Secret Helicopter???

[aaron886]

How could they completely obliterate the airframe...

...and left a huge tail section intact?

 

Simple? They weren't in the same place?

[mikoyan]

The regular black hawk is very quiet as long as it keeps flying low when it is approaching; the only thing you can hear is the turbines wine (very cool); I can't say the same about the the mi-17s and uh-1; KA-32 sounds very close to a uh-1h but the turbine noise is a bit more tubular and pronounced...I was such a nerd I was able to differentiate jetrangers; MD500; uh-1h, ka-32; mi-17s and black hawks by the sound.

The comanche was cool but too costly to be a viable weapon system; and it looks more vulnerable to fire than the apache. I guess we can tell that all the money and knowledge didn't go to waste after the comanche cancellation.

[RPY Variable]

How could they completely obliterate the airframe...

 

 

...and left a huge tail section intact?

 

 

Because the tail was in the other side of the wall

[asparagin]

How could they completely obliterate the airframe...

 

Perhaps they detonated the (main) wreckage.

[power5]

UAV maybe. Not sure what explosives the seals carry, but that does not look like grenade damage.

[-fox-]

Perhaps they detonated the (main) wreckage.

Pretty sure that they did it and I think I even read it in some article. The fact that they didn't destroy the tail speaks volumes about how hasty they left before the Pakistanian army moved in.

[hassata]

Thermite grenades?

[aaron886]

UAV maybe. Not sure what explosives the seals carry, but that does not look like grenade damage.

 

You know, based on the blast charring patterns on the wall, I wouldn't rule out a missile from a UAV. To me, the light area on the wall says it might have been directed towards the helicopter from somewhere perpendicular to the wall.

 

Someone commented Thermite grenades... although Thermite would leave things melted, it would take more than grenade-sized explosives to obliterate that fuselage, IMO. (Although for all I know, they could have cleared a lot of stuff away before that photo.)

[AlphaOneSix]

Don't forget the fuel on board, probably in the area of 300 gallons.

[mikoyan]

butt still left important parts intact; the tail rotor is pretty much intact; so you can easily copy it and get the coat materials composition; part of the main rotor blades are intact; so this mission risk some serious assets.

[swift]

No spare explosives from SEALs or missiles from UAV? afraid of Pakistanian Army?

 

Looks like conspirational bravo sierra thing. Maybe I'm just paranoid. It's Christmas Day for the Chinese, some say.

[Avilator]

Thermite grenades?

 

You know, based on the blast charring patterns on the wall, I wouldn't rule out a missile from a UAV. To me, the light area on the wall says it might have been directed towards the helicopter from somewhere perpendicular to the wall.

 

Someone commented Thermite grenades... although Thermite would leave things melted, it would take more than grenade-sized explosives to obliterate that fuselage, IMO. (Although for all I know, they could have cleared a lot of stuff away before that photo.)

 

One of the articles did mention thermite grenades.

[borchi_2b]

ok, first,

this helo is secret and stealthy.

do to the facts i read, i doupt that this helo is based on some black hawk.

the black hawk is only able to carry 14 people. now we take into the equation the increased weight of stealth tech.

we have 4 crew members, 2 pilots and 2 doorgunners.

when we have some 500pounds+ for the stealth tech, then there are only 6 seats for a speacial forces team like delta or seals.

this would make a total hit team size of 18 soldiers. in comparison to the task and the threat, it is not clear how many special forces operators are needed. maybe 18 would be enough, but one thing is for sure. do to the fact, that one helo crashed, only 2 teams out of 3 could have left the scene with a helo, now we take the 4 crew members of the downed helo into the equation, then it is clear that not even 2 teams could have left the scene, no, only 1 team could have left the scene, cause we also have to add the body of bin laden to the load, which makes +5 people when we add the crew too.so, there comes one question to my mind, how did the 2 left teams get away from the scene?

so when we also look at the sice of the tail, i am really sceptical, that the new design is based on the blackhawk. in addition, when the fuelprob, how mentioned in a articel, could not be made stealthy, then you have to think about a new design platform, that you use as first stage, which has way more range then a blackhawk can have, cause any extra internal fueltank would reduce the capability of carrying personal, which is the maintask of such helo.

my option for a development for a helo that would be capable for such missions would be the EH-101. when you improve this basic design, then you will end up with a helo that is bigger, but not the size of a hh-53.

we all think about black hawks, cause they are popular, but in my opinion, the new stealth special ops helo is bigger, has more range and is capable of carrying more personal and armament then a black hawk can carry.

just think about all the gear these operators have to carry, sometimes, cause these helos are not just built for the mission they were recently used for, no the missioncatalog is way more flexible and has a way bigger range then just kill bin laden. you need space for that gear, and the black hawk would not be my first choice at all. EH101 or the NH90 are more the tipe of helo i would use, plus look at the shape of the NH90, it looks a bit like a stealthy helo too, doesn´t it?

 

my opinion is based more on a designer aspekt and the needs that define a design :-)

 

cheers

boom boom

 

edit: just found this helo, when i looked up the data and range of the eh101.

Sikorsky S-92, this is an american product, which would also fit to such demands even better then a black hawk ;-)

but all tha i could figure is, that the helo must have been air refuel, cause external fueltanks do minimise the effectivness of the stealth tech and i checked on google maps the distances.

even when they operated from afghanistan/kandahar for example, they had to cross the mountains, which does not optimises the fuel consumtion so much, the range of any helo mentioned would not be big enough to fly into the target area and also fly back with a complete internal fuel. when the flew in from the sea, the range would need to be even greater, cause there would not be any air refuel possible beside the air refueler would be stealthy too.

one thing is definite, the assault brings up many questions, not only what happend on the ground, no, it gives me alot of input on fictional thoughts about technological things, that might be possible but not puplic

Edited May 7, 2011 by borchi_2b

[mikoyan]

ok, first,

this helo is secret and stealthy.

do to the facts i read, i doupt that this helo is based on some black hawk.

the black hawk is only able to carry 14 people. now we take into the equation the increased weight of stealth tech.

we have 4 crew members, 2 pilots and 2 doorgunners.

when we have some 500pounds+ for the stealth tech, then there are only 6 seats for a speacial forces team like delta or seals.

this would make a total hit team size of 18 soldiers. in comparison to the task and the threat, it is not clear how many special forces operators are needed. maybe 18 would be enough, but one thing is for sure. do to the fact, that one helo crashed, only 2 teams out of 3 could have left the scene with a helo, now we take the 4 crew members of the downed helo into the equation, then it is clear that not even 2 teams could have left the scene, no, only 1 team could have left the scene, cause we also have to add the body of bin laden to the load, which makes +5 people when we add the crew too.so, there comes one question to my mind, how did the 2 left teams get away from the scene?

so when we also look at the sice of the tail, i am really sceptical, that the new design is based on the blackhawk. in addition, when the fuelprob, how mentioned in a articel, could not be made stealthy, then you have to think about a new design platform, that you use as first stage, which has way more range then a blackhawk can have, cause any extra internal fueltank would reduce the capability of carrying personal, which is the maintask of such helo.

my option for a development for a helo that would be capable for such missions would be the EH-101. when you improve this basic design, then you will end up with a helo that is bigger, but not the size of a hh-53.

we all think about black hawks, cause they are popular, but in my opinion, the new stealth special ops helo is bigger, has more range and is capable of carrying more personal and armament then a black hawk can carry.

just think about all the gear these operators have to carry, sometimes, cause these helos are not just built for the mission they were recently used for, no the missioncatalog is way more flexible and has a way bigger range then just kill bin laden. you need space for that gear, and the black hawk would not be my first choice at all. EH101 or the NH90 are more the tipe of helo i would use, plus look at the shape of the NH90, it looks a bit like a stealthy helo too, doesn´t it?

 

my opinion is based more on a designer aspekt and the needs that define a design :-)

 

cheers

boom boom

 

edit: just found this helo, when i looked up the data and range of the eh101.

Sikorsky S-92, this is an american product, which would also fit to such demands even better then a black hawk ;-)

but all tha i could figure is, that the helo must have been air refuel, cause external fueltanks do minimise the effectivness of the stealth tech and i checked on google maps the distances.

even when they operated from afghanistan/kandahar for example, they had to cross the mountains, which does not optimises the fuel consumtion so much, the range of any helo mentioned would not be big enough to fly into the target area and also fly back with a complete internal fuel. when the flew in from the sea, the range would need to be even greater, cause there would not be any air refuel possible beside the air refueler would be stealthy too.

one thing is definite, the assault brings up many questions, not only what happend on the ground, no, it gives me alot of input on fictional thoughts about technological things, that might be possible but not puplic

 

You are provably right; but what if the helicopter was build with composite materials; it would be lighter. I don't know if the 14 people capacity is just an accommodation limit and not a weight limit; made me remember when I was in high school; to go home we took a chevett taxi... we were able to fit 7 guys (without including taxi driver) so if you can fit 7 guys on a 90s chevett I don't see how you can't fit 18 soldiers on a black hawk... For illustration purposes here is a video of a chevette... plz ignore the music; it actually makes the car look worst...

Edited May 7, 2011 by mikoyan

[joey45]

......., there comes one question to my mind, how did the 2 left teams get away from the scene?..........

 

Who said they left....

 

Quick change of clothes and some trucks nearby.

 

Think about it.

 

EDIT: plus they probably didn't have or needed doorgunners.

[borchi_2b]

but it was not planed that way for sure. 3 helos in 3 out, that was for 100% the initial task, also nobody counted a new, never announced new stealth helo as a planned loss. never expose too much, that makes you vounarable :-)

 

sure take a truck and leave would be an option, but think about the tactical facts of the guarding and the military compounds around. that does not make it easier to blend in, or does it?

[hassata]

Trust me, the SEALs would have gone through numerous 'what-if's, one of which was bound to be loosing a Helo.

[Groove]

but it was not planed that way for sure. 3 helos in 3 out, that was for 100% the initial task, also nobody counted a new, never announced new stealth helo as a planned loss. never expose too much, that makes you vounarable :-)

 

sure take a truck and leave would be an option, but think about the tactical facts of the guarding and the military compounds around. that does not make it easier to blend in, or does it?

 

SF plan for 99,9% of eventualities. Expect the unexpected if they are your foe.

[Maximus_G]

I always thought the main rotor would give such a big signature on radar

It would not if it's made of composite materials, like that of Ka-50.

[159th_Viper]

.....never expose too much, that makes you vounarable :-)

 

There's been speculation as far back as 1990 regarding a US Stealth Helo (Test and Evaluation Project K) and here we are 21 years later and we're still speculating.........Nope: Situation normal, nothing exposed :D

[Pyroflash]

It is obviously the helicopter mode of the F-22A. Proof right here that the Raptor is not an airplane, it is the worlds first transforming aircraft mecha.

 

I'm sorry, but until official sources leak some information, everything at this point is just pure speculation. Like trying to guess at the new DCS aircraft. We know the role and nationality of the thing, but we have no idea what it is. And something tells me the military will go the HAVBLUE route and silence any and all references to this aircraft until twenty years from now.

 

Also, Viper, when you say 21 years ago and 1990 in the same sentence, it makes me feel old.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Pyroflash

[swift]

Apparently the CIA maintained a safe house in the area. Telegraph - Post - more

 

[Shaman]

I am posting this graphic here since no one did it here before ;) More refined art.

 

[Succellus]

Silent helo drawn are out there since the 70'.

Stealth tech is at least as old as the SR71.

Thinking USA wouldn t produce at least a batch for deep penetration black ops is totally foolish, so, there s no surprise there.

[mikoyan]

Silent helo drawn are out there since the 70'.

Stealth tech is at least as old as the SR71.

Thinking USA wouldn t produce at least a batch for deep penetration black ops is totally foolish, so, there s no surprise there.

 

You are right; It looks like the Pakistan government will let the Chinese have a look at the tail section; I bet that it already happened. I still think that they should have bombed the whole complex with an f-22.