Black Shark 2 Released

[Rhinox]

...The problem is they expected it to be free and are morally outraged that they had to pay for the upgrade to make DCS: BS a fully fledged A-10C quality DCS module. That is ridiculous and that's what's so annoying about the people complaining about having to pay...:smilewink:

Could not put it better myself. I do not care of a few bucks more or less (just bought full BS2, instead of just BS1->BS2 upgrade). But I do not want to be handled as a cash-cow. I think ED-customers deserve better treatment...

 

And concerning this move from modular DCS-system to more-or-less independent packages, I'm not sure it is a step in the right direction. Instead of having "only" two tasks (1. developing new DCS-module, 2. updating DCS-common graphics/physics/maps/simulation-core), in case of independent DCS-packages ED will have to update/upgrade each of them, when new DCS:part is released.

 

It is maybe not so obvious now when we just have two parts of DCS-family, but will became clear in future. Imagine we have 20 DCS-planes, now ED just releaset DCS:No21, and we have to wait&pay for 20 compatibility-patches/upgrades (instead of just buying/paying for DCS:No21 and one upgrade for DCS-common core). And it is not only about money, but also time is a factor. With more and more DCS-parts we will have to wait longer and longer, till they are all finally online-compatible with the last new one...

[WildBillKelsoe]

 

The "DCS: Black Shark 2" upgrade requires "DCS: Black Shark" and is available for $19.99.

 

Does that work for steam version download of the original Black Shark?

 

• Updated Mission Editor with many new features

Such as?

 

 

• Improved AI for a smarter, more realistic behavior

Please do tell..

 

Just a quick question wags, when is the real deal coming.. I dont care if its the crop duster, the apache, the comanche, the f-18, or the f-117 stealth. Some of us are sick of the shark and the hog. WE NEED FRESH BLOOD!!! :mad:

 

And please convince me that the money I pay for this DLC is for the new aircraft, and not some unfinished business again.

[kiss4luna]

If you're having trouble supporting yourself, your family or a dependent and can't drop $20 on yourself in today's inflated price of goods world then you really shouldn't be playing.

 

Sell the computer, get a second job or third, go on welfare, cut back on the electricity, whatever, cos you'd need to if you can't one time drop $20 to treat yourself.

 

Yes, I'm judging those that bring the poor me sympathy card into the argument because really, you're complaining on a gaming forum....

 

there are many people in this world work over 12 hours per day over 24 days a month and get less than 1000$ payment and they do the hell same job as those who get much higher payment in other countries. just dont judge other's economics by your own.

[MemphisBelle]

Just a quick question wags, when is the real deal coming.. I dont care if its the crop duster, the apache, the comanche, the f-18, or the f-117 stealth. Some of us are sick of the shark and the hog. WE NEED FRESH BLOOD!!! :mad:

 

These things have been stated often enough.

 

Once the A-10 has finally been released incl. all needed patches (which will be the 1.1.1 one next week), the nevada map will be the next thing (where we´ll have to pay for again...just to say it early enough). At this point we can expect new informtion regarding to a new Module. So expect the very earliest new information according to a new Module around March or May 2012 at the very earliest...my guess.

 

Anythings new about the new installer?

[bogusheadbox]

PAYING for black shark 2

 

I can say that i am not 100 percent fully happy with this. In fact i am bordering on being freking p1ssed. I am all for supporting ED. But i don't want to pay for product x, then product y then pay again for patch z which is supposed to make x and y work together (as we were expecting this from the start.

 

So what happens when the next flyable is released. DO we then have to pay to patch both BS and a:10. Add another flyable, do we then have PAY to patch BS, A:10, the not yet named new release to the latest release.

 

I have to say, this pretty well sucks and does not make me want to buy every version of the game

 

As more flayables are released we will just have an ever increasing exponential costs just to make them all work together.

 

I may as well stop buying all the flyables and every 5 years buy the latest one and get the best out of it.

 

Not to mention it will seriously divide the flying community.

 

 

 

:cry::cry_2::furious:

[159th_Viper]

Friendly request:

 

The financial implications and arguments relating to the pro's and con's of the product have now been thoroughly discussed over a period of approx 2 days and close to 800 posts.

 

At the risk of perpetuating the proverbial perpetual argument, it is hereby requested that if you have already voiced your opinion on the matter, either for or against, kindly refrain from further comment on the matter and rest assured that your opinions/comments have been noted. For all newcomers to the thread, please feel free to voice your comments/opinions.

 

As to the further conduct of the thread, let's kindly keep it on topic lest posts made like the one above by noc_orthodontist fall through the cracks, so to speak. That would be a pity.

 

Ta

[159th_Viper]

 

Anythings new about the new installer?

 

I'll see if I can get some news/clarification for you.

[EvilBivol-1]

A new installer is being tested and is so far successfully recognizing all versions, including Steam. We anticipate making this available shortly (I'll stick my neck out and say by tomorrow, but don't cut my head off if I'm wrong).

[bogusheadbox]

Well i have voiced my opinion and following Vipers kind request i wll not vioce anymore.

 

But i will let these guys do it for me.

:mad::furious::censored::badmood::eek:

[WildBillKelsoe]

These things have been stated often enough.

 

Once the A-10 has finally been released incl. all needed patches (which will be the 1.1.1 one next week), the nevada map will be the next thing (where we´ll have to pay for again...just to say it early enough). At this point we can expect new informtion regarding to a new Module. So expect the very earliest new information according to a new Module around March or May 2012 at the very earliest...my guess.

 

Anythings new about the new installer?

 

OK, I'll wait for some photos and videos to decide. Also, the issue is not a tantrum, but rather a spark of a lead of questions pertaining to the product at hand. I mean I wanted the trees to cause collision, and the AI to not shoot through the mountains.. It's pretty realism I'm asking for. I love the shark, less the A-10c (d.t. harware issues), But the information provided is so vague, and we need a thorough clarification. BTW, I'm getting an iPad 2 this month, in conjunction with Blackshark 2!! Out of curiosity, will my machine still handle the shark? Sony Vaio VPCEA16FA?? This is my graphics settings which are good on FPS except on FARP/Flying near too much units..

 

Textures High

Cockpit High

Water medium

Shadows Active planar

res cock display 512

birds 0%

view distance medium

civ traffic off

heat blur on

 

 

 

To ED: Please post HD photos and videos for BS2 on your youtube channel. I guess you will do it anyways!

[159th_Viper]

OK, I'll wait for some photos and videos to decide....

 

In the interim, here's a thread on the subject:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80938

[PatriotCFS]

I would like the chance to voice my opinion on the subject.

When I first purchased BS it was around 2008 and the price was about 30 bucks. Not bad for 3 years of entertainment. Now if 20 more gets me another 2 years of enjoyment, it will be well worth the investment.

Most games have a price tag of $50 and up, and end up on a shelve after a year or so... I think it's a very good deal for the customer for what they have to pay vs. what they get in return with EDs games.

[kiss4luna]

for ED, i highly suggest that lower the price for any other incoming "patch" like bs2, wh2, fc3 or anything like this

 

an example:

black shark for 49.99$, then a bs2 "patch" for 14.99$ or less for those who already bought black shark and automatically update it to ver 2. and a full standalone version bs2 for another 49.99$ for those who dont have bs.

 

and honestly, bs2 and fc2 should be called a DLC, which really doesn't add any significant "new" content, and should not charge too much.

years ago when i translate the ed official anouncements, i thought the flyable aircraft would be charged as a complex dlc for about 30$ or above based on the same engine platform. if users want to upgrade their game engine for new features like dynamic weather, HDR, cockpit shadows,different map area etc, they can pay another money for it --- this is what is done now in microsoft flight simulator series.

but currently the ed mode, buy a patch for tens of dollars, is not acceptable by many people. cause guys want a general platform that supports many different aircrafts or vehicles and let players be able to connect to each other. you should either upgrade the platform for all users for all the new engine features, and let different people choose which aircraft or vehicle module they want to buy. or dont put a pay-needed "upgrade" out so quickly. because people like to pay much more for a bunch of whole new content, but don't even like to pay a bit for a tiny "update".

[MadTommy]

Would also like to add my voice to ask for further details about BS2. The information is so vague. Especially when compared to any patch release log from ED.

 

I would really appreciate some quantification to some of the comments, like improved AI. Such a statement could be hugely significant or completely trivial.

 

Please ED provide a detailed post regarding what we are actually being offered for sale.

Edited November 4, 2011 by MadTommy
typo

[kylania]

Black Shark 2 is Black Shark 1 brought to the quality and feature level of A-10C. Yes, it includes improved AI. It's basically the game that Black Shark would have been had it been released today. It's vastly superior to Black Shark 1.

[MadTommy]

Black Shark 2 is Black Shark 1 brought to the quality and feature level of A-10C. Yes, it includes improved AI. It's basically the game that Black Shark would have been had it been released today. It's vastly superior to Black Shark 1.

 

Thanks.

 

Are the AI improvements simply what we presently see in A10c.. or are there things added beyond this?

 

Are the mission editor updates just what we have in A10c or have there been new things on top added?

 

This is the kind of info i'd like to know about, cheers.

[159th_Viper]

 

Are the AI improvements simply what we presently see in A10c.. or are there things added beyond this?

 

Are the mission editor updates just what we have in A10c or have there been new things on top added?

 

 

Hang tight - I'll see what I can find out. No guarantees though, apart from what has already been mentioned in the press-release. Yes, I know that you are aware of that and are requesting further clarification - just might not be forthcoming in a hurry. Would certainly be advisable to rely on the advices of your peers in the interim.

[ARM505]

I kind of always pictured the DCS series like Rise of Flight - You have your basic engine, then aircraft get plugged into this as they become available, and as/if you buy them. In the meantime, the basic engine (common components) get updated for all.

 

I'm aware this isn't going to happen now - if it was, it would have been like that from the start. For me the price is irrelevant, and I also understand that people who make stuff need to be paid properly. It's just that this path seems like it won't realise the goal (my own opinion of course) of a dynamic world populated by a whole bunch of players, all using their vehicle of choice.

 

Lockon (pay), then FC(pay). FC couldn't work with Lockon.

 

BS(pay) - couldn't work with anything initially. FC2 comes out (pay), now FC2 and BS (after patch) can play together.

 

A10 comes out (pay), can't work with anything. BS2 (pay) comes out, A10 needs to be patched, but will now work with BS2, which will now no longer work with FC2. Nevade planned to be released (pay for some) - no doubt more compatablity patching needed to make this work across the series too.

 

I hope my point is becoming a little clearer. I mention the (pay) point, not out of financial concern, but since those indicate fragmentary points in the developement of a 'populated world', or even just the community. Again I realise that this is my little fantasy, but I think that a) it's a cool idea, and b) a lot of others here have the same sort of idea. And again, I'll mention ROF's model of a common engine, with aircraft available according to choice. At the moment, every little improvement has to be individually added to each product. We have some improvements in BS2 that aren't in A10 for example.

 

I did read more than half of this thread, apologies if I'm just restating something. In my defence, it's a huge thread.

[Trident]

I'd happily pay 100$ for a DCS-Module and I am very happy it only costs 50-60$.

 

Hear, Hear! Compare DCS titles to Steel Beasts Pro PE (which you definitely can, IMHO!) and they're a complete steal at this price. At the same time, the complaints about BS2 being an "unexpected surcharge" do resonate with me in some ways - I don't agree with such a big backlash over a measly 20$, but I can see where these people are coming from in principle. No doubt ED made their earlier comments in good faith, knowing that the DCS architecture was not originally designed to be modular but believing these issues to be surmountable and only later running into unexpected trouble.

 

Personally, I think ED's mistake is not to ask for additional money per se but how/when they are doing so. Sell the individual modules for a higher price (say anywhere between 70 to 120$), of which a big chunk goes toward supporting compatibility and upgrades to the basic engine. That way everybody always knows up front what they're paying for.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Trident

[empeck]

Hear, Hear! Compare DCS titles to Steel Beasts Pro PE (which you definitely can, IMHO!)

 

SB Pro PE is ONE product. ED offers us THREE products and charged for upgrade of two of them already. See the difference? If DCS would follow SP Pro PE pricing ($100 + $25 for annual upgrade) and features (multiple playable units in one sim and multiplayer compatibility) I would keep my mouth shut and happily pay them.

[EvilBivol-1]

Unfortunately that simple idea quickly breaks down in practice, unless we limit our sales to our own website. Retailers who carry our product have their own ideas and limits regarding price points. These are generally guided by normal costs of other games they carry.

[Trident]

SB Pro PE is ONE product. ED offers us THREE products and charged for upgrade of two of them already. See the difference? If DCS would follow SP Pro PE pricing ($100 + $25 for annual upgrade) and features (multiple playable units in one sim and multiplayer compatibility) I would keep my mouth shut and happily pay them.

 

You're making my point. The model I proposed is not quite the same though (no "annual fee", and only one aircraft per module).

Edited November 4, 2011 by Trident

[LosT_SouL_VL]

This is quoted from the first post :

 

*New air, land, and sea AI units at incredible levels of detail*

 

 

Can someone tell my what units are new in BS2 ?

[bogusheadbox]

SB Pro PE is ONE product. ED offers us THREE products and charged for upgrade of two of them already. See the difference? If DCS would follow SP Pro PE pricing ($100 + $25 for annual upgrade) and features (multiple playable units in one sim and multiplayer compatibility) I would keep my mouth shut and happily pay them.

 

Well its quite clear the bean counters at ED seriously FUBAR'd on the development cost per cycle and expected revenue per item.

 

For me what should have happened, is a larger retail price per packet (based on realistic / conservative marketing figures) which incorporates aggregated costs for the deveolpment cycles and kept patching as free.

 

That way the online community is kept as a whole (which promotes the product) and would serve as better backdrop for future sales.

 

But noooooo.....

 

What do i know?

 

<well i do know its not the DCS product they marketed to us many years ago>

[Trident]

Unfortunately that simple idea quickly breaks down in practice, unless we limit our sales to our own website. Retailers who carry our product have their own ideas and limits regarding price points. These are generally guided by normal costs of other games they carry.

 

There already seems to be a substantial disconnect in some ways between the DCS versions distributed by various channels anyway, would it really be impossible to charge different prices for the boxed and downloadable versions? Keep current practise for the retail sales and ask more money (but free compatibility/upgrades) for the downloadable version.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Trident