Why overcomplicate AGM-65 power up procedure?

[Lozzo87]

So, I have just examined the tutorial for DSMS familiarization and something is niggling at me.

 

There is quite a vast array of options to let your AGMs power up if certain criteria is reached. Such as when a certain amount of time elapses, or if you get within a certain distance and bearing of a selected waypoint.

 

This is great. But.... why bother?

 

Why cant I just power up the AGMs as part of my start up procedure and leave them switched on? Why bother entering so many settings to have the luxury of automatic power up when I can quickly switch them on myself before flight?

 

Some insight would be appreciated!

Edited April 12, 2012 by Lozzo87

[MTFDarkEagle]

IRL the AGM's sensors will only perform well for 30 minutes. After 30 minutes the sensors are degrading (not modelled as far as I know). Generally, I just switch them on on the MAV page on the INGRESS point.

 

The automated power up is just a help function so you won't have to do it, it happens automatically. It's just what you prefer I suppose.

[sobek]

Why cant I just power up the AGMs as part of my start up procedure and leave them switched on? Why bother entering so many settings to have the luxury of automatic power up when I can quickly switch them on myself before flight?

 

Because the sensors will overheat if left on for prolonged time, which results in degraded image quality and ultimately the weapon becoming useless.

 

Edit: Sniped. :P:)

[Longbow116]

Hi,

 

its up to you which way you power the AGM's up. I use the time option, and have them ready on station than needed. But sometimes, i just press the EO button.

 

But of course, im also interested in the opinion of other Pilots.

 

best regards

Longi

[Lozzo87]

Thanks for the quick response. I don't know why it just really bugged me!

 

If only IRL, then I guess certain clans/ squadrons would opt to have super realism rules on their servers which includes doing stuff which isn't modelled.

[sobek]

If only IRL, then I guess certain clans/ squadrons would opt to have super realism rules on their servers which includes doing stuff which isn't modelled.

 

Sensor degradation is modelled within the sim. ;) Maybe not in the same way it affects RL sensors, but IIRC the distance at which you will be able to achieve a lock will decrease greatly until at some point you won't be able to lock at all.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Sensor degradation is modelled within the sim. ;) Maybe not in the same way it affects RL sensors, but IIRC the distance at which you will be able to achieve a lock will decrease greatly until at some point you won't be able to lock at all.

Ah nice! I thought is was not modelled.

[Lozzo87]

Sensor degradation is modelled within the sim. ;) Maybe not in the same way it affects RL sensors, but IIRC the distance at which you will be able to achieve a lock will decrease greatly until at some point you won't be able to lock at all.

 

Super nice!!

[sobek]

This is all if my memory doesn't betray me, mind you. It has been known to happen. :D

[Frostiken]

This is all if my memory doesn't betray me, mind you. It has been known to happen. :D

 

Can you find out for me? This is something that over the many moons I've been on this forum has never conclusively been said to exist, usually someone saying they're "pretty sure" is the best we can get :( Seen plenty of these threads and people are telling other players to ignore the warning, does nothing, etc.

[Longbow116]

Sensor degradation is modelled within the sim. ;) Maybe not in the same way it affects RL sensors, but IIRC the distance at which you will be able to achieve a lock will decrease greatly until at some point you won't be able to lock at all.

 

 

That's why i love DCS! :thumbup:

[baltic_dragon]

Can you find out for me? This is something that over the many moons I've been on this forum has never conclusively been said to exist, usually someone saying they're "pretty sure" is the best we can get :( Seen plenty of these threads and people are telling other players to ignore the warning, does nothing, etc.

 

Well, I for sure was flying with my E/O on and after 30 minutes I got a warning message. Difficult to tell if there was any difference in time of attaining lock, though - visually nothing changed, but I had to get pretty close to the target to be able to shoot..

[Tailgate]

Of course the solution would be for a programmer to check the source code. Is there a function for the degradation after 30 minutes?

[XarBat]

Here is a better question: if the AGM's sensor's overheat after 30 minutes; how come there is no option to turn them on or off individually? You can only turn them all on or off at the same time.

 

Sensor degradation is modelled within the sim. ;) Maybe not in the same way it affects RL sensors, but IIRC the distance at which you will be able to achieve a lock will decrease greatly until at some point you won't be able to lock at all.

 

Was this added with the latest patch? For me it has never made a difference so far.

[GGTharos]

Why would you want to do such a thing in a real life situation? You either power your weapons or not - it also probably simplifies the design of the rail (you power everything on the rail or not).

 

Here is a better question: if the AGM's sensor's overheat after 30 minutes; how come there is no option to turn them on or off individually? You can only turn them all on or off at the same time.

[sobek]

Here is a better question: if the AGM's sensor's overheat after 30 minutes; how come there is no option to turn them on or off individually?

 

Because then you would need to run three times as many powerlines to the maverick stations for a feature that would probably never be used because it would unnecessarily increase pilot workload to power mavericks up one at a time. It's actually easier to power them all up and then power them down if you want to keep some for later.

[Eddie]

Here is a better question: if the AGM's sensor's overheat after 30 minutes; how come there is no option to turn them on or off individually?

 

They don't.

 

There is a limit of 30 minutes video per missile, per mission. And a limit of 60 minutes total EO power on per mission.

 

The missiles will not suddenly stop working after 30 mins of video, or 60 mins EO on. The missiles will degrade and/or be more prone to failure the longer they are active, but it won't be a sudden failure after 30/60 minutes.

[XarBat]

Why would you want to do such a thing in a real life situation? You either power your weapons or not - it also probably simplifies the design of the rail (you power everything on the rail or not).

 

because they overheat after being on for 30 minutes. If you had two mavericks and you could turn them on or off individually you could have a maverick ready on for < 57 minutes instead of < 27 minutes.

[XarBat]

They don't.

 

There is a limit of 30 minutes video per missile, per mission. And a limit of 60 minutes total EO power on per mission.

 

The missiles will not suddenly stop working after 30 mins of video, or 60 mins EO on. The missiles will degrade and/or be more prone to failure the longer they are active, but it won't be a sudden failure after 30/60 minutes.

 

So it is only called overheating if it suddenly stops working?

[Eddie]

because they overheat after being on for 30 minutes. If you had two mavericks and you could turn them on or off individually you could have a maverick ready on for < 57 minutes instead of < 27 minutes.

 

Why would you need to have EO power on for that long? You're either attacking a target or you're not.

[GGTharos]

You have a couple of basic scenarios here, regardless of the number of 65's you're carrying:

 

A situation where you will be engaged in on-call CAS with immediate use of weapons, in which case you power the weapons as soon as you're called in (this is also the case if you're hunting for vehicles in some area and you don't know when/if you will find any. No emergency calls).

 

A situation where you know the location of your targets, you know what weapons you will be using on them, and so you power your weapons on aproach and use them all ASAP (consider a fulda gap or highway or death scenario).

 

In either case, keeping your 65's on for long periods of time is probably not needed.

[GGTharos]

Overheating material becomes fatigued. Any time you carry a missile on a rail and you don't use it, it loses shelf life. In the case of the 65, if you overheat it, it probably loses even more shelf-life, or it may become damaged on the spot as well if you keep it on well beyond the allowed time limits.

 

So it is only called overheating if it suddenly stops working?

[SUBS17]

Why would you need to have EO power on for that long? You're either attacking a target or you're not.

 

I've had them overheat on me from being on station for over 30mins with them powered up so it is modelled. How it happened was I turnned them on and then forgot about them while using other weapons during a trainning mission.:thumbup: You don't always have to fly by the book BTW sometimes it can take a while to find some targets(particularly a Tungaska hiding in a location not setup as a target in one of my trainning missions).:thumbup:

[Grimes]

Hmmm, if degradation is modeled, what occurs in the following scenarios?

 

1. EO Power warning at 30 minutes, you turn the missiles off, and back on again shortly. Will the degradation potentially occur immediately or must it wait another 30 minutes?

 

2. You power your EO on only when needed, say its only on for 10 minutes at a time. Eventually will there be degradation? The missile could be powered on for 60+ minutes but never more than just a few minutes at a given time.

[tintifaxl]

Good question. I'd like to know that, too.