Problem with Warthog Throttle

[foxter26]

So far we got:

Bricking, afaik, only happen with the throttle;

Bricking doesn t seem to be affected by firmware update, but firmware update solve other problems with similar to bricking symptoms;

The beta tester does not present the problem;

Bricking in an unknow % of the total, serial number not being a reliable number, and nobody wishing to count bricking/reported serial number. (really understandable);

There are been reported (1) bricking after power surge, throttle being only component affected;

No definitive conclusion if unpluging / letting plugged make a diference;

TM seems to be sending another throttle, with ? or without ? defect ?

 

Upon such, some guesses can be thrown:

Gross of the production doesn t seem to be affected by bricking;

Bricking only happen upon the mass produced product, Made in China;

Problem most probably related to power issues;

Main design doesn t seem to be the issue, probably due to a defective batch of a(some) component(s), probably on the Throttle PCB since TM is asking for the whole brivk,

As far as i can strech, thats it.

nce I'm left in the dark by dealers and sub dealers regarding my dead throttle and I've got no RMA or support so far after quite a few emails (no telephones made yet thou) I think I will consider the following..

 

1. Call my lawyer

 

2. Let It be, using my cougar throttle in combi mode, and be nice to everybody

 

3. Contact a headshrinker because i am thinking it Might be due to my outspoken postings above

(The big brother hear and see ya....)

 

4. Since I am entitled to an engineering degree in electronic (anno 1982) I'm considering open up the throttle and do some investigation and meassurements on the electronic. *I assume there is no circuit diagram or like to perform this. *However I think the USB interface unit in the throttle *might be a sort of standard item.....

[Funkyjazz]

nce I'm left in the dark by dealers and sub dealers regarding my dead throttle and I've got no RMA or support so far after quite a few emails (no telephones made yet thou) I think I will consider the following..

 

1. Call my lawyer

 

2. Let It be, using my cougar throttle in combi mode, and be nice to everybody

 

3. Contact a headshrinker because i am thinking it Might be due to my outspoken postings above

(The big brother hear and see ya....)

 

4. Since I am entitled to an engineering degree in electronic (anno 1982) I'm considering open up the throttle and do some investigation and meassurements on the electronic. *I assume there is no circuit diagram or like to perform this. *However I think the USB interface unit in the throttle *might be a sort of standard item.....

 

Well, its totally up to you but i would contact TM directly and claim for the RMA!

You are a customer who have bought a product that went RMA within X time. Don't know what country you live in but as far as my knowledge goes, every customer has right on a non faulty product within X month.

So, its strange that the dealers / sub-dealers are ignoring your mails. So i would absolutely contact TM (phone) self, calling out the (sub) dealers name and your problem. TM cant ignore your dead Throttle unit.

[Teej]

When looking in the device manager at the USB section, you can see the milli ampere used by a device: Control Panel >> Device manager >> Universal serial bus controllers >> *Right click on the device* >> section Energy.

 

Unless they (microsoft) have really changed something that I don't know about (which is possible)...that number is telling you what the hardware mfr has specified as the max power usage for the device and/or max agreed upon between the device and windows...not the actual usage.

[Funkyjazz]

Unless they (microsoft) have really changed something that I don't know about (which is possible)...that number is telling you what the hardware mfr has specified as the max power usage for the device and/or max agreed upon between the device and windows...not the actual usage.

 

Okay...never knew that! :doh:I really thought that what i saw was the actual milliampere usage from a device...:cry:

 

Thanks for the heads up!

[Wolf Rider]

Question: Do the owners of these bricked Warthog throttles, run their rigs on a UPS at all?

 

 

To be honest, "calling a lawyer"... class action may be the only way of sorting these things out, but may also kill off future developer efforts.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Wolf Rider

[Maverick]

Question: Do the owners of bricked throttles have their computers connected to grounded or ungrounded outlet?

 

Older homes have only ungrounded outlets in bed/livingrooms.

 

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/ungrounded_pc.html

[emenance]

I work with office machines and computers and I think it maybe a power problem too. Here is a check. Now we have seen machines run ok at 1 volt. Depends on how high tech the machine is if problems will show up. Just keep in mind that the lower the reading like.5 volts the better your socket is grounded and safer your equipment on the socket. High tech 30k dollar color copiers cant deal with this kind of bad ground. Niether can $500.00 fax machines so its very important. Dont take this lightly and keep in mind that when you finish this test you should check to see how much power is actually coming out of the socket. You should read around 120 volts plus or minus 10% is within specs of most office machines but I consider a socket that has only 117 volts to be a problem. Im going to post this in the pc hardware section too. I dont like like UPS power supplys on office equipment unless it exceeds the power supply in the computer. For example: I now use a 950 watt power supply to support my video cards. Do you know how much a 950 watt UPS cost? Ill pass... Ill just stick surge protection.

Edited January 8, 2011 by emenance

[Wolf Rider]

Maverick, yeah, that's the kind of thing I getting at... + 3rd Harmonic symptoms.

Emanence, a UPS will give seamless undervoltage protection, (as well as mains spikes/ overvoltage) that's the purpose of the UPS (cleanline), whilst full range units offer a harmonics filter. The mains grid is a filthy environment and assisted to its filthy state by, yes, you guessed it - switching (computer) PSU's and fluorescent lighting systems. to name a few...

I run a 1500va UPS for my 1000w Corsair PSU

Edited January 8, 2011 by Wolf Rider

[jerda]

1.) I have my computer plugged into a furman strip, on a dedicated grounded circuit - That wasn't the problem. I've never had any other piece of equipment go out.

 

2.) I was using a 6' non powered usb extension on throttle and stick.(because i read that hubs were the cause of the problem.)

 

3.) I leave it plugged in at all times. (too ridiculous to have to unplug it)

 

4.) "TM cant ignore your dead Throttle unit." -No, but they sure dont try to expedite the process. 2 weeks ago the throttle was dead,now im still waiting for them to ship the new one(they already have mine).

[herig2]

My throttle was sent to Canada for repair / replacement last week. I unplug the HOTAS before I shut down.

The rig is running off of a UPS. Unplug it one night, I always put the USB protective cap on, the next day when I plug it in, the five light flash and windows post an unrecognizable USB window, and that the device has malfuction.

[Wolf Rider]

in some circumstances the USB plug does arc across the EMF plate when hot plugging (trying to plug it in with power on)

[Succellus]

OK, so from my previous post giving situational, we can add by what Wolf rider just told us that:

 

No-matter-what if plugged or unpluged the Throttle can go FUBAR anyway.

 

So, all lead to the fact its a power issue, now i wonder whats the diference between the bricks TM receive back the Throttle people are getting back.

Probably a component.

 

And i find strange that when i shake the TMpandora box people b!tch, but when others do, the TM chevalier disapear...maybe i should have sayd "NI".

[Feed]

I'll second the UPS answer. I run my entire setup off an UPS, and leave my throttle connected to an external, powered USB hub (also connected to the UPS) ... throttle still lost firmware about 1 week after receiving it, and totally bricked after approximately 1 month. TM was responsive however; I had a replacement (via Canada) in a little over 2 weeks.

[Yoni63]

It's sounding more and more like there's really nothing we can do on our end to ensure this doesn't happen. Just got mine back up and running. I guess it will depend on how these "re-issued" throttles respond. I'm a bit taken aside by the fact that TM didn't comment or make any postings as to what they think the problem might be. That in itself leads me to think they have no earthly idea either. I guess we wait to see if one of the re-issued throttles bricks on us.

[Wolf Rider]

something to look at...

 

how many owners of the dead throttle drag their heels along the carpet (this isn't a get stuck into peoples' good or poor habits). I ask because this can cause a static build up and just waiting to arc.

[emenance]

When wierd stuff happens like this alot of times it can be blamed on a weak or failed UPS.

[Succellus]

When wierd stuff happens like this alot of times it can be blamed on a weak or failed UPS.

 

 

I would agree with you but for the fact that its only the throttle specifically that goes belly up.

No other component USB, or not USB, not even the stick, nor Cougar, or any other joystick/hotas/mouse keyboard and so on and many people have both plugged.

 

SO NO, its not UPS, unfortunatly, its TM faulty hardware.

 

And TM won t let anything transpire, they still live on old MKT habbit on the less the customer knows, the best.

 

And ill bet my salary that by now they KNOW VERY WELL what went wrong by the single fact that until now no re-shipped throttle went seven under or through some window. And may things keep that way.

 

Amen.

 

All in all TM is just suffering from MADE IN CHINA syndrome.

[Funkyjazz]

All in all TM is just suffering from MADE IN CHINA syndrome.

 

Pfff...from what world do you live in? Look around you. Everything around your PC and in your PC comes from the far east countries like Taiwan, Korea, China. Its not a "Made in China" syndrome! You should be glad that its made overthere otherwise we would pay 1000 euros for the WT and then still we would not be guaranteed of a 100 non failure product.

 

This has nothing to do with China but false TM management who decide to use Chip X instead of Chip Y.

[Teej]

 

And ill bet my salary that by now they KNOW VERY WELL what went wrong by the single fact that until now no re-shipped throttle went seven under or through some window. And may things keep that way.

 

I'm not gonna say you're wrong - I have no idea how right/wrong you are...but when you consider the very small percentage of units that have been returned (at least as far as we know)...the odds would be on TM's side just sending another random unit off the proverbial shelf back after writing the proper SN back to it. Thus, the "no second failure" doesn't really mean much.

[TwoLate]

I'm not gonna say you're wrong - I have no idea how right/wrong you are...but when you consider the very small percentage of units that have been returned (at least as far as we know)...the odds would be on TM's side just sending another random unit off the proverbial shelf back after writing the proper SN back to it. Thus, the "no second failure" doesn't really mean much.

 

 

Only thing about the random failures of this that bothers me it happens so quickly with very little use. It is not like it fails from the first startup. Maybe just a bad batch first production.

[Cali]

Only thing about the random failures of this that bothers me it happens so quickly with very little use. It is not like it fails from the first startup. Maybe just a bad batch first production.

 

Same thing happened with the cougar MFD's, people had them dying within a hour of use. Don't know how many fail/died, but there was a rash of them. Them seem to of figured out the problem and haven't heard anything bad about them in a very long time. Maybe this will be the same way, also cougars had some major issues when they were released. To me this is a trend from TM and it's best to wait a bit before you buy anything from any company, that's my policy.

[Succellus]

I'm not gonna say you're wrong - I have no idea how right/wrong you are...but when you consider the very small percentage of units that have been returned (at least as far as we know)...the odds would be on TM's side just sending another random unit off the proverbial shelf back after writing the proper SN back to it. Thus, the "no second failure" doesn't really mean much.

 

I would say you re underestimating TM here. I would say that they know which component is freaking out and they know which batches are faulty so they send you a non faulty hardware, non faulty AFATK (As far as they know).

 

You dont need to be a genius to identify the problem, just a someone with minimum knowledge and minimum equipment.

[Succellus]

Pfff...from what world do you live in? Look around you. Everything around your PC and in your PC comes from the far east countries like Taiwan, Korea, China. Its not a "Made in China" syndrome! You should be glad that its made overthere otherwise we would pay 1000 euros for the WT and then still we would not be guaranteed of a 100 non failure product.

 

This has nothing to do with China but false TM management who decide to use Chip X instead of Chip Y.

 

I can surely says your totally mislead, Korea, Taiwan and some other asiatics countries are very strick in timeline and quality, so freaking above China, its sad.

China is still basically a third world country with very poor regulation, very poor baseline handwork, very poor overall quality control.

Please notice the overall, and freakish rules.

I have some friends that work directly with asiatics companies or asiatic 3rd producers, in three diferent industries, and they all say: If we can, we avoid China.

But since bean counters usually kick in, its end up in China, as TM does.

And YES it is MADE IN CHINA syndrome, the same way one day it was made in taiwan, made it Japan, or made in SK, today its Made in China.

[Callsign.Vega]

People are willing to take a lower quality in exchange for a lower cost. That sentence right there explains the entire rise of the Chinese economic power.

[Slammin]

There is absolutely no evidence or indicator that the units being assembled in China have anything at all to do with anything. If it is a failure by a specific component, unless the component was actually fabricated in China, blaming China labor for the failure is stupid. It could be due to a batch of bad components that could have been produced in the USA for that matter, or it could be an inherent design issue. Who knows, but looking at my Hog, it does not feel nor look cheap and it also feels solid and not flimsy. I cannot see any fault in the way it was assembled and wouldn't be able to guess where it was assembled.

 

Just more bashing from a non-Hog owning mouthpiece.