Another Red Arrows Incident

[Eddie]

Another incident involing the Red Arrows, appears that one of the pilots has ejected while on the ground. No information regarding injuries yet though.

 

Fingers crossed those involved are ok, but the current silence from the MoD/RAF is a bit worrying, never a good sign.

 

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16106063

 

EDIT:

 

The latest I've heard is that one of the jet's seats went of during taxi.

 

Edit 2:

 

BBC news have photos showing the aircraft still on the pan, hadn't even started to taxi. No signs of fire or anything either so it could have been a maulfunction with the seat, hopefully the pilot has no major injuries.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Eddie

[kam]

Pilot died, RIP.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15640104

[RIPTIDE]

Damn. Sad news. Someone explain to me how a pilot can die like this? I know ejections are violent... is it because maybe he's head down and it snaps his neck when not prepared? :(

[Jona33]

That's terrible news. So soon after Jon Egging. RIP.

[BIGNEWY]

R.I.P :(

[hassata]

Terrible :(. Maybe the seat was armed and mis-fired before the pilot was fully strapped?

 

As much as it pains me to say, with all the cut backs, maybe they should think about disbanding or going to propellars and putting the savings towards something operational.

Edited November 8, 2011 by hassata

[Eddie]

Damn. Sad news. Someone explain to me how a pilot can die like this? I know ejections are violent... is it because maybe he's head down and it snaps his neck when not prepared? :(

 

Ejections that go exactly as planned can be fatal. The forces involved are enormous.

 

It wasn't nice driving past Scampton on the way home tonight, it's never nice seeing a pilot die, but 2 in such a short time and especially when one wasn't even in the air.........

[winz]

RIP :(

[Pilotasso]

Unbelievably sad news. RIP. :(

[MackTheKnight]

Words cannot express this very sad news. :( RIP

[Sov13t]

RIP

[Blaze]

This has been a very rough season for airshows. Lots of close friends and great aviators lost. RIP. :(

[MTFDarkEagle]

RIP...

[G00dnight]

pilot was ejected whilst sat on the pan canopy closed so presumably strapped in, looks like a freak accident maybe the injuries were caused by landing badly or on something..RIP..

[BillyCrusher]

R.I.P.

[Cowboy10uk]

 

As much as it pains me to say, with all the cut backs, maybe they should think about disbanding or going to propellars and putting the savings towards something operational.

 

I'm sorry Hassata, but this would be the worst possible thing to happen, Yes we are cost cutting, Yes the Reds cost money, However what they provide in PR for both the Royal air force and the Country, not to mention all the joy they bring, they more than account for the cost.

 

You say swap to props, realistically what could they use, Tacano maybe, although still expensive to run and still with ejection seat dangers, all other prop aircraft just couldn't do the job. While the Hawk is getting old, it's a wonderful aircraft, and a fantastic trainer.

 

While we don't know what went wrong and proberly won't for some time, I think speculating dosnt help anyone.

 

There are so many things that could have gone wrong, I don't think anyone will know until the full report comes out.

 

Also we need to think of the team themselves, They are a very close knit and dedicated bunch of lads and lasses, who where having to come to term with loosing one of their team mates. To loose another one only a few months later must be totally deverstating.

 

Just think of what would happen, if on top of that, the team that they have all given blood sweat and tears to, is called to shut down, or god forbid, shut down due to knee jerk reactions.

 

My thoughts are with all the family and friends to those who have passed, as well as the entire team, who must be greatly suffering in this very very sad Year of air display tragedys.

 

Cowboy10uk

[hassata]

There is a ton of history there, it's true.

[tflash]

tragic! RIP

[CarneyUK]

Another very sad loss. RIP.

 

I always thought the seats were designed to allow ejection from the ground anyway?

[Cowboy10uk]

Another very sad loss. RIP.

 

I always thought the seats were designed to allow ejection from the ground anyway?

 

 

Not all seats.

 

However even if it was a zero / zero seat, every ejection is still very very dangerous. The forces involved are Hugh.

 

No one will know what happened until the report though.

[LARGE]

how the **** is this even possible.. jeasus... RIP :(

[BIGNEWY]

All non-essential training flights of RAF planes with mark 10 ejection seat suspended

 

http://www.martin-baker.com/products/Ejection-Seats/Mk--10.aspx

[JaseGill]

Anyone who has ever climbed into a bang-seat (and I've climbed into a few) has the utmost respect for the equipment and is ultra careful as far as arming and dis-arming the seat.

 

They aren't however faultless and there are plenty of stories involving ejections within limits that have resulted in injury, paralysis and worse death.

 

The Mk10 in the Hawk is a zero/zero seat. As such even on dispersal ejections "should" be survivable. Should being the operative word.

 

Going to the Tucano wont help much and would have been potentially worse. The Tucano Mk8 seat (unless its been replaced by the Mk10 since my days) is a Zero/70 seat. It requires 70 kts airspeed to function. Banging out on the dispersal would therefore be near suicidal in itself.

 

The best thing to do here is not speculate, allow AAIB to do their job and wait to see what the cause was. From the pictures it looks like he or she (lets not forget there is a female Red in the team) was strapped in and that the detonator cord has gone, the canopy with it and the rail that the seat rides clear of the aircraft on is extended. That hints, but doesn't guarantee that it was a command eject from the front seat and that the back seat was probably un-occupied, at least un-armed. Beyond that no-one knows more other than those at the site at the time and the AAIB as far as the investigation goes so far.

 

Anyone who knee-jerks into shutting the team down is an idiot. We all when we signed up knew the risks, yet we accepted them anyway. Granted most of us expected the ultimate sacrifice to come accompanied with a hail of bullets. No-one signed up to die in peacetime, but it happens. That doesn't belittle the loss to the team, the RAF or the wider aviation community. The fact that it happens so close to the weekend that we remember the fallen only makes it more poignant.

 

The season has taken quite a hit this year both Military and in the Warbird communities and one assumes that it'll have reverberations around the community for some time. Lets all just hope that this is the last one for a long time and that any decisions made are sensible, full fact, informed ones. We have buried enough friends this year, lets hope this one is the last, even though we know it could and quite probably wont be.

 

Lets not forget either the translation on the badge we all wore, its not "Per Ardua Ad Astra" for nothing.

 

RIP. Lest we forget.

[Groove]

Even zero-zero seats have limitations where a ejection is potentially fatal.

 

RIP.

[JaseGill]

Pilot named as Flt Lt Sean Cunningham.

RIP Red 5.

May you always have Tail Winds and Blue Skies.

 

Lest we forget.