Problem with Warthog Throttle

[Slammin]

bricked throttles sux... :)

 

RwlUQEo4Vc0

 

 

I agree. If my throttle bricked, I would have to figure out a new way to ramp start.

 

What bothers me is there sounds like some kind of notion coming from this thread that TM is a fly-by-night that is only out to rip folks off type of company. In my experience with their products, dating back to F16 and F22 and Cougar gear, and though not perfect in each case, all were well supported by not only TM, but also by the community (Bob Church's chips for instance) and have served me well.

 

I mean, this thread starts out pointing out the minimal lateral play in the throttle handles, as if TM has suddenly created a way to create a mechanical device that moves, with zero clearance, other than the clearance needed to move forward and backward. Silly. Where else do we expect such tolerances? Some folks read that and come away with "TM is sloppy/cheap". etc. Much to the contrary, at least in my case, the Hog is built better than I expected and better than any current offering. Heck, TM went more than a few steps above the Cougar when it comes to the Hog (switches and buttons, HALL), and that say's a lot.

 

Sure, we are using the first iterration of this HOTAS. Version 2.0 might correct some things, and improve others, but we are first adopters of this HOTAS too. Anyone feeling like they may be a beta tester should just wait for Version 2.0, me thinks.

[Cali]

What do you want to know that you can't figure it out yourself from these forums?

 

That a handful of ppl have had their throttle brick out of how many production releases? I don't know their figures but mine is at 4xxx already. Going back a few pages on this forum I struggled to find 10 ppl who have reported their throttle dying - if you can find a higher number, I'd gladly be corrected. Plus those ones that have bricked are commenting on several threads.

What % has actually bricked? Given that is it worth TM coming out and saying that a very tiny % has problems - if that were the case we'd need reps for every single product that's ever been manufactured. I'd understand if they had a 20% brick rate.. maybe even a 10% brick rate.. hell give me a 5% rate.

 

Thus it's easy to conclude that while there is a chance your throttle might brick it's a very, very minute one. The question then becomes: do you feel lucky, well do ya?

 

Even if yours does brick TM have proven that they're willing to replace it.

 

So there's your answer - it is an incident, albeit a very, very minor one. In the general scheme of things not worth really bringing to the attention of the board (sucks for us on a personal level). If you're one of the unlucky ones then contact us and we'll replace it.

 

What you fail to see is that these forums aren't the only people that bought warthog's. Think of the number sold and how many people play offline, and don't even know about these forums or other's. That is the problem, we have no idea how many are bricks and we will never know. That's why I would wait a few months at least to buy a new product to see what people are saying about it. The Warthog, I'd wait a long time before I bought one to make sure that things got fixed. I don't mind waiting 6-12 months as I have a good working HOTAS. I did buy the Cougar a few month back cause I have always liked it.

 

They may have sold over 4,000 units and about 10 people have complained here about their throttles being broke. Like I said above, what about the people that don't know about forums?

[WynnTTr]

What about the people don't know about the forums? They don't represent anything because they don't bring any evidence or data to the table. You're arguing that the failure rate is much higher based on what? People that don't post online? Thanks for making an argument out of nothing. I can do that too and say that 100% of non forum goers are perfectly happy with their purchase. I can't prove it and neither can you. See it does both ways.

 

I'm just going by some data that's been acquired (albeit hastily and roughly, but still better than nothing) from here and then SimHQ. At least that's a REAL figure to go by.

 

We only know of what we've been told here - and going from here and SimHQ that number is very small when compared to the number who bought the WH. Even if we discounted the serial numbers and just added up all the posts who have bought their WH v bricked throttle the failure rate is still small.

 

 

What you fail to see is that these forums aren't the only people that bought warthog's. Think of the number sold and how many people play offline, and don't even know about these forums or other's. That is the problem, we have no idea how many are bricks and we will never know. That's why I would wait a few months at least to buy a new product to see what people are saying about it. The Warthog, I'd wait a long time before I bought one to make sure that things got fixed. I don't mind waiting 6-12 months as I have a good working HOTAS. I did buy the Cougar a few month back cause I have always liked it.

 

They may have sold over 4,000 units and about 10 people have complained here about their throttles being broke. Like I said above, what about the people that don't know about forums?

[Cali]

I never said what a failure rate was. I'm sure people on these forums aren't the only ones that have had their throttles stop working. TM surely won't tell us what the rate is. Go by your real figure, I'll go by whatever I think. I don't have a Warthog and don't plan on buying one anytime in the near future. I truly hope they fix the problem. It's sad to pay $400-500 dollars for something that stops working within weeks or months. Then on top of that pay another $$ to have it shipped to them, that's BS, wouldn't you agree?

[WynnTTr]

I know you never said what the failure rate is but the implication is that the failure rate is much higher because of those that we don't know about - those that don't post on forums. I'm just saying you can't use that argument as there's no data whatsoever. I can counter by saying that for those that bricked and don't post on the forums about it, the same proportion of people who have it working perfectly exists v those that bricked. Surely you can see that's nonsensical.

 

And yeah, it is BS for us personally. I've already stated that. But using this site as a representation, it won't even register as an incident on TM's radar. You're right in that TM won't tell us anything - but you're assuming that's a bad thing. I see it that the actual figure is so small (even at 5% failure rate) that it's not worth mentioning. And again it's not like they're unwilling to replace the throttle.

 

For us personally though (third time I've said it) it's a tragedy. But it's not indicative of a widespread problem - going with what we know currently. Certainly not as widespread as some scaremongers would have us believe.

 

TM's not Apple and even their stuff has problems.

 

I never said what a failure rate was. I'm sure people on these forums aren't the only ones that have had their throttles stop working. TM surely won't tell us what the rate is. Go by your real figure, I'll go by whatever I think. I don't have a Warthog and don't plan on buying one anytime in the near future. I truly hope they fix the problem. It's sad to pay $400-500 dollars for something that stops working within weeks or months. Then on top of that pay another $$ to have it shipped to them, that's BS, wouldn't you agree?

[E-Rock]

I see it that the actual figure is so small (even at 5% failure rate) that it's not worth mentioning. And again it's not like they're unwilling to replace the throttle.

 

I'm sorry but I don't consider a 5% defect rate (I know it's not actual stat, just hypothetical) to be insignificant. That's 5 dead throttles for every 100 they produce. This is a premium product, for the price we're paying it's similar to buying a sports car, not a cheap Tata or Hyundai that you run into the ground and scrap. Can you imagine 5 out of every 100 Corvette ZR1 they roll off the assembly line suffer a terminal failure after 3-6 months time?

[WynnTTr]

Your argument ended when you admitted it was a hypothetical. The fact that you went on further to support it just shows your bias already and nothing I say will change your mind. That's ok, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

But like I said no product has a 100% success/manufacture rate. Well I can't think of any. Even non mechanical items have their defects. And I don't understand the sportscar analogy either. Just cos it's a premium product does not make it equal to a car, house whatever. Compare it to it's rivals.

[Maverick]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1000752&postcount=54

 

Dang, I was at least partly right..

[Succellus]

What about the people don't know about the forums? They don't represent anything because they don't bring any evidence or data to the table. You're arguing that the failure rate is much higher based on what? People that don't post online? .

 

Getting pissy heh ? better work your logic better.

Your 4XXX doesn t mean squat of people buying and not reporting here count for squat !

Want something like real number ? And you ll see number then become more relevant ?

You count the people that reported failure by the people that registered SN here. Guess what, it turns out to be unacceptable number for the industry, sorry for you, sorry for us.

 

TM has been suportive, my soft virgin rear end, they ve been helping not because they want, but because THEY MUST!!!! Get real.

If they where supportive they would approach post consuming in a diferent way, by instance not letting you wait a week without answer but a bot: Your call is very important to us, hang in, pay the bill phone, we don t care.

They would pay the full trip back to your home and not half the way as some reported.

Its teir product their failure based on their bad decisions, not ours.

 

Remember its not 4xxx solds its 4xxx on depots, if they don t do the minimum, they ll end up loosing any support and flop.

 

Again their not acting on good will, they are acting on a necessity.

 

So please stop this biased company defense, an look on the other side, your side... customer!!

[Cali]

WynnTTr, if a number of people are reporting them broke here, me being a logical person will think others out of say 4,000 sold are also broke. We don't have numbers and we can go back and forth all day long about this. We both have our own views and thoughts, we disagree with one another.

[Slammin]

How many brick and mortar stores carry the Hog? I've never seen the Hog advertised on TV. Where are all these mystery buyers that may have bad throttles but no Internet connection, so we assume they are out there, silently suffering?

 

Really, why are the folks that don't have a Hog so vocal in this thread? Even the folks that have experienced the issue aren't as vocal. I have not heard anyone with the issue bad mouth TM for their supposed lack of, or reluctant support.

[jerda]

The fact is that mine broke, so could yours. I'm out for a few weeks due to their problems. TM is sending me a 'new' one. How long it will last until it breaks again?

 

I wonder how many people with dead throttles would recommend a friend to buy one?

 

Here's my TM support complaint; Too Slow. It took them 1 week of pointless emails and phone calls, everyday, before they would give me an rma #. Seems like it all could have easily been sorted out in a day. (tho they did seem to be busy, hmm, with warthog customers?)

One of the girls said, "It must be nice, everyone over there is playing with their new 'toys' for christmas. - I laughed to myself, wondering what most of you guys would have said to that! :) TOYS?

[Cali]

How many brick and mortar stores carry the Hog? I've never seen the Hog advertised on TV. Where are all these mystery buyers that may have bad throttles but no Internet connection, so we assume they are out there, silently suffering?

 

Really, why are the folks that don't have a Hog so vocal in this thread? Even the folks that have experienced the issue aren't as vocal. I have not heard anyone with the issue bad mouth TM for their supposed lack of, or reluctant support.

 

Because they can be vocal, we are having fun talking it out.

[Succellus]

How many brick and mortar stores carry the Hog? I've never seen the Hog advertised on TV. Where are all these mystery buyers that may have bad throttles but no Internet connection, so we assume they are out there, silently suffering?

 

Really, why are the folks that don't have a Hog so vocal in this thread? Even the folks that have experienced the issue aren't as vocal. I have not heard anyone with the issue bad mouth TM for their supposed lack of, or reluctant support.

 

They have been vocal, you just choose to not read it that way. Some people are less assertive than others but the message is there.

The average TM policy is "Let the guy rot for a week, if he still cry RMA him"

Very friendly and supporting approach. And why the hell do we have to send the full brick ? Whats so precious inside ?

it sems to me they don t even know whats happening. We know they know exactly whats down. So for example why not let the complainer choose if the want to sell the defective piece or the whole stuff ? Assuming its possible.

And to top it they don t pay the whole fret ? WTF ?

[Slammin]

How can you tell me what way I chose to read something? And, where is your Hog? Also, are you looking at some kind of internal meno from TM stating to "Let the guy rot for a week"?

 

You are making my point though in that it appears those that do not even have the Hog are the most vocal. You are making some pretty strong accusations against TM too and I doub't you even own ANY TM products, much less have experienced their tech support.

 

The next time we, as a community, decide we are going to stick together and stick it to a company, think also about this genre we love so much and the very few companies out there willing to continue bringing us products, especially at the risk of being chastised and attacked to no end when things don't go perfect. And especially when those attacks are coming from the misinformed.

 

Finally, I would ask you pointedly, what to you hope your words produce?

[Succellus]

How can you tell me what way I chose to read something? And, where is your Hog? ?

 

Sometime its convenient to ignore facts

At custom waiting for release since 26/11

 

Also, are you looking at some kind of internal meno from TM stating to "Let the guy rot for a week"?

 

Do you need some, or all people reporting same behavior from TM ain t enought ?

 

You are making my point though in that it appears those that do not even have the Hog are the most vocal.

 

True inicially, i only showed concern but since some non customers like to defend bad companies behavior i meddled in to say "sc**w that".

 

You are making some pretty strong accusations against TM too and I doub't you even own ANY TM products, much less have experienced their tech support ?

 

I m making acusation yes, strong is only your POV, its a common practise to see if the dog drop your heels in post sales, i condemn any company that practise such not only TM.

I own a cougar, a RCS and a TM MFD set, and NEVER had i ANY answer however POLITE it was, not until it has the world BUY in it. I had to deal 6 times whith them, very expedient once the word BUY/ACQUIRE was in the form.

 

On all other matters, guess who answered and helped ? Yes! The comunity ! The customers have to do the work themselves because the company post sales policy seems to be GTFO of my heels.

By the way, where are the so promised stick TM promised whith its interchangeable handle ? MKT vaporware ?

 

And as you mentioned comunity, do you think if the customers (comunity is an aggregation of customers in this case) didnt answer to its own needs TM would have sold the cougar so much during so much time ? And under such conditions do you think they would realease the WT ? And people would buy it whith such emphasis ? IMNSHO on the subjet, i guess TM own his customers much, to be true, any company owns his customers his life so it should treat them better IMO.

You may be asking now why i ordered a TM WT from a company i m bashing so much from your point of view? (lol just stating they should have a post production testing, and should be eficient in their post sales service).

The answer is above, and in other threads, i trust the ingenuity of the aggregation of customers that seek solutions for their problems upon a "play dead" from the producers of the product. As simple as that.

 

The next time we, as a community, decide we are going to stick together and stick it to a company, think also about this genre we love so much and the very few companies out there willing to continue bringing us products, especially at the risk of being chastised and attacked to no end when things don't go perfect. And especially when those attacks are coming from the misinformed.

 

We who ? It seems you sticked to TM as an adoring fan, i, as a customer, stick to the company that bring the product that i think worthwile and that treat me well when i require support on the product bought, on which TM superbly failed at in the past, at least with me.

And this irrational fear of world ending ? Of doomsday. Guess what ? TM ain t the last one, its "just" one, and other people want to step in, like those guys with hydraulic FFB joy.

 

I respect companies that respect their customers as this very one owning this very forum, i had to recur to them 3 times, and beyond being fast and eficient they surprised me with excelence 2 of the 3 times. By excellence i mean solved the situation in a way way above my expectations.

 

Now i am asking too much ? If others can why can t TM ? Ain t that a valid question ?

Edited January 4, 2011 by Succellus

[Slammin]

You win.

[WynnTTr]

Too many walls of text I didn't bother reading it all. The fact is I was working from actual data acquired from this site and simhq.

Everyone else I've been arguing against loves to pull fictitious numbers and scenarios out of thin air. Sorry but without some form of hard data and evidence all it is is q lot of huff and puff and no substance.

 

Not going to change your minds. I'll just get back to flying with arguably the best hotas out there currently. If my throttle bricks, so what? I'll rma it and get another one.

[Midwestboi]

Dare I jump into the middle of this? LoL!

 

First, I read a comment a few pages back that there are no 'brick and mortar' stores selling the Warthog HOTAS- but in reality- there are, but they are selling it online (I bought mine from Walmart- 90 day return policy). ;-) The fact is, this is too big and too expensive to make shelf space for and clearly it is intended for a target audience- not mass market. But to say it isn't sold by reliable, brick and mortar stores isn't correct.

 

Second, instead of bickering so much about who is saying this or that, maybe we should focus on trying to narrow down the most likely culprit for the failure. Some throttles brick, other's don't... so are those that aren't having a problem doing something different than those who are bricking? That, in my opinion, is what we should be trying to figure out.

 

I've mentioned before about unplugging after use compared to those leaving them plugged in constantly- it could possibly be a USB electrical surge causing the problem. Things like this can help us narrow down the 'reasons' for the failure- instead of worrying so much about how many are failing and fighting amongst ourselves.

[El_Roto]

I've left my Warthog plugged into a powered USB hub (CyberPower) and after many reboots and shutdowns the throttle is still strong. Had it since Nov. 9.

[Teej]

Some throttles brick, other's don't... so are those that aren't having a problem doing something different than those who are bricking?

 

My default situation is, as it has been since I started testing the WH in May, with the WH throttle plugged into the USB hub that's part of my monitor (Dell 2408 WFP), and the stick plugged either into a powered hub or the motherboard. The monitor gets turned on and off several times per day.

 

That said, any combination you can think of in regards to plugging and power, I'm sure I've done it, plenty of times...either with my current EVGA motherboard or my old Asus core 2 duo rig. I spent a fair bit of time trying to cause mine to fail, taking notes along the way so if I got it to fail I could tell TM precisely what I had done and in what order. I've never been able to bring about anything like this throttle failure.

[Succellus]

So far we got:

Bricking, afaik, only happen with the throttle;

Bricking doesn t seem to be affected by firmware update, but firmware update solve other problems with similar to bricking symptoms;

The beta tester does not present the problem;

Bricking in an unknow % of the total, serial number not being a reliable number, and nobody wishing to count bricking/reported serial number. (really understandable);

There are been reported (1) bricking after power surge, throttle being only component affected;

No definitive conclusion if unpluging / letting plugged make a diference;

TM seems to be sending another throttle, with ? or without ? defect ?

 

Upon such, some guesses can be thrown:

Gross of the production doesn t seem to be affected by bricking;

Bricking only happen upon the mass produced product, Made in China;

Problem most probably related to power issues;

Main design doesn t seem to be the issue, probably due to a defective batch of a(some) component(s), probably on the Throttle PCB since TM is asking for the whole brivk,

As far as i can strech, thats it.

[Funkyjazz]

How much mili amps does the throttle use?

[Succellus]

ER? Without solution there arent any problem ?:confused:

 

Wouldn t it be :

 

Witohut problem there aren t any solution ?

 

As for your question IDK.

[Funkyjazz]

ER? Without solution there arent any problem ?:confused:

 

Wouldn t it be :

 

Witohut problem there aren t any solution ?

 

As for your question IDK.

 

When looking in the device manager at the USB section, you can see the milli ampere used by a device: Control Panel >> Device manager >> Universal serial bus controllers >> *Right click on the device* >> section Energy.