Northern Israel / Southern Lebanon detail removed

[Ebphoto]

42 minutes ago, themastrofall said:

You have the audacity to call it indignation when you remove something that has been paid and utilized for a whole year now? Because another 3rd Party Dev complained... yeah way to stand up for yourselves and your consumers, you're just as cheap as the next guy and have the audacity to come after the consumer when you took a 0 communication approach. Get off your high horse, you're working a game that you're helping to push into the grave with PR like this. Laughable joke, poor executive leadership, get a spine next time another 3rd party Dev complains and communicate with your consumers. Indignation.

@NineLinewhen we spoke at Expo you told me that there was a promising update for Sinai, i understand yall couldnt have anticipated this but come on. Thats a kick in the chin man

Why the negativity dude? Relax! It’s in Early Acess and you can still see all this in the Syria map! Go look at all the other additions they’ve don. I mean Jerusalem looks awesome and the new airports are great. There’s so much cool good stuff added that this shouldn’t be a concern! They’ll get it worked out! Shi&t happens. Relax and take a chill pill. Try and stay positive man these things happen, especially in Early Access! Maybe you shouldn’t purchase EA products and just wait for the release if these things upset you! Stay positive man!

[jojojung]

After all these dispute with Razbam and all the money we put in all these modules with no more progress, this time its enough for me. 
Can we get a refund for Sinai?
I'm getting the impression that if ED doesnt resolve these problems with 3. party developers very fast, it will be the collapse of the whole DCS universum. 
That is in no ones favor...

[SignorMagnifico]

47 minutes ago, themastrofall said:

You have the audacity to call it indignation when you remove something that has been paid and utilized for a whole year now? Because another 3rd Party Dev complained... yeah way to stand up for yourselves and your consumers, you're just as cheap as the next guy and have the audacity to come after the consumer when you took a 0 communication approach. Get off your high horse, you're working a game that you're helping to push into the grave with PR like this. Laughable joke, poor executive leadership, get a spine next time another 3rd party Dev complains and communicate with your consumers. Indignation.

@NineLinewhen we spoke at Expo you told me that there was a promising update for Sinai, i understand yall couldnt have anticipated this but come on. Thats a kick in the chin man

I agree with you. 
 

I don’t think Ugra has the right to change their minds a year after the fact. The map was already approved like it was. Ugra, ED, and OnReTech knew about the overlap from DAY ONE. They don’t have the right to bully another third party. OnReTech should have run to ED right away. These disputes SHOULD go through ED and not between the third parties. I also don’t think OnReTech has the right to remove features customers already paid for. This is a violation of the agreement they had with paying customers who already bought the map. Imagine if Hellfires get removed from the Kiowa because another dev has a module that shoots Hellfires and doesn’t like it.

[Thump]

9 minutes ago, Ebphoto said:

Thank you for the update on this! There’s so much added to this map like Jerusalem and a TON of other things I hand t even noticed this happened. It’s not a big deal since this portion of the map is on the Syria map for now. Hopefully you guys can include it in the next update. Thank you for all the other things you’ve done to make this map totally awesome! People need to mellow out a little and stop the negativity being spread. It’s in Early Access so these things happen. Give them a break and go enjoy ALL the additional airports, oil rigs, harbors and a ton of other things!! It really is a fantastic map with so many places to see and make missions in! I was blown away when I saw what you’ve added and Jerusalem looks fantastic! So again thank you!

Wow 

[rob10]

First off: I really liked the Sinai map we've had for the last year and it's been one of my favs despite the fact that it has some issues.  And while it was annoying, I was willing to accept the really long wait for the update because I had faith that there would be a lot of updates/fixes included.  Unfortunately, it seems they have taken that time to build new objects/eyecandy etc (which is great, no one is going to complain they exist), but haven't bothered to spend time fixing the basic items that make so much more difference to actually flying (i.e. navaids, bridges) and would have improved the map much more than the new objects/airports.  Given the time that was being taken, it was my expectation that this polishing was what was going on, but apparently I was wrong in that assumption.

I don't know the reasons for pulling part of the detailed Isreal area (a dispute with Urga or licensing issue with another outside party on base data are both plausible) but ORT has seriously damaged it's reputation by taking a year to put out a patch which was mostly added eye candy with very little fixing AND THEN not informing your customers you were removing part of the map (more so if ORT was already planning that this was only going to be a temporary removal).  I might not have liked it, but it wouldn't have hurt your reputation with me if you'd been up front.  I'm willing to see things from both sides and understand what I want might not be what's going to happen for legitimate reasons, but in this case you've moved me from a "promoter" and "defender" of this map to an unhappy customer.  I no longer have faith that ORT is going to fix/improve the little things that have so much more impact day to day than "fancy new eye candy".

[SignorMagnifico]

Just now, jojojung said:

After all these dispute with Razbam and all the money we put in all these modules with no more progress, this time its enough for me. 
Can we get a refund for Sinai?
I'm getting the impression that if ED doesnt resolve these problems with 3. party developers very fast, it will be the collapse of the whole DCS universum. 
That is in no ones favor...

Yep. I feel the same way. I don’t see growing pains. I hear a death rattle.

[Moxica]

Very disturbing how the level of professionalism has been declining as of lately.
Damage control? Anyone?
No?

[Temetre]

I only own Syria, love that map, dont care too much about Sinai (tho it looks cool with last update).

Even then, if its true Ugra demanded a removal, then thats just gross. Its a hostile action against all ED customers that bought Sinai, and even beyond that it removes even more trust from EDs eco system. 

 

At this point im hardly even motivated to play DCS anymore. So much BS going on everywhere.

Edited August 10, 2024 by Temetre

[Miro]

Hatzerim Airforce museum also been removed, now there's a factory. Also look at northern part of Jordan near Israeli border, map textures are blurry, an some cities dissapear too...

[Temetre]

On a general note, why would anyone even care about this overlap? Sinai cant do Israel vs Syria/Lebanon, Syria cant do Israel vs Egypt. Remove (or partially cut) Israel from either map and you remove the main combat scenario.

[gnomechild]

1 hour ago, Bareqk said:

fact is they didnt even remove the overlapping, the maps still overlap... syria goes as low as middle israel, OnRetech cutted much higher then what ugra has moddeled

Don't tell them that we'll lose even more

[Pipe]

9 minutes ago, Temetre said:

I only own Syria, love that map, dont care too much about Sinai (tho it looks cool with last update).

Even then, if its true Ugra demanded a removal, then thats just gross. Its a hostile action against all ED customers that bought Sinai, and even beyond that it removes even more trust from EDs eco system. 

 

At this point im hardly even motivated to play DCS anymore. So much BS going on everywhere.

 

Agreed pretty much a tire fire at this point, does not look like much interest in fixing it either

[speed-of-heat]

I am disappointed that this dispute between developers was not deconflicted before a release was made (even early access) there should be a very clear scope for maps... I am upset that the communication failure by the developer caught ED and us by surprise, that is unacceptable behaviour for a developer to introduce a major change and not document it. 

 

10 minutes ago, Temetre said:

On a general note, why would anyone even care about this overlap? Sinai cant do Israel vs Syria/Lebanon, Syria cant do Israel vs Egypt. Remove (or partially cut) Israel from either map and you remove the main combat scenario.

This

[MysteriousHonza]

Well, this means one thing. DO NOT BUY ANYTHING IN EA ON ED SHOP OR STEAM... 
Always wait for full release thats protected by buyer rights atleast in EU. 
What they did with the map is borderline illegal to do and they should offer MONEY refunds on both ED site and steam. 
They literally stole money from us by removing portion of product. The moment you buy even EA product, you buy its current form. You are not entitled to get more but they CANT remove parts without monetary compensation. 

[jojojung]

When the DCS eco system is collapsing no one will buy syria map anymore. So it was a perfect owngoal from the syria devs. 
And who cares about the overlap? You cant play Israel vs Syria in the Sinai map and you cant play Isreal vs Egypt on the Syria map. 
Why the **** are they risking such a lost of trust? 
Just think about the unsolved RAZBAM dispute. The Syria devs are stressing the eco system to its limits for nothing!

[captain_kaoss]

I own both the Syria and Sinai maps as they serve different purposes in the missions that I create. If Ugra has forced the removal of the Northern part of OnReTech's Sinai map then I will not purchase another Ugra product. If Ugra has had no part in the change to OnReTech's Sinai map then I would appreciate a comment from them to confirm. None of this situation is positve for the DCS paying customer community

[BarTzi]

1 hour ago, munckmb said:

Without Ramat David, Haifa and South Lebanon, I would not have bought this map. 

Ramat David was never a part of this map

[Lord Reaver]

I don´t usually post, but I think this is unacceptable, and at least should have been announced before the patch release!!

[PinkCube]

1 hour ago, cfrag said:

IMHO, what we are witnessing is growing pains. This isn't the first internal dispute that has become an embarrassing public spectacle in the past 6 months, and it can happen if a company and their associates grow and are successful (which is good), and the way they work together can't adapt to new common requirements (which is bad), resulting in a decided lack of oversight. What ensues are squabbles (over money and personalities of course), and they boil to the surface, shaking the confidence of all customers into ED and their products.

I'm hoping that ED and their partners get together, hash out their differences, and allow the grown-ups to steer the newly forged, larger whole into less turbulent waters. What we are seeing does not look professional, and to many people (me included) perception is reality. The current reality seems bewildering to me, does not inspire confidence and makes me sad. Communication with customers has been the Achilles Heel for some time now, and maybe this can be the point where ED and their partners see the urgency of getting a significantly better grasp on customer communication and internal alignment with all partners. Customers want to hear ED and their partners speak with one voice, clear, and inspiringly. 

Here's to having a better second half of 2024. 

This isn't growing pains. This is being hit by a truck, finally coming back to consciousness and realising all your limbs are broken one by one as you try to get back up. 

[Pipe]

13 minutes ago, Lord Reaver said:

I don´t usually post, but I think this is unacceptable, and at least should have been announced before the patch release!!

I disagree, any annoucement would not change the Train Wreck that this is..

[Rhinozherous]

8 hours ago, OnReTech said:

Do not be so categorical and hasty in your conclusions.
We can't always do what we want

Sorry, what do you expect when things get removed - without ANY announcement, in times of the razbam desaster... Customers feel of course cheated.

[XCNuse]

14 hours ago, NineLine said:

The map is by a 3rd Party, we do not review or control their changes. The patch notes are supplied by the 3rd Party. This was a surprise to us as well, hence we are asking for info as well. 

So which is it? Is it internal or is it 3rd party???

null

 

I'm getting extremely tired of ED pointing fingers this year. I'm about done being a customer for good.

Edited August 10, 2024 by XCNuse

[Torndo78]

9 minutes ago, Rhinozherous said:

Customers feel of course cheated.

"feel", It's not a feeling, it's a reality

Edited August 10, 2024 by Torndo78

[Mastodon2]

Absolutely disgraceful behaviour that spits in the face of OneReTech's customers. Ugra Media look terrible too, dirtying their own reputation in the process of this grubby little debacle. 

ED need to sit the parties down and work out a solution quickly (here's a freebie, let both maps have the entirety of Israel, problem soived!). This is yet another embarrassing happening in a saga of incidents that damages ED's reputation and credibility. I understand that ED let third party devs down their own things, but when backroom squabbles lead to customers having their purchased products deliberately degraded, it makes ED look like they have no control of the overall product that is DCS World. As customers looking on, it looks like the clowns are running the circus and ED can only stand by and watch the fires raging out of control.

ED need to make an official statement soon with an action plan, detailing what happened and why and what will be done about it. End the speculation that is driving customers to seek refunds and  actively discouraging new players from joining your game. 

I know several people who were looking at getting into DCS but declined after seeing the RAZBAM / ED fallout earlier this year, with expensive modules falling apart in the hands of customers, with RAZBAM unwilling or unable to work on the modules and ED unable to offer any sort of effective support to keep the modules running. Imagine if those potential new customers, needing assurance to overcome their trepidation to try DCS World (it's an expensive hobby, after all!) found that map makers can delete portions of maps and degrade them at the whim of another 3rd party publisher, with no warning to the customer and as yet, no explanation of how and when the map will be restored, or how customers can apply for refunds.

[Blaine Stars]

Guys, look at the changelog. It looks like it was a mistake, not intentional.

Look at these two improvements, they are related to Israel. Why on earth would they delete something they improved? It doesn't make sense. It seems to me that they made a mistake in one area, it's the intern's fault.

*Added 2 types of acacia bushes for the south of Israel
*Improved trees on mountains in Israel