Something interesting a Tornado pilot told me...

[Conure]

First off, this is hugely obvious and most of you have probably considered it, however I hadn't!

 

So we're discussing the bombs etc and I say to him "Why would you ever use unguided bombs? Why not always use laser and GPS guided munitions?"

 

I was genuinely confused about their possible use, when suddenly he came back with the most common sense statement possible, I was shocked at how stupid I'd been not to consider it...

 

"Guided munitions cost a lot more".

 

Felt stupid after that, but in hindsight I guess the world of simulators don't place these kind of constraints on us!

 

Just thought I'd share :)

[Tornado_Pilot]

Yeah, always nice to know^^

 

There was a Simulator some years ago, i think it was something right from the "Strike Fighters" Family, where you were a soldier and had to pay everything... Never played this sim, but it sounded quite interesting,though i would think it would stress the simmers much more, if there was a cost aspect besides learning all those stuff re. A10C

 

But maybe, as a future mod, it would be quite interesting, just to see, how many billion dollars you just shot during the last mission.

 

greets

Chris

[Eddie]

Yep, always surprises me how many people don't think about that. But of course, there are tactical and strategic reasons why unguided munitions would be used over guided as well.

 

Pilots don't concern themselves with the cost of the weapons they deploy any more than an infantryman on the ground worries about the cost of the weapons he uses. That stuff is for governments to worry about. In fact, individual pilots have little say on what weapons they carry on a mission.

[Frostiken]

Only time I've ever seen a dumb bomb carried was for training, usually the big blue duds, sometimes lives. Wartime it's JDAMs and Paveways all the way. Very rarely will we fly live PGMs for range training. VERY rarely.

[mvsgas]

There many things people never take into consideration. For example, just because aircraft "X" may be able to carry weapon "Y" it does not mean that that weapon would be available. A unit may deploy to a location where they only have weapons "C" and "D" or they may run out of that weapon.

[WildBillKelsoe]

First off, this is hugely obvious and most of you have probably considered it, however I hadn't!

 

So we're discussing the bombs etc and I say to him "Why would you ever use unguided bombs? Why not always use laser and GPS guided munitions?"

 

I was genuinely confused about their possible use, when suddenly he came back with the most common sense statement possible, I was shocked at how stupid I'd been not to consider it...

 

"Guided munitions cost a lot more".

 

Felt stupid after that, but in hindsight I guess the world of simulators don't place these kind of constraints on us!

 

Just thought I'd share :)

 

Man! I wish there was a mod for purchasing these beauties!!! Like SH, torpedoes (specially the refined models) cost renown. Someday, somebody will. That, I'm sure of. :huh:

[slowhand]

Strike Commander was the game...lol was fun try'n make boot disks to free up the hi men to run the damn thing..:megalol:

[Magician]

Strike Commander was the game...lol was fun try'n make boot disks to free up the hi men to run the damn thing..:megalol:

Strike fighters had a mercenary campaign in it where you had to buy, not just weapons, but aircraft as well.

[NineLine]

Strike Commander was the game...lol was fun try'n make boot disks to free up the hi men to run the damn thing..:megalol:

 

 

Ahhh the good ole days....:thumbup:

[effte]

i would think it would stress the simmers much more, if there was a cost aspect besides learning all those stuff re. A10C

 

We'll see... when they get around to the dynamic campaign. ;)

[711Hancer]

In Falcon 4.0 there was an inventory for bombs so they might get out of stock throughout the campaign

[Cupra]

Yea, if you shoot to muhc of one kidn of muniton it could happen that there is no munition anymore. The same thing like a lot of screenshots here all the A-10 are fully loaded with a lot of weapons. In reality they carry maxbe 4 Mavericks,2 Sidweinder and thats all...

 

Maybe a campaign should have a cost limit... you just have 10 Millions per Jet, if you rund out of money you have to go home :megalol:

[GGTharos]

They carry 2 mavericks + 3-4 bombs, and the jammer pod and sidewinders IF necessary. And of course, TGP.

[majapahit]

AFAIK since a long time, like in since WW2

strategic command, when assigning resources/platfrom/tagrets

 

will calculate (or perhaps account)

the estimated $$$ value of both weapon and target

 

even $$$ AA missiles will (would?) only be fired against certain types of aircraft

 

perhaps with trillions$$ missing at the Pentagon, and reports of how Iraq was 'flattened several times over', and same for Afghanistan ('there are no - starategic $$$ - targets in Afghan (since quite a while)")

they cannot be bothered these days

.. the 'stake holders' just 'order' to print more money, right

Edited August 18, 2011 by majapahit

[bluepilot76]

I remember reading during the Bosnian campaign that they were dropping huge numbers of dumb bombs, some of them VERY old, and often failing to explode, because they had presumeably run out of stocks of LGBs.

[mikoyan]

there was a tornado sim; but I can't find it on youtube

[Eddie]

I remember reading during the Bosnian campaign that they were dropping huge numbers of dumb bombs, some of them VERY old, and often failing to explode, because they had presumeably run out of stocks of LGBs.

 

You don't have stockpiles of LGBs, you have stockpile of bombs, and stockpiles of LGB kits. The LGB kits (heads and tails) are attached to your bog standard dumb bomb to make an LGB. Same thing goes for JDAM. But yes, at times guided weapon kits have been known to run short, missiles and the like even more so. And not necessarily because there aren't any, it's more likely that they just aren't in the right place due to logistics issues.

 

As for being old, in the case of simple bombs, yes they normally are (relatively speaking). Because they have a longer storage life than most guided munitions due to the not having batteries and sensor that require servicing and replacement.

 

As for failing to explode, that happens more often than you'd think. And the age of the bomb itself isn't all that relevant, it's the fuze that makes everything go bang, and the fuzes are not fitted until shortly before the weapons are brought out of storage to be loaded on to aircraft. And again, they have a relatively short shelf life.

 

Don't fall into the trap of assuming that if PGMs are not used it's because they have run out. Often dumb weapons are used because they are the best tool for the job. Until recently we were using dumb bombs and rockets alongside LGBs in Afghanistan, because they were the right tool for the job.

[tflash]

When the launching aircraft is "smart" enough, you can even deploy unguided bombs with high precision. The TERPROM navigation system in Harrier GR.7 onwards allowed for terrain elevation correction on the CCIP pipper.

 

The main difference is the altitude at which you can do a precision bombing: with an unguided bomb, you will have to go a lot lower, making you more vulnerable.

 

If my memory is right, the GR.7 in A'stan was often loaded with one Paveway II and one dumb airburst bomb; it later shifted to two Paveway IV.

[Eddie]

Harriers would fly with one ac carrying 2 PWIV an the other carrying 2 540lb GP bombs (1 impact, 1 airburst) and 2 CRV7 pods.

[Heli Shed]

Pilots don't concern themselves with the cost of the weapons they deploy any more than an infantryman on the ground worries about the cost of the weapons he uses. That stuff is for governments to worry about.

 

So true.

 

We don't.

 

:thumbup:

 

'T'