Su-25T...what a turd

[RichardG]

I've been messing around for a few days and getting into the heads of the engineers on this one. It seems really outclassed by U.S. hardware. It might be a good aircraft for taking out some, chechen rebels somewhere, but on a modern battlefield it ain't gonna make it. Maybe they have 10,000 of these aircraft to throw into the front, but if you don't know right where the enemy is located (unlikely in modern mobile warfare), it isn't going to survive.

 

I would make some mission to prove my hypothesis if it wasn't so damned complicated to do.

 

Thought from some fellow pilots of this thing?

[cichlidfan]

:tomato:

[blaster454]

Nothing wrong with the T-Frog.

[Boberro]

LOL this plane was to be ready at 1990 not 2012.

In current battle most likely lonely plane would not survive. This is why you've got upgrades, A-10A got it not without reason. Now the Hog is much more powerful than creepy ancestor.

What about Su-25A :D It is much more post II World War plane at all :D

 

Generally n0_0bs can't play Su-25T - brutal truth. But in capable hands it is deadly.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Boberro

[Pikey]

Tried SEAD?

[159th_Viper]

The Su-25 Tankovy was designed to kill Tanks - pure and simple. It does so with ruthless efficiency and coupled with DEAD capability and effective air to air ordinance in the R-73, makes it a very effective Attack aircraft. But as with all these discussions and keeping in mind the distinction between RL and SIM doctrine, it's what the plane is capable of in the hands of an experienced and capable Pilot that matters at the end of the day.

 

I'll dabble in other craft, but the Toad will always be my ride of choice.

[GGTharos]

You hypothesis isn't worth much. This is an aircraft designed to fight in the cold war; it's old. The Su-25T presented in DCSW is a very early prototype. The Su-25SM has similar upgrades to the A-10C for example (but not quite as good). You're basically trash talking without understanding what the aircraft is, where and when it came from, etc.

 

I've been messing around for a few days and getting into the heads of the engineers on this one. It seems really outclassed by U.S. hardware. It might be a good aircraft for taking out some, chechen rebels somewhere, but on a modern battlefield it ain't gonna make it. Maybe they have 10,000 of these aircraft to throw into the front, but if you don't know right where the enemy is located (unlikely in modern mobile warfare), it isn't going to survive.

 

I would make some mission to prove my hypothesis if it wasn't so damned complicated to do.

 

Thought from some fellow pilots of this thing?

[Novum]

Su-25 for me is another beast then the A-10

 

A-10 you need to take home. feed. give a lot of love, cuddle... you know where im getting ;)

 

SU-25 vodka and enemys is enough

 

</Irony>

 

its a bit wrong to compare them to the numbers..

Its another "thinking" behind the Frog

[RichardG]

The Su-25T presented in DCSW is a very early prototype. The Su-25SM has similar upgrades to the A-10C for example (but not quite as good)

 

I didn't know that. I thought the 25T was their latest and greatest.

 

It does seem to be better at SEAD than its primary roll of ground attack.

 

I'm determined to make a mission now to prove my point. [grin]

[GGTharos]

It can -do- SEAD but in reality there are more numerous and capable aircraft with that capability. If/when we get some proper IADS, you'll find the toad somewhat inadequate for SEAD most of the time.

 

In game, where SEAD=DEAD and the SAMs aren't exactly doing anything clever, nor are they equipped with decoys, it certainly would appear to be good at it.

[Sierra99]

I've been messing around for a few days and getting into the heads of the engineers on this one. It seems really outclassed by U.S. hardware.

 

If the Toad is like most other Soviet aircraft, it might be deceiving. By that I mean when Victor Belenko defected to Japan with the MIG25... Western scientists were STUNNED to learn Soviets were still using Vacuum Tube technology. However, after they got to looking they realized the Vacuum Tubes were NEW (1970s) technology and very very robust. More importantly they were not susceptible to EMP the way transistors and IC's are.

 

I have no first hand knowledge but in some cases... the aircraft aren't the issue... its the pilots.

[Buzpilot]

LOL this plane was to be ready at 1990 not 2012.

In current battle most likely lonely plane would not survive. This is why you've got upgrades, A-10A got it not without reason. Now the Hog is much more powerful than creepy ancestor.

What about Su-25A :D It is much more post II World War plane at all :D

 

Generally n0_0bs can't play Su-25T - brutal truth. But in capable hands it is deadly.

 

AFAIK the Toad ingame is up to todays standard, the Beryoza is upgraded to detect lock from Patriot radar, at least some testers in here said so in a different thread.

 

Patriot does not use TWS. It uses SWT and with the right hardware yes, you can pick up the lock depending on the exact details of the tracking mode used.

What do you mean by lock tone? The steady audible warning tone, which then transitions into the intermittent launch tone with the flashing Beryoza lamp? If so, then yeah, that is normal.

 

Launch at about 6000ft.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Buzpilot

[26-J39]

Learn the craft of air before the aircraft. :D

[WildBillKelsoe]

The Grach is my favourite. I wish DCS could make it a module AFM and avionics.

[MadTommy]

The phrase "you can't polish a turd" has now lost any credibility. :)

[JCamel]

I've been messing around for a few days and getting into the heads of the engineers on this one. It seems really outclassed by U.S. hardware. It might be a good aircraft for taking out some, chechen rebels somewhere, but on a modern battlefield it ain't gonna make it. Maybe they have 10,000 of these aircraft to throw into the front, but if you don't know right where the enemy is located (unlikely in modern mobile warfare), it isn't going to survive.

 

I would make some mission to prove my hypothesis if it wasn't so damned complicated to do.

 

Thought from some fellow pilots of this thing?

It is more difficult to fly because it seems to have far less lift at low speeds but the weapon load is pretty clever.

 

By going for smaller Vikhr anti-tank missiles, it can carry 16 guided AT missiles with the same range as the Maverick. The smaller Mavericks are too big for things like tanks and too small for bunkers. The Vikhr has the same range as the Maverick and is faster (Mach 1.8 ).

 

The A-10C struggles is missions like CSAR where you have 4 SAM systems and 3 MBTs and only 4-6 missiles depending on whether you edit or not. You either have to use the gun and play chicken with a SAM, waste a cluster bomb, or make several passes on the T-72s, while being pelted by AAA. Even the BTR-80's 30mm is no joke on a moving turret. It would be far easier just to use a guided missile on everyone of those suckers.

 

For longer range SAMs, you have the Kh-58 and for hardened targets, the Kh-29L or laser-guided 340mm rockets. The GSh-2-30 easily takes care of lightly armoured stuff when you've ran out of missiles and for heavier armour you can use swarms of 57mm rockets from the 32x57mm pods. I'd comfortably wage 1 57mm rocket against 100 30mm rounds.

 

As regards knowing where the enemy is, that's always the battle.

 

My only gripes are as follows:

 

1. Lack of proper training missions;

 

2. No short-cut for start-up and shut-down;

 

3. No clickable cockpit.

 

I have howevered stumbled on how to use rockets, cannon, gun pods and dumb bombs and have proceeded to torment local civilian populations.

Edited July 16, 2012 by JCamel

[JABO2009]

is any modernised variant of the Su25 capable of operating at night? I love to fly with the Su25T, but as far as I experienced , u cannot fight with it at night or did I miss any targeting pod for doing so? I guess not.

[JCamel]

Mercury pod?

 

There is an Su-25TM too I believe.

[Brisse]

is any modernised variant of the Su25 capable of operating at night? I love to fly with the Su25T, but as far as I experienced , u cannot fight with it at night or did I miss any targeting pod for doing so? I guess not.

 

There is the Mercury pod for that but it's not very capable compared to modern targeting pods.

[JABO2009]

Mercury pod?

 

There is an Su-25TM too I believe.

 

correct me , if Im wrong , but this variant isnt flyable in DCSW.

[Joe Johnson]

To my mind it's a pitty that so many people here think that an older plane is "bad". I think it's more of a challange. Try to get along with what you have.

It's like going hunting in real life. Wouldn't it be boring if you just press a button and the deer drops dead on the ground? Thats why I would prefer a F-4 Phantom over a F-22 and I have so much fun in the KA-50. And I would love a War-Theatre in the 70ies or 80ies, where only a few BVR engaements result in a kill and you have IR A-A missiles with only rear aspect abilities, no JDAMs, etc...

Sure its fun to learn how the TGP works and it would be fun to learn all the stuff in a F-22 but the satisfaction of a kill drops with more sophisticated equipment - at least to me.

[Boberro]

is any modernised variant of the Su25 capable of operating at night? I love to fly with the Su25T, but as far as I experienced , u cannot fight with it at night or did I miss any targeting pod for doing so? I guess not.

For night ops there are illumination candles and LLTV Merkurij.

Choppers or other planes (vehicles) shoot illumination candles and voila :)

 

 

There is the Mercury pod for that but it's not very capable compared to modern targeting pods.

This LLTV was rejected by WWS due to its very low value... :)

 

correct me , if Im wrong , but this variant isnt flyable in DCSW.

It can be - I enabled it on my server and added Kh-31P and double Vikhr pack (4 packs together). It changes a battlefield a bit, especially long range Kh-31P.

 

To my mind it's a pitty that so many people here think that an older plane is "bad". I think it's more of a challange. Try to get along with what you have.

It's like going hunting in real life. Wouldn't it be boring if you just press a button and the deer drops dead on the ground? Thats why I would prefer a F-4 Phantom over a F-22 and I have so much fun in the KA-50. And I would love a War-Theatre in the 70ies or 80ies, where only a few BVR engaements result in a kill and you have IR A-A missiles with only rear aspect abilities, no JDAMs, etc...

Sure its fun to learn how the TGP works and it would be fun to learn all the stuff in a F-22 but the satisfaction of a kill drops with more sophisticated equipment - at least to me.

Well, for fun yes. Sometimes older is more "funny" but on the battlefield there is no mercy.

And OP is right - on the battlefield lonely Su-25T would have been lost more likely than A-10C... but who would send 1990 plane for modern battlefield if you have newer versions? Nobody, except those who can't send anything else. ^^

[JABO2009]

To my mind it's a pitty that so many people here think that an older plane is "bad". I think it's more of a challange. Try to get along with what you have.

It's like going hunting in real life. Wouldn't it be boring if you just press a button and the deer drops dead on the ground? Thats why I would prefer a F-4 Phantom over a F-22 and I have so much fun in the KA-50. And I would love a War-Theatre in the 70ies or 80ies, where only a few BVR engaements result in a kill and you have IR A-A missiles with only rear aspect abilities, no JDAMs, etc...

Sure its fun to learn how the TGP works and it would be fun to learn all the stuff in a F-22 but the satisfaction of a kill drops with more sophisticated equipment - at least to me.

 

 

+ 1 :

 

F4 vs mig 21

 

 

more IR A2A battles would be much more fun than endless BVR battles

 

like in many cases, the balance between IR A2A and BVR radar fights will be the way to go..

Edited July 16, 2012 by JABO2009

[JimMack]

If you do not know about it, there are a number of videos here about the Su25

http://flankertraining.com/ironhand/a2g.htm

[JCamel]

correct me , if Im wrong , but this variant isnt flyable in DCSW.

Sadly no, but the Mercury pod is on the Su-25T.

 

The TM introduced a few other avionics upgrades including an air-to-air radar and some radar guided missiles, giving it a bit of a leg up in air-to-air engagements.