The beginners learning thread

[MrYenko]

This is not a dig at the OP, as I love to see people that are interested in hard-core sims, who have not previously considered them; However...

 

This is a very high fidelity sim of an extremely high-performance, complex attack aircraft. If you're coming into it completely fresh, problems with very basic concepts, such as landing, are to be expected. I would highly encourage anyone with issues like this to pick up a copy of FSX, or X-Plane, and learn the basics there, as a C172 in the pattern at 80kts is much easier to learn on than an A-10 at 180kts.

 

Again, not a dig, just a suggestion. I know that everyone starts somewhere, but the learning curve for this sim is liable to become a learning cliff if you're not already acquainted with the basics of pilotage.

 

Another good idea, (And probably cheaper, although possibly less fun,) would be to pick up a copy of Stick and Rudder, by Wolfgang Langewiesche. An excellent primer on flying.

 

Regardless, keep plugging away, and you'll get it. Don't be afraid to consult real-world sources such as flight training forums and such, as the concepts all apply in the simulator, the aircraft in question is just a bunch heavier, and a bunch faster.

[Frederf]

The training missions you have are probably from Beta2 and Beta3's environment is not the same. There are some updated training mission files floating around partially updated for Beta3. Beta3 also has the rather severe fog that they're looking into.

 

In either case, if the training mission is talking about ILS... it's not really being a very good basic landing lesson. ED is trying to get done in 9 lessons what should normally take 300 much simpler ones.

 

I would suggest making your own mission to practice landings on. It's pretty easy to plop down an A-10C group, set alt 1000m, place it 40km away from an airfield and hit the fly now button. Starting in the air even in line with the runway should make repeat attempts much quicker.

[Revelation]

DNME, hopefully you'll find this helpful. Please let me know what you would like to see added or just general comments. I'll try to put together another one this weekend showing adjusting time of day, weather, etc...

 

 

[kylania]

W00t! Just got my 30th landing! :cheer3nc:

[StrongHarm]

Nearly everything you need is in the manual. Those things that aren't in the manual can be found with the forum search function, and beyond that through flight hours. There is no shortcut.

 

The Call of Duty mentality has this generation thinking "there's not much to battle, point and shoot.. I could do that.. in fact I'm really good". In reality people spend most of their time in battle hoping they don't screw it up because it's so complex and there are so many critical things to know. The Call of Duty equivalent to real flight sims is probably Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X. You jerk the stick and push the button fast and you're good to go. You won't find that here.

 

Reading the manual is mandatory to getting the most from DCS. Learning "enough to shoot" is insufficient. Know that there's a lot to learn, and enjoy the fact that you'll never stop learning.

 

It's important to remember that Game ≠ SIM.

 

If you put the time in, there will be a moment that you look down at your cockpit and sit a little taller because you've just realized you have complete command of that awesome piece of hardware.

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Batumi is probably a good place to practice landings, as it has PAPI lights (white/red lights) at the side of the runway to give you an indication of whether you're high or not.

[Lange_666]

@ Strongharm: You got a point there (a good one) but... you have manuals and you have manuals... good ones and bad ones. And although it looks good, ED manuals are not good when it comes down to learning stuff or matching things all together (that's my point of view but i'm not alone in this).

Look at it like you looked at some of your teachers in school: some were a lot smarther then others but that doens't ment that they could explain everything better so that "everybody" could follow what they teached.

[Georgio]

All you need to know about landings is to keep your speed to about 120-130 knots, so from the approach deploy speedbrakes, flaps etc to get the speed down.

 

Then drop your gear and retract the speed brake to keep your speed at 130 - if it looks as though you're gaining speed, deploy speedbrakes again.

 

Aim your velocity vector -O- , the mini plane symbol shown in the hud at the runway threshold , i.e. the end nearest you, at all times.

 

This velocity vector basically tells you where the plane is headed, so if you keep it on the runway threshold AND keep your speed to 120-130 knots then you will end up at the runway.

Then reduce power slightly and flare to get the wheels on the runway.

 

Apply full speedbrake to slow then use the brakes sparingly to stop.

Easy :)

[Tone71]

And remember, as you're coming in to land, throttle controls your rate of descent, pitch (up/down) on the joystick controls your speed. It sounds a bit backwards, which is why it's important to remember!

(I'm sure it's more complicated than that but that's roughly how it works).

[chaos]

And remember, as you're coming in to land, throttle controls your rate of descent, pitch (up/down) on the joystick controls your speed. It sounds a bit backwards, which is why it's important to remember!

(I'm sure it's more complicated than that but that's roughly how it works).

 

I know that's how its being taught in some flight-schools but it is fundamentally wrong. It's a leftover from the days of Otto Lilienthal.. when aircraft didn't have engines to begin with...

 

You point your aircraft where you want it to go and use throttle to control speed. By suggesting otherwise you make things difficult and confusing. Flying is not rocket-science. People tend to make it more complicated than it really is.

Edited November 20, 2010 by chaos

[RAF74_Raptor]

Thanks Guys

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I know that's how its being taught in some flight-schools but it is fundamentally wrong. It's a leftover from the days of Otto Lilienthal.. when aircraft didn't have engines to begin with...

 

You point your aircraft where you want it to go and use throttle to control speed. By suggesting otherwise you make things difficult and confusing. Flying is not rocket-science. People tend to make it more complicated than it really is.

 

Or if you're flying a helicopter!

 

But yes, I agree.

[Dimebag1]

I know that's how its being taught in some flight-schools but it is fundamentally wrong. It's a leftover from the days of Otto Lilienthal.. when aircraft didn't have engines to begin with...

 

You point your aircraft where you want it to go and use throttle to control speed. By suggesting otherwise you make things difficult and confusing. Flying is not rocket-science. People tend to make it more complicated than it really is.

 

At any rate, a change in throttle will require a change in pitch and vice versa. One should practice using them in tandem as if they are part of the one control: increasing throttle bri g's the nose up, and bringing the nose up decreases airspeed.

[Tone71]

At any rate, a change in throttle will require a change in pitch and vice versa. One should practice using them in tandem as if they are part of the one control: increasing throttle bri g's the nose up, and bringing the nose up decreases airspeed.

 

Perhaps I mean rate of descent then? Either way, I guess I'm juggling pitch and throttle without realising it; been flying sims for so long it must become second nature! :)

[effte]

Perhaps I mean rate of descent then? Either way, I guess I'm juggling pitch and throttle without realising it; been flying sims for so long it must become second nature! :)

 

As it should.

 

People shouldn't be signed off for their first solo while they still think one is exclusively to control one parameter. Unfortunately, you will find ATPL holders which still insists there is One Truth. Even worse, you will find three different opinions on what is The Truth among two ATPL holders... (not that this is uncommon). :D

 

Pitch and power controls airspeed and sink rate. That is the truth. The two controls are interlocked by the laws of physics and so are the two parameters they control.

 

The characteristics of the aircraft and the situation dictates which one has priority to correct any given off-nominal condition. On-speed and descending a bit too fast? Add power and let it sort itself over time. On-speed, in the soup and the GPWS going off? You better make damn sure to pull that stick/yoke while adding power! Near the lower edge of the glide path in the soup and slow? Pushing the stick is a mightily bad idea!

 

For the A-10, which is woefully underpowered and with engines with quite a noticeable spool-up time, I think fledgling virtual aviators need to be very aware of the fact that they can't expect to control the airspeed using the throttle all the time. If they counter a developing underspeed condition with throttle only, chances are they will find out exactly what the stall speed is before the engines start spitting out the thrust they need. They will also find themselves on the backside of the power curve by then, thus needing massive amounts of power (and time/altitude) compared to what they would have needed had they checked the initial speed decay with a slight lowering of the nose.

[chaos]

Either way, I guess I'm juggling pitch and throttle without realising it :)

 

... and that's how it should be done. However, if you're just starting out, you need some hard and fast rules on how to do the basic things.

[sweinhart3]

Make sure your using speedbrakes. Its a lot more difficult to bleed airspeed if your not. Personally, as soon as I am on final, I deploy full airbrakes, flaps and landing gear and then power up to maintain airspeed. Havent crashed yet in an undamaged aircraft. Keep your nose at a slightly positive attitude and maintain speed with the throttle. Watch your AoA and airspeed. As others stated, keep your velocity vector where you want to touch down. Soon as your over the runway reduce to idle and maintain your pitch and youll eventually find landing to be easy as pie. I havent yet bothered with ILS or tacan or DMEs. In modern aircraft, use of gps easily makes you lazy. In the real world, knowing how to use that stuff is important to supplement your navigation skills, but if your just learning, I wouldnt sweat that stuff just yet.

 

Also unlike modern civilian commuter and transport jets, A-10 uses older equipment that doesnt incorporate autopilot features for enroute modes or ILS or maintaining speed. I heard though the airforce is planning to add that stuff in future upgrades.

[Cooch]

I am a beginner as I may have stated before. I find the whole approach of the manual to be from an experts perspective and I immediately get lost with acronyms, information overload and jargon. After reading parts of manuals and browsing the forum, here's my learning wish list.

 

1. Installation, Setup controllers, calibrate controllers, get a good starter profile for controller.

 

2. Learn the sim interface

 

3. Basic cockpit overview (basic)

 

4. Beginners flight manual

4a. Basic instrument systems, explanation for each instrument, how to use them

 

5. Starting the a10 (good video already exists)

 

6. Create a basic mission

6a. Take off from runway

6b. Take off from hangar, including startup, taxiing etc

6c. Repeat the above at night

 

7. Create a basic mission (take off, land at neighbor airport)

 

8. Create a mission involving 3+ way points

 

9. Create a refueling mission

 

10. Create an array of emergency recovery missions

 

11. A guide to each system in the plane. e.g. Learn radios, learn radar, learn ILS etc. I would like to learn each system one by one and learn them well before I get exposed to acronyms, or multitasking etc.

 

12. Bring on the weapons / weapons systems

This is a whole manual all in itself. Again from the above approach starting off with the basics, say just shooting the canon, and developing from there.

 

 

How does this sound? Have I left anything out?

Any advice as to how I would go about following this curriculum?

Might this thread be of use to others? (hopefully)

 

I would really welcome feedback, correction, advice or discussion here. I adore the sim, it looks awesome. It is a landmark achievement by DCS; But as a beginner to flight sims, (never mind weapons), I am just lost and feel almost intimidated by the manual - it makes me feel rather stupid.

OP, thanks for this thread. I have flown sims on and off over the years, but this one is making me want to sink my teeth into it hard. It has a very steep learning curve, and your post is right on for me. I could have written it myself. so, thanks for posting this as I will be following it to learn all I can.

[StrongHarm]

Respect Lange,

I gave much thought to your words and see what you mean. I do agree that some people are better teachers than others, but also think that some people are better students than others. This is affected by their current level of education. I can tell to some degree which of my 14yo sons teachers he likes based on his grades. If they teach in the way he likes to learn he's golden. As another example, when I was in college I had a teacher who was a professed communist and thought that the U.S. was the bad guy, but I got an A in his class. The way he taught assumed that we all thought the same way that he did. It was difficult and made me feel dirty and pink, but I adjusted. (Take note also that I offer you respect although you have the number of the beast in your name haha)

 

I passed the Naval Air Training and Operating Procedures Standardization (NATOPS) test when I was in the Navy, and I can tell you that (although it's very much altered to be palatable to civilians) the DCS:A-10 manual is in basically the same format as a military manual: Overview, Nomenclature, Practical. There's no way around the nomenclature (or complete subsystems understanding) if you want to master the practical. I feel that they did a stellar job on the manual. I've personally read it more than once. I read it all the way through, did the practical and got about 20 flight hours, then read it again.

 

Reading this manual, and many other tech manuals, is a matter of surrendering to it and just enjoying the details.

 

I quote myself:

Hoglovers, don't go into this sim with partial knowledge of your Hog. Your Hog will put out.. but first you have to put time in. This is one thing I learned from women a long time ago.. though it wasn't hogs putting out.. wait.. bad analogy...

 

______________

 

@ Strongharm: You got a point there (a good one) but... you have manuals and you have manuals... good ones and bad ones. And although it looks good, ED manuals are not good when it comes down to learning stuff or matching things all together (that's my point of view but i'm not alone in this).

Look at it like you looked at some of your teachers in school: some were a lot smarther then others but that doens't ment that they could explain everything better so that "everybody" could follow what they teached.

[BTTW-DratsaB]

Dont forget the Quick Start manual

 

Also, the quick start manual is really good (except for a few errors in the screens shots with labels). You can achieve a whole lot by reading that. It also makes diving into the full manual less daunting, it gives you a good reference point.

[openfalcon68]

If someone can share/make available training syllabus based on the real A-10C then we may be able to adopt the same.

 

It will ensure that we follow the same regime as that of the real A-10C flier, which would be so much better for such a hi-fidelity sim as the A-10C

 

Manish

[sweinhart3]

I attached a short track of the landing mission. I couldnt get the instructions to advance and would have ignored them anyway. You can see my technique and its really rather easy. I didnt mess with navigation and just flew the plane.

 

Edit: Ill have to attach it a little later. The website seems to be broken and the attachment button doesnt work.

 

Edit: here it is

LastMissionTrack.trk

Edited November 20, 2010 by sweinhart3

[dnme]

This is a stupid question that must be asked.

 

Are you using only the keyboard to fly this bad boy?

 

Hi leafer

I am using a brand new x52 Pro out of the box with no profile. Find it a bit jumpy tbh.

[dnme]

Wow

 

Just checking in on the thread and amazed to see so many people offering great advice. Again I wish there was a thanks button. Thanks everyone so much.

 

I have a bit of sim experience. As far as the fundamentals are concerned, I have read up and kind aknow what I'm doing wrt - Air Breaks, Flaps, Speed, Altitude, Keeping the Vector on the near end of the runway etc. I find it tricky to keep the aircraft pointed correctly, constantly having to correct, as I get nearer, these corrections get bigger and bigger. I am working on my inputs trying to keep them gentle and minimal. I guess this is down to practice.

 

Last night, I looked into buying Flaming Cliffs 2 as a way to learn an easier sim before taking on this one. I found the Lockon shop very confusing. I can but a download of FC2 but I must buy LOMAC in order for it to work. LOMAC is only available as a DVD (can't be downloaded). Bit of a mess if you ask me.

[MasterZelgadis]

There is a Thanks-button, left of the post, the middle button under the user's name, Join Date, Posts and reputation ;)

 

i know the problem with the corrections. Just keep calm, bring her in with very very smooth inputs. if you correct too much, you have to re-correct. That will result in the effect you described. try to place the Flight Path Indicator on the runway threshold, set your speed and use the trim function to trim your aircraft. with a little training, you will be able to land without even touching the stick anymore (except the flare maneuver) ;)

 

edit: You can download FC2 here. But you have to buy it, to get the serial code to unlock it after installation ;)