AAR - Finally clicked!

[HammerUK9]

YEEESSSS!! :P

 

I've been off DCS for a few months, but since getting back to Uni (with room for a HOTAS on the desk!) I've been doing a lot of refresher work, and last night, AAR finally clicked after plenty of practice!

 

I've been trying to follow the excellent 25VFS checklists for AAR etc, but neglected to return to the pre-contact position as my contact was the most stable it's ever been.

 

Please see attached track

Couple of questions:

 

Is my relative altitude too high sometimes? Cause sometimes even though it's in the green, the pipe disconnects, and when I use a slightly lower altitude, it doesn't seem to be a problem. I'm unable to see either of the director lights from my position.

 

The first couple of loads give me up to 4000 a side - is this maximum? Subsequent refuels do not increase the amount, and the tanker issues repeated 'disconnect' messages.

 

Hopefully I'll be upgrading my HOTAS in the next couple of months - it's a stock TM F-16, and is a bit wobbly in all 3 axes - I'd love to have that miniscule pitch change or 0.5% core RPM change within my grasp!

 

Thanks

Refuelling Masterpiece.trk

[Lange_666]

1: A bit lower should be better. The boom operator moves the boom up when you approach to let you know where he want you to be. Not that i have seen this in real life footage but this is what it is ingame.

2: I don't think you need to see the director lights clearly with the A-10 since the wings of the boom cover most of that sight. Director lights are for aircraft which have their refuelgate behind the pilots back, like the F-16.

3: You will be refueled up to 8000 lbs max. If you disconnect before you are fully topped up, you have to "re-arm" the refueling operation by pressing the nosewheelsteering button to bring it back to ready status.

[mooshim]

 

I've been trying to follow the excellent 25VFS checklists for AAR etc...

Thanks

 

Would you happen to have a link? I'm intrigued...

 

Much appreciated.

 

~Moosh

[ilikepie]

here you are moosh...

[mooshim]

here you are moosh...

 

Thanks Pie. :)

[Eddie]

Oh that's why director lights don't work !

 

Anyone know what cues real A-10 pilots use to position on the tanker?

 

Just your position relative to the tanker itself, AAR is afterall nothing more than flying in close formation. Just keep practicing until you know exactly where to line up the tanker (i know I'm at pre-contact, for example, when the inboard engines are just above either side of the HUD).

 

Some people have found that, when learning, turning off the HUD can help them get used to flying a position on the tanker rather than trying to fly the FPM to the boom etc. Also, do not try and fly the boom into position, fly the correct position on the tanker and let the boom come to you.

 

And as Lange said, the director lights are designed for large aircraft (bombers and transports) rather than fighters, ignore them altogether and fly visual formation on the tanker

[Fish]

Don't be too greedy when you hook up. Better to fall back and reconnect, than have to do a full 'break' away because of excessive throttle.

 

And don't panic when the 'disconnect comes' If you are pretty steady, likely you will only have to adjust throttle to get back to contact position. And forget about the hud completely. Concentrate on the tanker, and 'feel' the correct throttle position, rather than look at the numbers.

 

AND

Practice, practice, practice. You will be surprised at how practising accurate and disciplined flying in all non-AAR operations will assist your AAR skills.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Fish

[Shootist]

I'm glad somebody's makin it work. Cause I'm still strugglin. I am using one of the original refuelling missions and the refuelling speed is about 180 knts. As I tried a refuel in another mission and that was around 200, I was wondering if 180 is a tad slow with more likelyhood of bouncing around and losing it after connection? But, basically I'm sure it's just me. Then again, how do I explain that the the wives and kids of the flight crew I sent to a flaming watery grave last time around? Didn't see any chutes.

[Laud]

Keep practicing! The main points are experience, trimming and giving your roll and pitch axxis a slight curve in the controls options. And always remember: Follow the tanker and not the boom!!! That is really important once you try to get in a stable refueling position!

[Robertemcsqd]

Distance counter on the upper-left in HUD doesn't show, why? Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks All !!

[Ganesh]

Distance counter on the upper-left in HUD doesn't show, why? Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks All !!

 

I don´t think the A-10C have such a visualization on HUD!

I use TACAN for BVR and then my eyes.

When it´s dark outside i have my NVGs.

[Guest Izoul123]

This is still my bane of the A10 that I still can't get down pat. I kinda gave up on it and have not tried in some time. Might have to practice again. Might try this with Track IR suspended next time as I seem to get cramped up in my neck trying to focus so hard on keeping it in formation as slight head movements throw off the visual alignment with the HUD in reference to the tanker.

 

By far the hardest thing to do in this sim so far in my opinion. I can connect, but not more than a few seconds. Then I want to rage shoot the tanker with the GAU...sometimes I do in single player practice lol. :joystick:

[komemiute]

Someone told me to use just one throttle for fine speed adjustments.

 

Take that as it is, no word for God.

[Evil.Bonsai]

Someone told me to use just one throttle for fine speed adjustments.

 

Take that as it is, no word for God.

 

Sadly, I can only control both throttles. I use a TM Cougar, only has one throttle :/ I still cannot get this right. I can usually get up to tanker with no issue but then I start porposing as soon as I'm at contact.

 

Definitely a practice thing, as I've at least made contact, for up to 3 or 4 seconds, whereas before I wouldn't even be able to do that.

[Guest Izoul123]

Sadly, I can only control both throttles. I use a TM Cougar, only has one throttle :/ I still cannot get this right. I can usually get up to tanker with no issue but then I start porposing as soon as I'm at contact.

 

Definitely a practice thing, as I've at least made contact, for up to 3 or 4 seconds, whereas before I wouldn't even be able to do that.

 

I've tried this with TMWH and is still a bastard on the throttles, even independent. I'm convinced the key is a dead zone setting on the TM stick,yes as you said one engine fine throttle control TM, and suspending Track IR...just not motivated enough yet today to try again. LOL.

[Rongor]

Someone told me to use just one throttle for fine speed adjustments.

I would not recommend this, since this could lead to yaw motion.

[Derbysieger]

I would not recommend this, since this could lead to yaw motion.

 

Actually the throttle adjustments can be so minimal that you will barely notice the yaw. Don't rock your throttle back and forth like you see it in some videos. I've had great success with using almost exclusively the right throttle on my hotas to adjust my position behind the tanker and just increasing the left throttle marginally as the plane becomes heavier during AAR.

 

The result is a very smooth refueling process:

I use constant minimal throttle adjustments (mostly only a few mm back and forth) in the video, almost exclusively with the right throttle.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Derbysieger

[komemiute]

Actually the throttle adjustments can be so minimal that you will barely notice the yaw. Don't rock your throttle back and forth like you see it in some videos. I've had great success with using almost exclusively the right throttle on my hotas to adjust my position behind the tanker and just increasing the left throttle marginally as the plane becomes heavier during AAR.

 

The result is a very smooth refueling process:

I use constant minimal throttle adjustments (mostly only a few mm back and forth) in the video, almost exclusively with the right throttle.

 

 

:thumbup: Apparently I was told the truth...

[Derbysieger]

:thumbup: Apparently I was told the truth...

 

Yes ;)

If you have a HOTAS WH you can make very precise adjustments with your throttle. When you listen closely in the video you can hear that the tone of the engine(s) constantly changes as I adjust the throttle but it's barely noticable most of the time

 

I usually come in on the Tankers 7 or 6 o'clock and then crawl up using both throttles. Once I'm in a decent formation I'll leave the left throttle in a fixed position and only make constant adjustments with the right throttle. I end up increasing left throttle every now and then when I feel that the plane slows down as I take fuel but it's only tiny adjustments.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Derbysieger

[Rongor]

I assume this technique is something for already advanced refuelers, not for beginners? Atm I am happy to match the speed at all with both throttles.

 

We can't really train this anyway as long as ED doesn't fix the AAR instant disconnect bug.

[Derbysieger]

I assume this technique is something for already advanced refuelers, not for beginners? Atm I am happy to match the speed at all with both throttles.

 

We can't really train this anyway as long as ED doesn't fix the AAR instant disconnect bug.

 

 

Well, it took me about a month of training to get AAR right. I flew up to the tanker 3-4 times/week in training missions (usually 1-2 evenings/week) and I also refueled in regular missions during that time.

 

If you have two throttles I'd say try and use them. Most imprtantly try not to rock the throttle - you only need very small adjustments to stay in position.

If your aircraft is properly trimmed you should be able to hold a fairly stable position behind the tanker with only very small adjustments on throttle and stick. You might want to re-trim every now and then as you take on fuel though.

[Rongor]

actually I also experienced one has to simply stick to it and practice over and over again. For me setting the curvature to 25-30 really helped a lot (TM Hotas Warthog here).

[WildBillKelsoe]

When you become really good, you can refuel without locking up trackIR or the view. An excellent mission is part of Sabre-TLA 's advanced qualif. campaign, a must-have for going deeper in.

[Orava]

have they fixed the bug with tanker? Last time I played was unable to connect (cannot test myself as I'm away now)

[Derbysieger]

have they fixed the bug with tanker? Last time I played was unable to connect (cannot test myself as I'm away now)

 

Nope, the bug is still present but you could load an earlier version until they fix this.