Air refuel tutorial

Cibit · June 13, 2011

Thanks very much for the tips guys I tried briefly with small settings and it certainly helped ,.need to tweak more :)

Eggcake · June 13, 2011

Hi Custer,
Actually it was more seeing you bobbing around for ages on the refuel, that made me realise how much more controllable it should be, hence inspiring me to get round to changing the values. Certainly does make a big difference.

Eggcake, possibly you are trying too hard to find a trim for every situation, I think what you need to do is find out the tanker speed, then realise that you need to trim so you are flying straight and level when at that speed. then not touch the trim again.

So for example, tanker speed 218kts. you find the trim where when you are flying 218 constant, without changing the throttles, the aircraft will hold level for extended periods, say 5 seconds or so, then you might need to make a small attitude correction, but that trim is probably about right, so dont touch it. You probably wont ever find the exact trim, then understand that as you increase the throttles and speed in order to close in on the boom, your trim will momentarily become incorrect. BUT DONT CHANGE IT! because when you reduce speed to hold the correct position on the tanker, you will fly back into the correct trim that you had already established in your pre contact position. Maybe this is the problem you have, thats how I think of it anyway.

Thanks for the advice. A possible problem could have been that I changed the trim and that I trimmed with a wrong speed in the first place. I remember that I knew the exact speed of the tanker - but I don't think I was at that speed when I trimmed. So yeah, that lead to constant corrections when I was in contact.

I also increased the curvature of the roll axis a bit. I never had problems with 15 curv during "normal" operations but maybe 20 will help for air refueling.

I will try it again and report back. :)

Shootist · June 13, 2011

Well Custer, I am inspired once again. Refuelling is by far the hardest thing I have tried to accomplish with this game. The last try had me hooked up for 2 seconds before I lost it. I did notice your approach was definately lower than mine> and that might explain why I seemed to be in so much rough air. I have my stick set as prescribed, am trimmed out level and close to matching speed so I am hoping the next try will show better progress as I keep more under the tanker and not so much behind it. But, damn, it makes the Arthuritis flare!

Eggcake · June 13, 2011

And it worked. My second attempt :)

Had to reconnect several times but there was one very long connect.

I don't know, but I think I tried to correct for too little/was afraid to crash with the tanker. But if you just remember or predict how your plane reacts and know where to put the throttle afterwards, it gets easier. For example if you see that you are getting too slow/the boom is "too much" in the green, push the throttle forward for like 10-20%, but pull back after ~1s (before you actually gained the needed speed to get closer to the tanker) below the position where you maintained your speed before and go back to the initial position after another second.

Something like that. But yes: this only comes with practice and it was far from perfect - with this in mind, I go and try again :)

PS: Watching the replay with higher speed and seeing the plane hopping up and down and left and right is pretty funny :>

Edit: Yes! - full refuel without losing the connection to the tanker. Funny thing: right after that one of my engines failed. Was my first "random" failure...

Next stop: refueling in night ops :D

Edited June 13, 2011 by Eggcake

Steel Jaw · June 14, 2011

It aint easy...and I suspect that it's actually EASIER in RL.

Are there any bugs in IFR I need to be aware of?

Edited June 14, 2011 by Mower

Cibit · June 14, 2011

Are there any bugs in IFR I need to be aware of?

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=70045

:)

Steel Jaw · June 14, 2011

Nothing in there about IFR that I saw.

bluepilot76 · June 14, 2011

Do you mean In Flight Refuelling or Instrument Flight Rules? IFR usually means Instrument Flight Rules in aviation. Acronymn for Air to Air Refuelling is usually AAR I think?

Steel Jaw · June 14, 2011

Yeah IFR is normally Ins Flt Rules, but also refers to In Flight Refueling, also known AR.

bluepilot76 · June 14, 2011

OK, well I am not aware of any acknowledged bugs, something I noticed the other day was that I kept getting disconnected about a second after being told "taking fuel", despite being completely stable. Even though I was told disconnected, I was actually still connected, but I think the tanks were full, the gauge wasnt going up anymore as far as I could tell. However other times I have been told "tanks topped off and ready to roll" or something like that.

Druid_ · June 14, 2011

It aint easy...and I suspect that it's actually EASIER in RL.

Nope its not.

shadowmind · June 16, 2011

What missions do you fly to practice tanking? I tried to create my own, but the tanker won't respond. I get right up on it's tail and communicate with him, but he won't lower his boom. Also I can't get a TACAN frequency to try and home in on the tanker. So I've had to do it visually.

Frostiken · June 16, 2011

Nope its not.

1) Boom operators IRL are better at their jobs, rather than whacking the side of my aircraft like they're wont to do in-game.

2) They don't randomly have idiotic behavior where they start yelling 'disconnect' and break contact without any explanation.

3) The nature of the boom means it's going to be resistant to your aircraft movements somewhat, whereas in DCS it lets the slightest, tiniest movement slide you all around.

4) Better tactile feedback of the aircraft in real life as well as finer control over trim and HOTAS.

It's undoubtedly hard in real life, but I have a feeling it's not hard for the same reasons it is in DCS.

gmohr · June 16, 2011

I can say that I have quite a bit of formation flying experience in real life, in the form of glider aero tow, and this does indeed feel harder. I suspect the lack of acceleration perception really affects this.

Having said that.... Trying to hook up, at night, in the sh*t, while low on gas over some hostile landscape.... Yeah it probably doesn't get harder than that, period. Nothing but respect...

Edited June 16, 2011 by gmohr

jazjar · June 16, 2011

Frosti's air refueling tutorial:

Put the thing in the hole until the stuff sprays out.

Not to sound childish, but THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID HAHAHAHAHA!

Svend_Dellepude · June 17, 2011

Not to sound childish, but THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID HAHAHAHAHA!

:megalol: my favorite joke! :megalol:

I used to practice AAR in an empty plane but i found that bringing some stores made AAR a lot easier.

It makes the a-10 less responsive and gives a little more time to react.

now im down to 2 or 3 times of connect/reconnect from 20% of fuel to a full tank.

Druid_ · June 17, 2011

1) Boom operators IRL are better at their jobs, rather than whacking the side of my aircraft like they're wont to do in-game.

2) They don't randomly have idiotic behavior where they start yelling 'disconnect' and break contact without any explanation.

3) The nature of the boom means it's going to be resistant to your aircraft movements somewhat, whereas in DCS it lets the slightest, tiniest movement slide you all around.

4) Better tactile feedback of the aircraft in real life as well as finer control over trim and HOTAS.

It's undoubtedly hard in real life, but I have a feeling it's not hard for the same reasons it is in DCS.

1),2) agree

3) Not really, negligible at best, has to be fluid else damage to recipticle/boom/aircraft could occur.

4) agree

Yes. The reasons are numerous but mainly down to weather effects not simulated well in DCS. Probe & drogue is harder still.

andysim · June 17, 2011

I think AAR is just about right, not too hard but not to easy. I can imagine its not easy to get the balance right, I mean without having any feedback from the stick and having almost no peripheral vision from a 2D screen and an AI tanker thats prone to sudden turns.

Im sure real A-10 pilots have to deal with turbulent air from the tanker/boom which is not in the sim, if it was then it would much much harder.

shadowmind · June 18, 2011

OK, I have a new found respect for your flying skills Custer!!! I hadn't tried aereal refueling, because the missions are so close to the base. But I spent 3 hours trying today. I can connect up, but I can't hold it. I use a CH Flight Sim Yoke, which made flying and holding in relation to the tanker. My problem is throttle control. It is so sensitive to airspeed.

Thanks for the video. I will keep practicing....:joystick:

Wolf Rider · June 18, 2011

c00SckWJftI

FfRE6F2ou0s

Edited June 18, 2011 by Wolf Rider

bluepilot76 · June 18, 2011

I think AAR with a boom would not be especially difficult for a military pilot, its basically just flying formation on a really big aircraft. These guys are trained to fly in tight formation through all sorts of manoevres. I think the difficult bit is the last 12 inches, and the guy flying the boom takes care of that.

After all, on many aircraft the refuelling port is behind the pilot, so he is not responsible for the last few critical inches.

With a basket though...That Im sure is difficult for any pilot, as the basket bobs around and the pilot has to control the aircraft right into it.

All you DCS F18 wanters, be afraid! (I think its only basket with naval F18?)

Count Sessine · June 18, 2011

Whoa, finally managed it. Got a full tank. Thanks for all the advice in this thread, it was very helpful and encouraging. Definitely one of the more difficult challenges I have ever been presented with in a flight sim.

My 'trick' was to hold the tanker in a certain position in view area above the HUD, then the boom came down by itself. It would be easier if I could maintain contact for longer, but that should improve with exercise.

PlainSight · June 18, 2011

"Once it's in, it's not over" :lol:

Talon-X- · June 22, 2011

Whoa, finally managed it. Got a full tank. Thanks for all the advice in this thread, it was very helpful and encouraging. Definitely one of the more difficult challenges I have ever been presented with in a flight sim.

My 'trick' was to hold the tanker in a certain position in view area above the HUD, then the boom came down by itself. It would be easier if I could maintain contact for longer, but that should improve with exercise.

Must be nice. I've only been able to connect a couple of times for a few seconds over the last few days. I think that the boom operator I get is cross-eyed:wacko:. He just can't hit the hole:music_whistling:.

Hellfire257 · August 1, 2011

OK, well I am not aware of any acknowledged bugs, something I noticed the other day was that I kept getting disconnected about a second after being told "taking fuel", despite being completely stable. Even though I was told disconnected, I was actually still connected, but I think the tanks were full, the gauge wasnt going up anymore as far as I could tell. However other times I have been told "tanks topped off and ready to roll" or something like that.

I'm having the same problem. I'm keeping the boom colours in the green section but after no more than 3 seconds I get a disconnect.

EDIT: Picture for you. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? The aircraft was stable in that position as well.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Hellfire257

Sign In

Air refuel tutorial

Recommended Posts

Cibit

Eggcake

Shootist

Eggcake

Steel Jaw

Cibit

Steel Jaw

bluepilot76

Steel Jaw

bluepilot76

Druid_

shadowmind

Frostiken

gmohr

jazjar

Svend_Dellepude

Druid_

andysim

shadowmind

Wolf Rider

bluepilot76

Count Sessine

PlainSight

Talon-X-

Hellfire257

Recently Browsing 0 members