Flying non lead

[rweaves6]

Hi guys, sorry if this has been asked but it's a tough one to search...

 

Will we be able to fly #2 (or 3,4...) in a flight in the offline campaign?

 

I saw in GA's promo the cockpit view flying formation and was wondering if that was offline footage?

 

Thanks

[arality]

If I remember correctly, in the promo video's credits he thanks someone else for flying with him. So I assume all the formation shots were done in multiplayer.

 

I am also assuming it will be just like Blackshark is. You will be flight lead unless the mission designer puts you else where.

[Святой]

Player will be a flight leader only. Not a wingmen.

[rweaves6]

Player will be a flight leader only. Not a wingmen.

 

Shame. Us "offliners" are clearly a dwindling community. The ability to fly on someone's wing is an essential function and requirement of a combat flight sim and of a combat fighter pilot.

 

It appears that offline content is falling to the low priority pile. Surely I'm not alone on this.

[Jinro]

You're not the only one being frustrated by seeing everything go online. I don't have the time to sit in a room and wait for people to join the game. I have zero tolerance for lag. I have zero tolerance for screwing around. And the parts I hate most about online gaming are talking to strangers, and most of those strangers being either a) smack-talking jerks or b) stupid little kids.

[ralfidude]

I remember on the DCS Blackshark, the first mission, was a familiarization of the terrain, where the AI was lead and flying through telling you whats what, and when and where to turn, that was fun!

 

Too bad they didnt implement that here... :(

[Jinro]

There's also "A Visit to the Port" mission in FC2 where you fly lead of a 2-ship formation that is following a lead 2-ship formation.

 

I'm sure it would work in the original LOMAC. As I recall, your AI wingman would takeoff without you. In FC2, they just sit on the taxiway and block you from getting on the runway and won't takeoff unless you do first.

[topdog]

I remember on the DCS Blackshark, the first mission, was a familiarization of the terrain, where the AI was lead and flying through telling you whats what, and when and where to turn, that was fun!

 

Too bad they didnt implement that here... :(

 

Yeah that mission was a good start but it put me off joining multiplayer for a while.. I'd sometimes blink and lose sight of the guy or come near to crashing him and from that felt for quite some time I'd just be a liability :D

 

It's good to have missions that, like that one, try to set your pace rather than give you full control over it. Normally you can do what you like until you're out of gas, but missions like that, some escorts/chases, or timely intercepts make for some fun challenges AND easier narratives. When time is a factor, you're acting with more purpose. Just don't overdo it and make it too hard/frustrating and it's a golden mission.. I presume it won't stop us from making missions like that :)

[hassata]

Can u edit or create missions to add elements which you can fly wing on? Or do the AI pilots use different flight models making it a frustrating exercise ala il-2

[Druid_]

Can u edit or create missions to add elements which you can fly wing on?

Yes you can. You could even set triggers so that the AI leader will communicate with you at specific times. The problem is that depending on the threats near the target area, the AI can be a bit unpredictable at times (or he's doing the right thing and running away bravely). So in the ME it would be worth programming a split between you and the AI near the target and RTB solo, unless you can find and catch him. Having said that, the new ME might have a few commands which will allow you to put him in a holding pattern until you join up after the attack run.

 

Or do the AI pilots use different flight models making it a frustrating exercise ala il-2

I would imagine that the AI in another a10c will have the same flight modelling as the players aircraft.

[nomdeplume]

The game doesn't support a player-controlled aircraft in anything but the #1 (flight lead) slot of a flight. The missions where you fly "as a wingman" you are actually in a separate group. Your "flight leader" is essentially unaware of your existence. It won't give you orders to attack a particular target etc. because you're not part of their flight.

 

I would imagine the reason this has been neglected in the games is because a) most people probably want to fly as leader, and would only use 'flying as a wingman' while learning and b) the AI would have to be improved a lot for it to be able to sort and assign targets to a human player.

 

I do miss this from e.g. Falcon 4, but even there - the AI flight leader often did weird things, made stupid decisions, etc. As a human pilot, having a foolish wingman is one thing, but being ordered to perform foolish or suicidal tasks is especially annoying.

 

So basically, it's very difficult to implement well, and likely only used a little bit. So I can understand it being ignored.

 

On the other hand, good AI/human comms is a requirement for realistic two-seater operation in single-player, so hopefully one day it would become a priority and the geniuses at ED will surpass my pessimistic expectations.

[sobek]

I would imagine that the AI in another a10c will have the same flight modelling as the players aircraft.

 

That is very unlikely. I have not tested this myself, but for BS they were not able to create AI that could handle the FM properly. In general, AI planes use something on par with the general flight models in LO, if i'm not mistaken. Also helps reduce the CPU load.

[Druid_]

That is very unlikely. I have not tested this myself, but for BS they were not able to create AI that could handle the FM properly. In general, AI planes use something on par with the general flight models in LO, if i'm not mistaken. Also helps reduce the CPU load.

Yep, didnt think of that. Makes sense to keep the CPU load as low as possible.

 

I must say the flight modelling looked damned good in GAs video, especially in the turns and rolls.

[hassata]

That is very unlikely. I have not tested this myself, but for BS they were not able to create AI that could handle the FM properly. In general, AI planes use something on par with the general flight models in LO, if i'm not mistaken. Also helps reduce the CPU load.

 

Understandable but annoying. In Il-2 they could out climb and outrun you, in FC2 out turn you. Just wish they would err on the other side of the performance curve.

[Glowing_Amraam]

Um, not 1 single shot in my movie was done online. It's just me and the AI ;)

[Blaze]

Um, not 1 single shot in my movie was done online. It's just me and the AI ;)

That's what I like to hear! :D

[Haukka81]

Um, not 1 single shot in my movie was done online. It's just me and the AI ;)

 

 

Great! :smartass::thumbup:

[Succellus]

Um, not 1 single shot in my movie was done online. It's just me and the AI ;)

 

Nice to hear.

 

Its really annoying this part of the game is dying.

I enjoyed the UPPing in the IL2 series where you begin as a jhon nobody and have to prove yourself and survive.

 

I enjoyed F14 fleet defender being a wingman and surviving and getting up on the ranks.

 

I enjoy a lot being a wingman, especially because ai is bad anyway and werever you are it doesn t matter AI will screw up so why not leader.

 

But i understand in LO FC, wingmans couldn t even comply with an attack my target.

 

As leader the AI could for example give general instructions like attack OBJ, attack mud defenses, and leave us free in action. This would be awesome for getting the in and out of the plane without having to care much ordering a no so bright AI, and getting frustrated over it.

If the leader kills himself its not your fault :music_whistling:

[AndyHill]

It could make multiplayer setup much simpler if the AI could fly any position even adequately. I don't know if it's currently a factor, but it would really, really help mission creators if the AI could just take over all planes not flown by flesh & blood pilots.

[Nickhawk]

It could make multiplayer setup much simpler if the AI could fly any position even adequately. I don't know if it's currently a factor, but it would really, really help mission creators if the AI could just take over all planes not flown by flesh & blood pilots.

 

yeah like in falcon, just pick a flight, take lead position, 2.wing, 3.wing or 4.wingmen position and go.

Was often fun to let the AI lead and just follow the leader, most times the AI did an good jo as lead with human wingmen.

Or in Campaigns, it doesnt matter if you fly online, or offline, with other human players or only AI, every AI and every Human coud take every slot of a flight, that was amazing.

Hopefully in the future we could see similar things in DCS :)

Edited September 23, 2010 by Nickhawk

[ToWcH]

You're not the only one being frustrated by seeing everything go online. I don't have the time to sit in a room and wait for people to join the game. I have zero tolerance for lag. I have zero tolerance for screwing around. And the parts I hate most about online gaming are talking to strangers, and most of those strangers being either a) smack-talking jerks or b) stupid little kids.

 

flight sim community is much more mature than that of COD...

[Python]

My main interest in flight sims is formation flying, there is a great free tool for FSX called fsrecorder which allows you to record a flight and then play that aircraft back as traffic as you fly a second aircraft allowing for some great formation flights. Could a similar programme not be implimented into the DCS universe?

[hassata]

My main interest in flight sims is formation flying, there is a great free tool for FSX called fsrecorder which allows you to record a flight and then play that aircraft back as traffic as you fly a second aircraft allowing for some great formation flights. Could a similar programme not be implimented into the DCS universe?

 

PM if you'd like to try MP. I'm in the same boat and am thing of wading into online. FSX SF 260/l-39, F4:AF, and Su-25T.

[Deadman]

VTB all ready uses phantom on their server witch allows you to fallow 1 through the circuit so I am sure it could be done in DCS A-10C:thumbup: