DCS World 2.0 and New Maps Discussion Thread

[Cobra847]

I'm not 100% Sure,

But For the people pushing for the Terrain Editor from the RRG Kickstarter Backing,

I do remember some where that it was stated to have Exporting turned off.

 

As in, you can edit the terrain, and submit the data to RRG to Export.

 

If you want to develop a Full Blown separate terrain, you may need more than just the Terrain Editor, or a different version.

 

 

 

Lets Look at this for a Second, the 2 largest 3rd Party Libraries for Flight sims belong to MS and Thirdwire:

 

MS FS2002,2004,FSX:

GMAX, Terrain Editing Software, FSDS, Max Plugin

GMAX Is Free, Terrain Software I dont remember, FSDS is not free, Max Plugin Requires MAX (which isnt free),

GMAX was Discontinued 8-9 Years ago, leaving only FSDS and 3D Studio MAX for Object and Scenery Creation/Editing.

 

Thirdwire SFP1, WoV, WoE, WoI / SF2 Series:

MAX Exporter for 3d, Terrain/Map Builders Available are all 3rd Party Written, and took a few years after release to be written.

 

Again MAX isnt free.

 

Thirdwire's original Terrain Engine Uses HFD with Texture Tiles and INI Files to place objects

ThirdWire's new engine (SF2:NA) Uses 3D Exported Tiles from Max and INI Files to Position them and place objects.

 

So other than GMAX, where are these free SDKs you speak of?

 

You shouldn't include content generation tools (like Max) as part of the program specific SDK. Technically correct, yes, but then you might as well include Windows, and so on.

The LUA interface / SDK to create aircraft for DCS is free, for example. Just because you need to export through Max doesn't place it behind a paywall.

 

As for examples?

Hammer, ArmA / OFP tools, Unity, CryEngine, CryEngine SDKs, Unreal Ed, JSBSim, TES Construction Set, blah de blah.

A modding community lives or dies on the availability of tools.

 

Unless there is licensed middleware in the EDGE SDK that cannot be released, it's nothing really "special" or "open for abuse" -- especially if the engine is using a proprietary format (like .edm).

There are tons of free alternatives for large-scale terrain editing, object placement and refinement already, some with excellent integration into existing engines (such as Unity), and some with features

that I doubt the EDGE terrain editing tool will have (like erosion simulation).

 

There is always going to be poor work being done in a modding community, but without access to tools or documentation, neither good or bad will see the light of day.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Cobra847

[mhe]

So other than GMAX, where are these free SDKs you speak of?

 

If I remember correctly, there was an SDK bundled on the last disc of the gold edition of FSX. Or was it acceleration?

 

The point being, if it is bundled with a sim you have PAID for, it can still be a free addon. Nobody will develop content for a sim he doesn't own, it would make testing impossible.

 

And there is X-Plane. It contains several development tools, although I haven't spent much time with them.

 

Btw, though I don't know what it's limitations are, P3D includes the SDK if you buy a Pro license.

 

This. Although the Pro license is relatively expensive for the average home user. It's not every day one spends 500 bucks on sim software. For that kind of money I can get a Sketchup Pro license.

 

You shouldn't include content generation tools (like Max) as part of the program specific SDK. Technically correct, yes, but then you might as well include Windows, and so on.

The LUA interface / SDK to create aircraft for DCS is free, for example. Just because you need to export through Max doesn't place it behind a paywall.

 

As for examples?

Hammer, ArmA / OFP tools, Unity, CryEngine, CryEngine SDKs, Unreal Ed, JSBSim, TES Construction Set, blah de blah.

A modding community lives or dies on the availability of tools.

 

Unless there is licensed middleware in the EDGE SDK that cannot be released, it's nothing really "special" or "open for abuse" -- especially if the engine is using a proprietary format (like .edm).

There are tons of free alternatives for large-scale terrain editing, object placement and refinement already, some with excellent integration into existing engines (such as Unity), and some with features

that I doubt the EDGE terrain editing tool will have (like erosion simulation).

 

There is always going to be poor work being done in a modding community, but without access to tools or documentation, neither good or bad will see the light of day.

 

This. So much this. If some of the community created content is to be included into the official build, then quality control is in order of course. But the availability of bad freeware doesn't detract from the quality of the good freeware.

 

If we already have a modular installer and the module management menus, we just might as well give development SDKs away for free or at least affordable prices so everyone and have ED do integration into the sim. Think of it like the app store, but for DCS. Also, people will pay for excellent content for their sim, no matter who created it. This business model would enable ED to generate some revenue by harnessing the community power because they are the publisher so to speak. And since the community is very critical, we can be sure that the bad addons will get downvoted in that "module store" fairly quickly and reliably.

[Bucic]

if Nate says the shots are not from EDGE please refrain from commending with an investigation unless you have something solid.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Bucic

[SkateZilla]

You shouldn't include content generation tools (like Max) as part of the program specific SDK. Technically correct, yes, but then you might as well include Windows, and so on.

The LUA interface / SDK to create aircraft for DCS is free, for example. Just because you need to export through Max doesn't place it behind a paywall.

 

As for examples?

Hammer, ArmA / OFP tools, Unity, CryEngine, CryEngine SDKs, Unreal Ed, JSBSim, TES Construction Set, blah de blah.

A modding community lives or dies on the availability of tools.

 

Unless there is licensed middleware in the EDGE SDK that cannot be released, it's nothing really "special" or "open for abuse" -- especially if the engine is using a proprietary format (like .edm).

There are tons of free alternatives for large-scale terrain editing, object placement and refinement already, some with excellent integration into existing engines (such as Unity), and some with features

that I doubt the EDGE terrain editing tool will have (like erosion simulation).

 

There is always going to be poor work being done in a modding community, but without access to tools or documentation, neither good or bad will see the light of day.

 

yeah, I realized after I posted the error in my example.

[cichlidfan]

This. Although the Pro license is relatively expensive for the average home user. It's not every day one spends 500 bucks on sim software. For that kind of money I can get a Sketchup Pro license.

 

$200 and you won't get a SketchUp Pro license for that.

[srky]

what is so special or amazing about these pics??

[SkateZilla]

what is so special or amazing about these pics??

 

 

if you turn your screen upside down and hold ALT+F4 it unlocks a hidden video.

[NineLine]

I see a sail boat

[srky]

I see featurless terain...

[ENO]

what is so special or amazing about these pics??

 

 

There was nothing official stating that there was anything amazing- anything else said by members of the community is entirely subjective.

 

For example, I think that was a stupid question you asked and you are entitled to disagree just as I am entitled to have that opinion. It's just my opinion, after all.

 

I see featurless terain...

 

And this comment was utterly useless considering it was screenshots demonstrating the RENDERER. (Opinion again- you know... subjective.)

 

Holy frick, do we need to cover all this again.

[srky]

Thanks ENO. But since majority got sooooo worked up over these two pics I just felt urged to drop my two cents...

I know it was about the rendering engine.

[Justin Case]

I see featurless terain...

 

I don't see any terrain at all.

 

I get excited by this because it shows that there is something going on behind the curtains.

[outlawal2]

Thanks ENO. But since majority got sooooo worked up over these two pics I just felt urged to drop my two cents...

I know it was about the rendering engine.

 

So basically everyone complains about no updates.. And then complain when they DO post updates.. (Gee big surprise that they don't want to post ANYTHING until they are ready to release)

 

WELL DONE :thumbup:

[NineLine]

So basically everyone complains about no updates.. And then complain when they DO post updates.. (Gee big surprise that they don't want to post ANYTHING until they are ready to release)

 

WELL DONE :thumbup:

 

 

See, someone gets it ;)

[srky]

I like the updates...

I was just reading trough the comments.

Pictures are beautifull and they really show the true potential of the new rendering engine.

I really hope we get to use it in the near future.

[VincentLaw]

what is so special or amazing about these pics??

Pictures are beautifull and they really show the true potential of the new rendering engine.

Looks like you answered your own question there. (I agree with the answer.)

[srky]

Yes, Vincent, that was my point. No need to go into "combat mode" or anything over it. It is what it is. Looks good.

[SkateZilla]

So basically everyone complains about no updates.. And then complain when they DO post updates.. (Gee big surprise that they don't want to post ANYTHING until they are ready to release)

 

WELL DONE :thumbup:

+rep

[outlawal2]

I like the updates...

I was just reading trough the comments.

Pictures are beautifull and they really show the true potential of the new rendering engine.

I really hope we get to use it in the near future.

 

So exactly why did you feel the need to insinuate that there was nothing of value in the pics presented? You have since clearly stated an answer to your question so what was the point?

 

:doh:

[srky]

Not wanting to insult anyone, just was wondering how people could deduce so much out of only these two pictures... hence the, admitingly sarcastic, first post.

[VincentLaw]

Not wanting to insult anyone, just was wondering how people could deduce so much out of only these two pictures... hence the, admitingly sarcastic, first post.

Without rereading the entire thread, some of the deductions could be made in combination with these two EDGE pictures as well.

 

 

 

[upupandaway]

So basically everyone complains about no updates.. And then complain when they DO post updates..

 

That´s the sad truth. Every creative process is one of many successive iterations, at least in my own experience. If you don´t take that into account, often this is where the complaints start.

Sadly, we live in a world where no open exchange between community and developers seems possible.

[srky]

jesuschr.... Vince, the background in the first pic looks like a photo!

I cannot begin to think what a performance hit this will make to my age old pc when is finaly out!

[VincentLaw]

Sadly, we live in a world where no open exchange between community and developers seems possible.

We live in a world where sometimes you have to ignore the complainers. If complaints are enough to stop creative people from releasing their creations, then there will never be any creations again. Even if you made something "perfect" people would still complain about it.

[upupandaway]

Well, I´d personally agree that you shouldn´t be too hesitant to post your unfinished work just because someone might take it the wrong way, but that´s generally a valid reason (or an excuse, depending on your point of view).

Quite frankly, I was rather shocked at some occasions by the way in which some people reacted to small bits of information that were provided to them.