Black Shark 2 Released

[BrumTx]

<~~~ Keeping mouth shut before I say something and get banned. I'll look at this post again in a few days after all the .......... has calmed down

[EtherealN]

In long term honesty is better than tight lips strategy. Take a look at Fighter Ops :P

 

IMO, ED has been honest. Sometimes keeping quiet is the same as honesty - if you don't know, you don't say. Especially since when ED says "maybe", or "we hope", or "our ambition", there's always people that read this as "we solemnly swear, before god and the congregation of the internets"... I mean, seriously, people here are repeating things as having been "promised" that were stated as "we want to". And then you ask why they become quiet?

 

I'd have started to STFU too, if I was given the same treatment. ;)

 

And the difference between ED and Fighter Ops is that ED delivers actual products, and does not charge for anything but product. ;)

[ALDEGA]

IMO, ED has been honest. Sometimes keeping quiet is the same as honesty

Or withholding the truth ;) Surely the decision to release BS2 commercially was not made overnight, although the limited communication makes it appear so. That said, I do hope ED get around implementing them non-functional switches in the shark :|

[Wichid]

Wow! just loaded up the Black Shark in 1080 glory with full graphics! It looks amazing! Now I have to fly every mission at dawn.

 

Unfortunately I've completely forgotten everything since I last played it. I'll have to read the manual again. Are there training missions available?

[159th_Viper]

Or withholding the truth ;) Surely the decision to release BS2 commercially was not made overnight, although the limited communication makes it appear so. That said, I do hope ED get around implementing them non-functional switches in the shark :|

 

 

Ok - point made: Time to move along now ;)

 

I'll have to read the manual again. Are there training missions available?

 

Training via Training Videos. Links are currently down but the issue is receiving attention.

[Wichid]

Thanks Viper & congrats ED on an awesome release! All the best.

[ALDEGA]

Training videos are also available on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=723940F5AE9B07BB

[BrumTx]

Sorry had to comment on this,

Ethereal, How can you say ED has been honest when one of your own team Chizh let the cat out of the bag

(http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=32647&page=310)

a simple note in Official updates would have at least given us a heads up.

[159th_Viper]

Sorry had to comment on this,

Ethereal, How can you say ED has been honest when one of your own team Chizh let the cat out of the bag

(http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=32647&page=310)

a simple note in Official updates would have at least given us a heads up.

 

You are aware that the post linked to was not an official announcement?

 

Keep in mind that there are always two sides to every story. Careful thought prior to unfounded accusations is always advisable :)

[sparchy]

I for one asked for my money back. In purchasing any product one has a realistic expectation for it to work. That expectation in my opinion was not met. The installer cant find Black shark and two it shows up as a threat of ws.reputation.1. I should not be expected to wait a period of time for a product offered short of a pre-order where the terms are up front. Nor should I have to spend time reworking my original Black shark just to make a upgrade/patch work. It's not the $20.00 that bothers me but rather the fact that the reasonable expectation has not been met regardless of moneitary value.

[EtherealN]

1) The installer glitch is being fixed. Apologies for the inconvenience, but should not be long at all.

 

2) Showing as a threat... It's a new program. I've seen pretty much anything show up as a threat if it's new, simply due to the heuristic modeling inherent. Don't listen to them blindly.

 

3) You don't have t ore-work your original. Don't need to do anything at all to it. Just install 1.0.0 as well. Nothing removed needed.

[C6_Hellfrog]

to pay is not the problem.

 

the problem is to pay for what ?

 

something new ? something inovative ?

 

in the DCS series : BS2 is not new... it is a patch, an inclusion of bs ka50 (from BS1 = nothing new) in A10 (= nothing new)

 

and a patch should not be payware...

 

(donationware at the limit... to avoid to frustrate the aficionados... :lol:)

 

:music_whistling:

 

yes, there are somme adds, campaign, variable winds, and some details... but not worth the value to pay for it comparatively to the work achieved by some free modders...

 

 

 

 

the other problem is : DCS series is not built as a modular project but rather as standalone different projects, and therefore there is the need of some work to regain compatibility by developers at each new release.

BUT I don't think anyone will be motivated to pay for that because it is developers' policy consequences, game development architecture consequence, not market or users fault !

AND just remember : a start of DCS series, ED has communicated a lot about future projects vanting free warranted interoperability, and a modular development.

Just have a look at directories and files in BS2 and you will just laugh...

 

no, it is not the price the problem, it is the evolution of the serie the problem...

 

many users are afraid for the future and therefore with no communication, with so many previous announcements not followed by products,

the problem is the confidence between ED and users...

 

my two cents

Edited November 3, 2011 by C6_Hellfrog

[BrumTx]

You are aware that the post linked to was not an official announcement?

 

Keep in mind that there are always two sides to every story. Careful thought prior to unfounded accusations is always advisable :)

 

But as it WAS made by a member of the ED team that counts for nothing ?.

 

This IS my final comment on anything to do with Black Shark I'll stick to FC2 and the A10-c. I'll continue to read the posts at some stage when all the shouting has quietened down.

And that is my final careful thought on this matter.

[Bucic]

You should have seen my face expression :D

(Browsing through the screenshot section: 'Freakin noobs, misspelling the sim name again......')

[Laud]

I'm seriously impressed by all those comments on prices.

 

1. Because a DCS-Module compared to, let's say a Need for Speed title, is really cheap, regarding what you get. I'd happily pay 100$ for a DCS-Module and I am very happy it only costs 50-60$.

 

2. All you guys putting hundreds to thousands of dollars into your machine and additional toys (TIR, HOTAS, etc), really complain about paying such a small amount of money about once a year??? Come on...

 

3. If it doesn't meet your expectations just don't buy it, instead of complaining.

 

Just have a look how constantly ED keeps improving their products without asking for money. A lot of the A-10C patches came with additional functions and features. Now there is one package that needs to be paid and everybody comes along like he's asked to pay those 20 bucks each month.

 

Just my 2 cent...

 

And as always: I'll buy it, even though I'll never fly it! Keep up the good work ED!

[GGTharos]

Bugfixes that were made for BS2 will be added to the A-10C patch (otherwise they would not work well together).

 

Is there any bugfix in BS2 that is not in DCS:A10C or 1.1.1.0 patch for A10C?

[159th_Viper]

......no, it is not the price the problem, it is the evolution of the serie the problem...

 

Such countless Armchair critics and not one, yeah, not one attempt at a constructive solution proffered by anyone in 670-odd posts......Yet it seems all are more than happy to moan, and not just moan, but at times to be blatantly rude, disrespectful and discourteus to boot.

 

It saddens me, it honestly does :disgust:

 

We however persevere........

[Renato71]

This thread kinda proves what I have pointed out several times in the past: to branch DCS into development:

- core engine and maps

- aircraft addons

- localization

 

Current approach is extremely outdated from a project management point of view, and even more extremely hard to upgrade/patch/hotfix.

Again, check out how it is done with other applications...

[Groove]

Hi all!

 

:thumbup:What a brilliant surprise!!:thumbup:

Quick question: Is there any difference or installing problem with BS1 version 1.0.1 ?

 

And if the german version is already in work: Any idea of a release date for it?

 

Verto

 

There will be a localized version. We will keep you updated on the german forum section.

[EbonySeraphim]

Such countless Armchair critics and not one, yeah, not one attempt at a constructive solution proffered by anyone in 670-odd posts......Yet it seems all are more than happy to moan, and not just moan, but at times to be blatantly rude, disrespectful and discourteus to boot.

 

It saddens me, it honestly does :disgust:

 

We however persevere........

I have already (happily) purchased this patch and will continue to invest in future modules. I posted somewhere around page 52 generally supporting the need to charge for this. I know it's a tough sell. The best (weak) suggestion I can think of is find a way to hide the cost of an upgrade patch of previous module in the development of the next module.

[C6_Hellfrog]

solution is in developers hands : just listen to user's community attempts, bugs feedback and so on...

since 2008-2009 many people are still waiting about ED for BS...

 

if developpers don't bring to users what they are asking for, don't be surprised or disapointed to see them "rude"...

it is the client / market law...

 

I think many frustrations are just expressed now, with this new patch, but are the sum of two years of developments and communications 'bugs'...

perhaps two many time between beta release and final releases... perhaps too many bugs not enough quickly corrected, perhaps too many promisses not totally respected...

[Bucic]

1. So all of the discussed outstanding BS1 bugs got fixed only in BS2 but not in BS1?

2. Looking at that screenshot http://gamingshogun.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/BS2-4-1600x1000.jpg I'm suspecting that the reported dummy texture on the left and on the right at some places still hasn't been replaced by a proper texture. Am I right? (see the thread with the list of the bugs reported by BS1 users; led by Nate).

[arality]

Such countless Armchair critics and not one, yeah, not one attempt at a constructive solution proffered by anyone in 670-odd posts.........

 

So here is my take on it FWIW:

 

In the beginning ED promised us a modular simulator, that we can all fly aircraft together in. So far we have gotten separate modules that have multiple copies of *some* files (eg: Maps, sounds, etc...) I was under the impression that with the purchase of a module, you got access to the DCS engine and that aircraft. So things like the graphics engine being updated with A-10, should be updated in Ka-50 because they are the same engine. I realize there are differences in the aircraft, however the underlying engine is the same.

 

If people want the new models, and stuff like cockpit shadowing for their old aircraft (eg: ka-50) then there can be an expansion for $20 so that the devs are rightly paid for the time spent upgrading the old code, models, etc.... However base engine upgrades should come with your original purchase. So stuff like the HDR, and JTAC improvements, etc....

 

I'm not looking to argue here. You wanted a suggestion this is my suggestion. Make the Engine modular, so we can buy new models, and not have things like network compatibility destroyed without paying extra money. This I believe is the crux of the issue. Everyone here loves the DCS series. Sure none of us have a problem with $20, whats that going out to eat a few times? However what happens down the road when we have 5+DCS modules? Now were looking at purchasing the new one, plus upgrades for all the old ones...it's going to get expensive real quick. And using the logic that well you don't have to if you don't want to. Well why even get it in the first place if I know I won't be able to play with my buddies down the road. All this is doing is Fragmenting the community. By making core engine changes free, then your community can always play together, no matter if they have the money to buy the new models or not.

 

Hope this is clear and concise, not looking to attack ED just offering my point of view and suggestions.

[empeck]

solution is in developers hands : just listen to user's community attempts, bugs feedback and so on...

since 2008-2009 many people are still waiting about ED for BS...

 

+1

 

What solutions you expect Viper lol. Since the beginning DCS sims were called 'modules'. It took over a half of year to make both DCS 'modules' compatible. Is it really strange that there are many voices that don't like this solution?

 

Imagine that you are buying Gotha, S.E.5a and Dr.I from 777, all of them are standalone games, they share map, and engine, but are not compatible online. 777 would be out of business long time ago.

 

Solution is simple from user point of view, but it looks like hard goal to achieve for ED's programmers. Either DCS series will integrate in single application with aircrafts as a DLC (it can be full price DLC - sixty bucks, I can accept that), or each DCS title will be standalone not compatible online product, and community will fracture even more. Or will move to that illegal, stolen piece of software :music_whistling:

[C6_Hellfrog]

Arality and empeck are very well resuming the customer attitude of at least half of french forums users if not the majority.