A2A Refueling....

[Ghostmaker]

My god isnt it hard.... ai makes it look easy.. any tips for the f16.. i fly the fa18 and really enjoying the f16

[speed-of-heat]

If can refuel the hornet, the only difference is the diector lights focus on them stabilise one at a time 

[Ghostmaker]

2 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

If can refuel the hornet, the only difference is the diector lights focus on them stabilise one at a time 

That sounds alot easier than done lol, difference is i actually cant see the boom v's the fuel filler hole on the f16 so cant get a visual of how far away i am from the boom.

[speed-of-heat]

That’s what the director lights are for…  just like you don’t look at the basket… don’t look at the boom, it’s not your responsibility… 

[Ghostmaker]

Ill keep trying haha

[AndyJWest]

1 minute ago, speed-of-heat said:

That’s what the director lights are for…  just like you don’t look at the basket… don’t look at the boom, it’s not your responsibility… 

It would help if the lights weren't almost invisible.

[Tom Kazansky]

...and if the contact were a contact.

[Czar66]

1. Approach the boom at the same height of your pilot POV after 'clear pre contact' message received from the tanker.
2. Once the boom moves to point at the refueling door, change reference to the reference lights/deviation lights.
3. Align first the up/down deviation lights to its middle/neutral.
4. Approach slowly until the longitudinal lights gets into the middle/neutral position.
5. Stick to both lights at neutral for a bit and the boom will automatically connect.
6. Always reference the yellow painted line bellow the tanker to center the aircraft.
7. Tiny inputs on throttle at a time while giving time for the consequences of each input to take place.
8. You have a bit of play after each lights maximum deviation but take small actions to keep on middle.

From what I can tell from memory.

AAR is fun. Pleasurable. Enriching... and still is over simplified at the current state.
Once you 'get it' it becomes second nature.

8 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

It would help if the lights weren't almost invisible.

A little zoom command can help, even though the lights are overly dim. Sadly. Put it is possible.

Edited Monday at 06:53 PM by Czar66

[Ghostmaker]

4 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

It would help if the lights weren't almost invisible.

Tell me about it haha in vr your on the edge of your seat with suspense

2 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

1. Approach the boom at the same height of your pilot POV after 'clear pre contact' message received from the tanker.
2. Once the boom moves to point at the refueling door, change reference to the reference lights/deviation lights.
3. Align first the up/down deviation lights to its middle/neutral.
4. Approach slowly until the longitudinal lights gets into the middle/neutral position.
5. Always reference the yellow painted line bellow the tanker to center the aircraft.
6. Tiny inputs on throttle at a time while giving time for the consequences of each input to take place.

From what I can tell from memory.

AAR is fun. Pleasurable. Enriching... and still is over simplified at the current state.
Once you 'get it' it becomes second nature.

A little zoom command can help, even though the lights are overly dim. Sadly. Put it is possible.

I set the way points really far apart and he still managed to start turning the race track just when i were getting closer lol.. ill have to try and follow this however the lights arent very bright

[Czar66]

4 minutes ago, Ghostmaker said:

Tell me about it haha in vr your on the edge of your seat with suspense

Forgot about VR:\ No zoom command there.
ED needs to step up the AAR visual references and quality indeed.

5 minutes ago, Ghostmaker said:

I set the way points really far apart and he still managed to start turning the race track just when i were getting closer lol.. ill have to try and follow this however the lights arent very bright

Best of luck!

[Ghostmaker]

Just now, Czar66 said:

Forgot about VR:\ No zoom command there.
ED needs to step up the AAR visual references and quality indeed.

Best of luck!

Yeah that would be helpful. 

Cheers mate

[Furiz]

Just get set up correctly under the tanker and the boom operator will connect, easier than hornet imo.

[speed-of-heat]

38 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

It would help if the lights weren't almost invisible.

KC-135 Tanker Improved PDL Lights

[TobiasA]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Ghostmaker:

My god isnt it hard.... ai makes it look easy.. any tips for the f16.. i fly the fa18 and really enjoying the f16

Before sliding into position, point your gun cross on the tip of the boom, and stabilise it there for a few seconds. Then slide forward.

[Ghostmaker]

Some great advice here, what speed do you find best for AAR?

Also i need a mod manager to move all my mods into whats the best and where do you put that mod for the PDL lights?

[UncleStains]

All good advice here. When I was learning it helped to listen to music or a podcast. It occupied the part of my peanut-sized brain that was making me overshoot and allowed instinct to take over.

[Ghostmaker]

1 minute ago, UncleStains said:

All good advice here. When I was learning it helped to listen to music or a podcast. It occupied the part of my peanut-sized brain that was making me overshoot and allowed instinct to take over.

Good idea does heavy metal work lol. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

KC-135 Tanker Improved PDL Lights

Yeah I've been using that for quite a while too  

 

3 hours ago, Ghostmaker said:

My god isnt it hard

Not really, but it requires practice. When I learned to do it many many moons ago, I might have "accidentally" (*cough*) discharged some 20-mike-mike into the odd tanker here and there out of sheer frustration.
Keep going, and practice

[YoYo]

3 hours ago, Ghostmaker said:

My god isnt it hard.... ai makes it look easy.. any tips for the f16.. i fly the fa18 and really enjoying the f16

Practice makes perfect :). Here you have it while turning and at night. That's a challenge

 

Edited Monday at 09:34 PM by YoYo

[Ghostmaker]

6 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Yeah I've been using that for quite a while too  

 

Not really, but it requires practice. When I learned to do it many many moons ago, I might have "accidentally" (*cough*) discharged some 20-mike-mike into the odd tanker here and there out of sheer frustration.
Keep going, and practice

Haha ive been close to shooting her down with frustration. Do you set the hotas axis up at all to calm movement down? I wantbthe jet to be snappy and reactive but tjats not what ypu want whem refueling

4 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Practice makes perfect :). Here you have it while turning and at night. That's a challenge

 

Show off lol

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

4 minutes ago, Ghostmaker said:

Do you set the hotas axis up at all to calm movement down?

I found there to be no need in the F-16, since you're in reduced gain already if you have the refuelling door open. The hardest part is actually throttle control because of the lack of physics (interaction between the boom and your aircraft).
When I learned aerial refuelling only the M-2000 was available and yes initially I reduced axis sensitivity until I got more used to my setup.

[RyanR]

23 hours ago, TobiasA said:

Before sliding into position, point your gun cross on the tip of the boom, and stabilise it there for a few seconds. Then slide forward.

 

I noticed this myself a while back! It helps a bunch! Put the flight path marker on the horizon once you get your "height" squared away. 

 

23 hours ago, Ghostmaker said:

Some great advice here, what speed do you find best for AAR?

 

 

Tanker gives you speed in IAS but your HUD reads off in CAS. This is important. I remember wishing I had a radar gun to get the tanker's speed.... then realized that there's a very expensive radar gun on the front of fighter jets. Use this. The tanker is AI, it doesn't care it you lock it up (just don't blow it up!) in A-A or dogfight mode. The radar will then give you both the tanker's speed and closure rate (and distance!). 

Another trick that helped getting the mental picture was to turn head tracking off. This will let you use the edge of your monitor as you might use the canopy frame on another jet. 

Put a moderate ordnance load on the jet. A slick F-16 is really hard to refuel since it accelerates like crazy and then doesn't slow down.  Rather than try to get your speed exactly right, it's OK to ping pong between the fore-aft position indicators with choppy throttle work. 

Practice is everything. And screaming into your headset.

-Ryan

[Exorcet]

On 7/28/2025 at 2:39 PM, Ghostmaker said:

That sounds alot easier than done lol, difference is i actually cant see the boom v's the fuel filler hole on the f16 so cant get a visual of how far away i am from the boom.

You don't need to see it. The nice thing about boom refueling is that you only need to get into place and then the boom operator does the rest of the work. Granted DCS's boom operator can be a bit eccentric, but you can get it to work most of the time.

Start with the approach to the tanker. Don't come in too fast, you want to nicely settle into a speed close to the tanker's starting from a couple of miles out. When you get closer try to match the tanker's speed before connecting. This will let you reference your engine fuel flow and use it as a guide for your throttle. I find this easier than trying to set a specific speed.

You can also get your fuel amount to show up on the DED by pressing LIST > 2. With that you won't need to move your head around as much and can keep an eye on the tanker.

[MeanJim]

It's been a while since I did AAR in the F-16.  I personally found it easier to zoom out a bit and not even focus on the lights.  I got to where I could do it consistently.  When training in my own personal mission, I would top off on the tanker before landing.  I got a bit rusty because I started learning the F/A-18.  I find the 18 is easy to AAR.  It seems more forgiving.  My first attempt I hooked up and took a full load without a disconnect.

I bounce back and forth between the two.  When I come back to the F-16 it takes me a few times to get back to where I cad do it, but when going back to the F/A-18 I have no problem.