DCS SA342 Gazelle Project

[Frusheen]

Mine transferred from beta then downloaded an additional 80mb.

 

Seems much more stable during initial lift off.

[MAD_MIKE]

Gazelle's flight model is really terrible. Helicopters difinitelly dont fly like this. Devs, do you use scripted Ka-50 flight model?

[Mt5_Roie]

Nope, we worked hard with actual Gazelle pilots and crew to make the flight model as realistic as possible. In fact, we had five active duty gazelle pilots recently and they were highly impressed by the flight model. They made suggestions for tweaks to make, and we are working with them to make it even more realistic. In fact, they said some aspects of our module were more realistic then their flight simulator. So were on the right track.

 

My suggestion is to give it a week of practice. We saw these posts when it first came out, and then people learned to fly her.

 

Gazelle's flight model is really terrible. Helicopters difinitelly dont fly like this. Devs, do you use scripted Ka-50 flight model?

[MAD_MIKE]

Okay, how about long sinusoidal attenuation of yaw(left, right, left, right...) after long turnings? How about very fast spinning on hovering(2-3 times at second) by full right pedal?

[Mt5_Roie]

Those are known as pilot induced ossiliations. You need to fly her very gently. There are plenty of YouTube videos that show how to fly her. I also recommend Chucks guide as well. In all, she takes time to learn.

[MAD_MIKE]

Ok, sanks for answers

[Rogue Trooper]

This is an interesting series about cadets trying to join the UK army helicopter corps. It is really about the gazelle.

 

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The great thing about this series is that in some shots the camera location is on the dash which allows you to watch the noob and experienced pilot's controller inputs with reference to the horizon out the rear left and right windows.

the noobs in a turn cannot hold roll attitude just like me but the experienced pilots can.

She is very responsive in these vids.

[DSPALLASVI]

Thanks, what a great BBC video series about the Gazelle!!

Sure enjoy watching it, very informative!

[Rogue Trooper]

The way the experienced pilot throws the collective around in a hover is very interesting.... its all twitchy in this girl!

Its something I have started to use more in co ordinated turns and works quite nicely.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Rogue Trooper

[Mt5_Roie]

So I just watched like 4 episodes of that series and I'm surprised I can fly her at all. Those guys get 11 hours to learn how to solo her...took me a lot longer then that and I'm still pretty crappy at landings.

[kuabi]

So I just watched like 4 episodes of that series and I'm surprised I can fly her at all. Those guys get 11 hours to learn how to solo her...took me a lot longer then that and I'm still pretty crappy at landings.

 

I too noticed that. How much is down to our own controllers. I have stiff spring pedals which certainly don't help with the delicate touches needed for this hormonal lady :joystick:

[Yurgon]

So I just watched like 4 episodes of that series and I'm surprised I can fly her at all. Those guys get 11 hours to learn how to solo her...took me a lot longer then that and I'm still pretty crappy at landings.

 

I thought the same.

 

Granted, they get flight instructors and a lot of preparation. Still, 11 hours is not a lot of stick-time to get anywhere near comfortable. I'm impressed that's even possible.

[Dahlbeck]

I just zapped through, but recall they had flown (qualified for?) fixed wing aircraft. For a fixed wing, around ten flight hours before solo is normal, so given that they already kind of are pilots, maybe it's not too far fetched.

[Yurgon]

I just zapped through, but recall they had flown (qualified for?) fixed wing aircraft. For a fixed wing, around ten flight hours before solo is normal, so given that they already kind of are pilots, maybe it's not too far fetched.

 

Before their first fixed wing solo in a Chipmunk, they were only given 5 flight hours. :smartass:

 

I don't recall how many total flight hours they got in those before they transitioned to the Gazelle, but it's not like they were accomplished or experienced aviators by that time. Not that it matters much how good someone know their fixed wing when they first fly a chopper anyway. :D

[Rangi]

Having an experienced instructor giving real time feedback would make a huge difference to the speed of learning.

[Rogue Trooper]

Having an experienced instructor giving real time feedback would make a huge difference to the speed of learning.

 

This would also be helpful in sim with multipit and the civilian gazelle (dual controls).

[MAD_MIKE]

IMHO any way, flight model is wrong. Explain me yaw occillation. I have a very good custom joystick and pedals - floor mounted long rod BRD N4. Because, gentle controls is not a problem.

[NeilWillis]

Flight model is fine as far as most of us can tell, so I wouldn't go down that route again. Just keep practicing, and remember - real world you get all kinds of feedback that you simply cannot replicate in a sim. 3D vision, accelleration, stick forces, not to mention the fact that a qualified instructor demonstrating everything while you lightly hold the collective and cyclic, and also rest your feet on the torque pedals gives a lot of muscle memory assistance.

 

The real world and a sim are very different animals, so don't expect to get it right quickly - just practice and then practice even more. It will come, providing you don't try to blame everything but your skills!

[MAD_MIKE]

I know, sim is not real, but maybe real is sim))

[il_corleone]

IMHO any way, flight model is wrong. Explain me yaw occillation. I have a very good custom joystick and pedals - floor mounted long rod BRD N4. Because, gentle controls is not a problem.

 

Hey! Hello!

 

I suggest you to expend as much hours as you can, testing things and trying to tame her.

 

I am a user without pedals and finally I can fly her without many problems, the FM for me is from 0 to 10 at least a 9 in this moment, it will improve with updates.

[gospadin]

Flight model is fine as far as most of us can tell, so I wouldn't go down that route again.

 

You're convinced that translational lift is working properly?

[Drakoz]

Regarding learning to fly a real helicopter, I believe most students get the basics of flight (i.e. are able to reasonably control, take off, land, and perform some basic emergency procedures) in a helicopter within about 10-15 hours. It's all the other training such as flight patterns, airport operations, navigation, rules, etc. that takes up the significant majority of the training time. The people in the BBC series still learned quickly, but it's not so surprising, and it definitively helped to start some of those skills in an airplane.

 

Also regarding learning real vs. sim, it is always more difficult to learn on a PC sim than in the real world. As mentioned already, real has better visibility, physical feedback, etc. and don't underestimate that instructor's impact. I learned more in my 2 hours of helicopter flight training than I learned in probably 6 months of trying to fly DCS Huey. I'm a much better sim pilot because of it. Because flying the real thing told me what to focus on in the sim in order to figure it out.

 

Regards,

Michael

[Zee Pet]

Might be a stupid question, but are forces from air acting over the different surfaces taken into account? There's something that makes this thing feel like its on rails during some conditions, albeit extreme(ish?) ones such as strong tail rotor inputs at low speeds where you're spun as if you're supported by an invisible rod and bearing. I also distinctly remember a time recently in MP when a T80 removed my tail boom entirely and the helicopter fell to the ground rotating perfectly about an axis almost directly through the missile pylons. I mean perfectly; no yaw, no bank, no altitude/acceleration changes when upright vs inverted from air going through the blade disk- nothing, as if it were in a vacuum. Maybe in that specific case I didn't switch off auto hover, but then that leads me to believe the auto hover and autopilot functions (alt hold) are scripted, which is fine but maybe needs some polishing to make it seem more believable. Maybe my view of this is completely wrong and the SAS system is just THAT good? Otherwise IMHO the chopper is great, its done beautifully, I'm putting time in to learn how to control the thing, and its loads of fun and the devs have done a fantastic job, but I can't get past the feeling that somethings a bit off.

[Super18]

Patience is a virtue as they say.

 

First release was for 2.0.2. Second release was for 1.5.3 open beta. Today we released for 1.53.

 

We uploaded the changes Pat mentioned when he posted them, but we need to confirm if they were updated for this release, or if they are going to wait to upgrade all version at the same time. I'm waiting to hear back from some testers about todays release since I'm still at work.

 

Am I beating my head against the wall trying to get this to work in 1.5?

Or did I miss something?

 

--- Log file: C:\Program Files (x86)\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\autoupdate_log.txt

=== Log opened UTC 2016-06-10 12:09:51

INFO : DCS_Updater/2.6.16.58 (Windows NT 6.1.7601; Win64; en-US)

INFO : cmdline: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\bin\DCS_updater.exe" --apply install POLYCHOPSIM_SA342

STATUS: Initializing...

INFO : basedir: C:\Program Files (x86)\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World

INFO : DCS/1.5.3.52478.69 (x86_64; EN; WORLD,RAZBAM_M-2000C,F-86F,A-10C,A-10A,F-15C,SU-27,KA-50,CA,P-51D,SU-25A,KA50-REPUBLIC_campaign,FC3,MIG-15BIS,UH-1H)

INFO : branch:

STATUS: Connecting to update servers...

INFO : Got reply from http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com

INFO : Got reply from srv4.update.digitalcombatsimulator.com

STATUS: Verifying cached version info...

STATUS: Preparing to install POLYCHOPSIM_SA342 ...

ERROR: Unknown module POLYCHOPSIM_SA342

=== Log closed.

[BillyCrusher]

Am I beating my head against the wall trying to get this to work in 1.5?

Or did I miss something?

 

--- Log file: C:\Program Files (x86)\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\autoupdate_log.txt

=== Log opened UTC 2016-06-10 12:09:51

INFO : DCS_Updater/2.6.16.58 (Windows NT 6.1.7601; Win64; en-US)

INFO : cmdline: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\bin\DCS_updater.exe" --apply install POLYCHOPSIM_SA342

STATUS: Initializing...

INFO : basedir: C:\Program Files (x86)\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World

INFO : DCS/1.5.3.52478.69 (x86_64; EN; WORLD,RAZBAM_M-2000C,F-86F,A-10C,A-10A,F-15C,SU-27,KA-50,CA,P-51D,SU-25A,KA50-REPUBLIC_campaign,FC3,MIG-15BIS,UH-1H)

INFO : branch:

STATUS: Connecting to update servers...

INFO : Got reply from http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com

INFO : Got reply from srv4.update.digitalcombatsimulator.com

STATUS: Verifying cached version info...

STATUS: Preparing to install POLYCHOPSIM_SA342 ...

ERROR: Unknown module POLYCHOPSIM_SA342

=== Log closed.

Your version of DCS is outdated. You need to update it and install module then.