How Did I Kill My Engine?

[Tea-Pig]

I just updated from 2.9.6 to 2.9.9 and was hopeful for a fix for the apparently long standing Dora engine random failure issue. The changelog for 2.9.8 claims:

• Fixed: Random engine failures (adjustments to oil system)

and in a recent thread here @NineLine said:

"This should be fixed now, thanks. "

Out of three flights, two ended in spurious engine failure in the usual fashion: oil suddenly overheats and engine dies. So alas, no apparent change for me. How is everyone else doing?

[Doughguy]

Please post tracks.

 

So far i didnt have had engine failures in the same way it was before.

Usually mine broke even cruising at 2500 and then increasing throttle.

 

Combat overheat can happen if you fly below 300kph at full power for too long.

Edited November 5, 2024 by Doughguy

[Tea-Pig]

I think I perhaps see my issue. In a hot start or air start mission, when I first spawn into the cockpit the MW50 circuit breaker is on, but when I click the 'Fly' button to begin the mission the breaker immediately pops out. So I fly believing MW50 is engaged but it's actually disabled, hence the engine failures. I'm surprised I didn't notice immediately, but I think the engine sound has been tweaked a bit so this might have masked it. Since noticing this and pushing the circuit breaker back in at mission start I haven't had any unexplained failures.

Feeling hopeful.  

[Tea-Pig]

Not feeling hopeful now. Another failure and track attached. The failure event starts just about 10 seconds into the track. The rear fuel tank light flashes and there is a momentary drop in engine RPM. The oil temperature immediately starts to climb and engine is toasted shortly after.

1.trk

[Doughguy]

I cant seem to open you track file for some reason.

Usually mw50 is in OFF position per default. The Swith appears to be in the middle. ON is to the front.

The rear tank light flashing is usually because you pull negative g / do a nose over once your press "play" and start in the air.

[Lixma 06]

Air start, engage MW-50 - engine blows after 1 min 45 secs.

 

Fw-190D-9 engine blown.trk

[Hobel]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Lixma 06:

Air start, engage MW-50 - engine blows after 1 min 45 secs.

 

Fw-190D-9 engine blown.trk 1.05 MB · 2 Downloads

The problem with Air start we cannot say exactly what is going on  here, the oil does not seem to be optimally warm yet, which could trigger the error.
but that's just my first guess

[Doughguy]

The Dora Engine is still bugged. 
It just died for me for no apparent reason.

https://1drv.ms/u/c/153140320d8bd7a3/EWErDnXQhVNBnOdQR4DzuQ0BPu3zGvFkg7RcUcSA_Y2gGg?e=JexmQw
Track.

Engine warm up as per manual, climb with 3000 rpm, 400kph, then cruise at 7k at 2500rpm. after a fight, with no noticable damage, i started to climb again, from roughly 2000 when suddenly the engine simply sounded like its got no more fuel. all swell. power drop, engine stopped, THEN oiltemps went high.
Made a belly lending after few mins of flight and only then right before touchdown the coolant started to evaporate...

Its getting frustrating, that this plane has had its engine bugged and "fixed" 4 times in a row now and its still bugged....

dcs 2.9.11.4686
 

@BIGNEWY @Hobel

dcs.log

Edited January 12 by Doughguy

[Tea-Pig]

Yes, still bugged here too. Momentary drop in RPM/power and then the oil immediately overheats. Throttle setting and engine use seem not to be a factor. If I'm at high altitude then I can glide for a considerable time after the engine quits but the oil temperature never drops. The MW50 breaker thing I mentioned above is not relevant and seems to have gone back to normal. Maybe I had some spurious keybinding.

I have a dual throttle and seem to get just about tolerable reliability by binding the cowl flaps to the second lever so that they open as the throttle is increased, but it might just be placebo effect.

I doubt if we'll ever see a real fix for this. ED have had several apparently half-hearted attempts, and we all know where their real focus is. Perhaps the best we can do is consider it "historically accurate". Engines built with slave labour probably weren't very reliable. At least the A8 is vaguely usable again as long as it's in bright sunshine. Another half-hearted fix it seems.

[MiGCap1]

I never had any problems with my Dora engine. Usually I operate it steadily at 3000rpm and go to full max for combat. The MW50 I use very, very rarely as the Dora is fast enough without (and because I often forget how long I already have engaged it. Which causes problems which do not relate to any bug in the game but only to my dumbness ...).

[LeCuvier]

The engine is just fine here. When I engage into a turning fight, it runs at full power with MW-50 for long periods of time and it does not die on me.

[Doughguy]

Again, it didnt die on me since the last update for quite a while. 2 times now. And both times, i ran it at 2500 rpm.

Before the updates, the bug appeared more often.

I fly the D9 basically every day.

So yeah, its rare now, but still happens. I dont even use mw50.

[percivaldanvers]

Hello all,

I just had a mission in which my engine quit on a return flight across the channel. I was surprised because I was flying at 2800 RPM to conserve fuel for the return journey, which should be well below continuous power. I wasn't going really fast, but I was definitely not going so slow that the engine would overheat from lack of air flow. Nevertheless, the temps got over 110 C and stayed there. 

I'm wondering if anyone can give me any insight as to why the engine was overheating, and what I could do to stop it. I'm not saying anything is a bug here - more of a "what did I do wrong and how can I learn from it" type of thing.

I did play through the track and take control to try manipulating the thermostat knob, but I accidentally turned it the wrong way and immediately killed the engine. I've attached the track, but it is quite long. Really the main info is in the below screenshots of the aircraft and instrument panel minutes before the engine failure. 

 

why did my engine overheat.trk

[peachmonkey]

7 minutes ago, percivaldanvers said:

I did play through the track and take control to try manipulating the thermostat knob, but I accidentally turned it the wrong way

yeah, D9's engine is pretty finicky and buggy. It operates at the maximum allowed temperature for the maximum power efficiency, and it seems the damage modeling for it is unforgiving. When you played with the thermostat knob you've closed the automatic radiator cowling, which led to the immediate temperature increase, and after a few seconds the damage to the engine is irreversible. Just don't play with it, or be sure when you're playing with it you're actually opening the cowling and not closing (sometimes it's useful if your engine water jacket got a bullet hole and you need to extend the life of the dying engine).

[percivaldanvers]

13 minutes ago, peachmonkey said:

yeah, D9's engine is pretty finicky and buggy. It operates at the maximum allowed temperature for the maximum power efficiency, and it seems the damage modeling for it is unforgiving. When you played with the thermostat knob you've closed the automatic radiator cowling, which led to the immediate temperature increase, and after a few seconds the damage to the engine is irreversible. Just don't play with it, or be sure when you're playing with it you're actually opening the cowling and not closing (sometimes it's useful if your engine water jacket got a bullet hole and you need to extend the life of the dying engine).

Yeah my general rule of thumb is to totally avoid even touching it. In this case I had run through every other option I could think of to get the temperature down. 

[Doughguy]

 

 

and

 

https://discord.com/channels/542985647502393346/1328012547848278067

 

 

[NineLine]

14 hours ago, percivaldanvers said:

Yeah my general rule of thumb is to totally avoid even touching it. In this case I had run through every other option I could think of to get the temperature down. 

Something odd is going on because I can overheat the engine to where steam is pouring out, then take action to cool it down and continue on so its less about management and more about some sort of odd bug, all the tracks I can get, and the shorter the better appreciated. Thanks.

[percivaldanvers]

8 hours ago, NineLine said:

Something odd is going on because I can overheat the engine to where steam is pouring out, then take action to cool it down and continue on so its less about management and more about some sort of odd bug, all the tracks I can get, and the shorter the better appreciated. Thanks.

Interesting! I will see if I can recreate the issue on a shorter track - thanks for looking into it! 

[MAD-MM]

On 1/22/2025 at 4:10 AM, percivaldanvers said:

Interesting! I will see if I can recreate the issue on a shorter track - thanks for looking into it! 

didnt watch the track, when you say 110 deg you mean the oil temp? the red gauge? the dora didnt have seperate oil cooler, the oil is cooled over the water circulation.
ofc they aimed for the highest poosible temp in the water coolant circulation to keep the radiator shuter closed as maximum as possible to reduced drag and higher speeds.
Thermostat in the water coolant in the automatic modus is allways aiming for 100 degree water temperature.
Oil Temp up to 130 Celcius is normal in the Dora at climb power radiator in the flushed position (slightly open)

The engine goes completly crazy in a unrealistic way when you touch the radiator shutter control is true.

 

Edited January 23 by MAD-MM

[Tea-Pig]

Thanks for the confirmation that there is some sort of bug @NineLine. The best track I can give is the one I posted earlier and is repeated here. It's short and sweet: failure with all the usual symptoms at about 17 seconds in. I have others, but since the track recorder isn't very accurate it's a lottery whether it will get to the engine fail before being shot down by AI doing something completely different to when the track was recorded.

I've had failures at full throttle with MW50 and at under 2500 rpm loitering throttle. I have not been able to see any definite pattern, although cruising at moderate throttle following a period of full power dogfighting seems to be a common failure point. It starts with a momentary power loss (which I can feel in my motion rig) which triggers the oil to overheat suddenly, and the engines dies shortly after.

1.trk