Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[Corbett1403]

This was quite a good new video about the vive with the camera use

 

[Kuky]

I am cancelling my OR pre-order. I think I will wait longer, maybe wait for 2nd gen of VR.

[DerekSpeare]

2016 will be a turning point for gaming. This is the year when gamers will receive their first generation of VR hardware. That groundswell will produce the demand for games that run more efficiently in VR. That demand will put pressure on developers to optimize their titles for use with VR hardware.

 

Heretofore, hardware has been very capable, and gamers have had the luxury of being able to enjoy gaming experiences with high frame rates, high quality and high detail. VR arrived and suddenly everything slowed down. Game developers really must pay close attention to ensuring their work runs on VR platforms without trouble. It will be the deciding factor of who stays and who doesn't in the years and decades to come.

[hannibal]

at the rate DCS is progressing, its probably better to wait. by that time, the next gen PC hardware will be better and cheaper. patience is a virtue!

 

but other than that, i am keeping my rift pre-order.

comfort and egronmics win my vote over vive.

in the long run, i dont want a bulk device on my head, and vive is looking bulky despite what everyone says.

 

anyone know anything about Kaby Lake and the next gen intel processors?

[Markeebo]

Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

 

I think things will improve vastly If/when they take SLI seriously. CV1 @90hz is going bring even a single Titan to its knees. Surely the Devs know this and are planning accordingly. IMHO, it's really the only only way to bring VR to the masses.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Corbett1403]

When in March is OR out as we will soon now how it copes in dcs

[TomOnSteam]

This was quite a good new video about the vive with the camera use

 

 

WOAH! That picture in picture mode is very cool. Now I wonder if it's possible to get that picture in picture mode to appear inside the right MFCD in the A-10C :)

[Chivas]

This was quite a good new video about the vive with the camera use

 

 

Is it just me, but isn't the camera view that tiny 1"x1" square, we see on the screen while he's picking up the computer tracking generated image of the controllers.

The very small image does look very clear, but too small to be of much use. Can that image be made larger, and does it lose much resolution when enlarged?

[Enduro14]

remember when we thought the dk2 was a big bump and amazing via youtube videos??? Wont fall for it again until the new one is on the face.

[Chivas]

Detailed Experience: A lot of hours with both Oculus & Vive back to back. Which is right for you?

 

This is close to what I've interpreted from reviews etc over the last few months.

 

If room scale VR is what you want, and don't want to wait and see what the finalized specs of the Touch hardware are, then the Vive should be your choice. You won't go far wrong, but I'm interested in VR in the combat flight sim context.

 

If your more interested in flight sims, then the Rift might be the clearer choice. Pun intended The HUGE QUESTION still unanswered....will the resolution of the first consumer versions be good enough for flight sims. This reviewer suggests, along with many other reviewers that the Rift is clearer, which MIGHT suggest that it may be possible to spot distant aircraft.

 

My experience with the DK2 showed that the combination of SDE, and low resolution made spotting distant aircraft almost impossible. Removing SDE from the equation, along with the CV1's higher resolution than the DK2, MIGHT make it possible.

 

I let you know at the end of March. I'm also very interested in reviews from Vive users in April.

[S3NTRY11]

Is it just me, but isn't the camera view that tiny 1"x1" square, we see on the screen while he's picking up the computer tracking generated image of the controllers.

The very small image does look very clear, but too small to be of much use. Can that image be made larger, and does it lose much resolution when enlarged?

What you're seeing needs to be measured in degrees of view, not as relative to the rest of what we see on the YouTube render. The camera image could be monitor size.

 

Either way, I'm sure it's a practical size, or it would be a little pointless.

[S3NTRY11]

WOAH! That picture in picture mode is very cool. Now I wonder if it's possible to get that picture in picture mode to appear inside the right MFCD in the A-10C :)

 

Hell yeah! Now we're talking!

[Chivas]

What you're seeing needs to be measured in degrees of view, not as relative to the rest of what we see on the YouTube render. The camera image could be monitor size.

 

Either way, I'm sure it's a practical size, or it would be a little pointless.

 

Your right the pic would be the size of a monitor, in VR. I think the camera enhances the Vive chaperone system as intended very well, but I'm struggling to see much benefit for cockpit switch finding.

 

Although a 2D image wouldn't be that much of a benefit, for hand eye coordination. By the time people used muscle memory/feel to find the switch to select the see thru camera, people with muscle memory/feel would have found the cockpit/hotas switch they were looking for in the first place.

 

We should finally have some answers when the Rift and Vive flight sim users start showing up, or when Wags can do an extensive review of the Rift and Vive. I don't think there is an extensive NDA on the Vive, but Wags may be waiting until he's allowed to say something about the Rift as well.

[S3NTRY11]

Your right the pic would be the size of a monitor, in VR. I think the camera enhances the Vive chaperone system as intended very well, but I'm struggling to see much benefit for cockpit switch finding.

 

Although a 2D image wouldn't be that much of a benefit, for hand eye coordination. By the time people used muscle memory/feel to find the switch to select the see thru camera, people with muscle memory/feel would have found the cockpit/hotas switch they were looking for in the first place.

 

This is going to be the big problem with old tech vs new. Mixing paradigms like this is going to be interesting to see implemented. You've nailed the problem - you'll simply end up using muscle memory anyway. It would be great to see a blend of chaperone (or equivalent) with VR inputs, but I think it's just going to be a clunky mess.

 

I'm so excited to see how Touch and Vive wands are implemented in DCS. At first I thought it too would be clunky, but I've seriously come around to seeing it as a glorified mouse, and I'm more than fine with that.

 

 

We should finally have some answers when the Rift and Vive flight sim users start showing up, or when Wags can do an extensive review of the Rift and Vive. I don't think there is an extensive NDA on the Vive, but Wags may be waiting until he's allowed to say something about the Rift as well.

I don't think it's just the NDA, I don't think Wags will ever give us a versus (perceived or literal) appraisal of these systems, it becomes too much of a political problem. He would know, as the rest of us would, that true assessments will come thick and fast over the coming months. I just hope their implementation is rock-solid, regardless of system.

[hansangb]

Your right the pic would be the size of a monitor, in VR. I think the camera enhances the Vive chaperone system as intended very well, but I'm struggling to see much benefit for cockpit switch finding.

 

Although a 2D image wouldn't be that much of a benefit, for hand eye coordination. By the time people used muscle memory/feel to find the switch to select the see thru camera, people with muscle memory/feel would have found the cockpit/hotas switch they were looking for in the first place.

 

We should finally have some answers when the Rift and Vive flight sim users start showing up, or when Wags can do an extensive review of the Rift and Vive. I don't think there is an extensive NDA on the Vive, but Wags may be waiting until he's allowed to say something about the Rift as well.

 

Not for me. From the video, it looks like you tap the controller to bring the PIP camera. I'd much rather flick physical switches and dials then move the mouse, or look at the switch with the cross-hair/HMD and click the mouse button. While intuitive, it's a bit of a pain for me.

 

I just need to be able to quickly move my hand to the UFC, AHCC panel, etc. It's a pain trying to rotate or flick switches up/middle/down with mouse clicks.

 

We'll see in two months, I guess.

[Johnny Dioxin]

Personally, I couldn't give a flying hoot which one is best and which one can do what - just as long as the one I buy is good enough for the job.

 

I also don't have the luxury of waiting for improved/gen 2 versions - they could be a while away yet, and my gaming years are numbered.

 

I don't want to find the perfect system has arrived just when I'm too decrepit to use the damn thing!

[S3NTRY11]

I'm with you Brix, these cant arrive soon enough.

 

Of course DCS does slow down a bit depending on what is going on, but if all I can do with Oculus is laps of the Carrier in DCS Hornet I will be happy.

Anything above that is a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

Carrier landings in VR are my gaming holy grail right now.

 

I had a bit of fun on a multi server doing touch-and-goes with a MiG15 on a Russian carrier. More fun than I care to admit.

[DerekSpeare]

This is worth watching:

 

[ame]

[/ame]

[hansangb]

If you go to 25m 34 sec into the video, it explains why 4K monitors (three or four of them even...) *will never* compare to VR. The example I used in the past is tracking a SAM smoke trail while maneuvering the plane. It's just different in VR than with 3 monitors and TrackIR. And he clearly explains why that is.

 

Exciting times, for sure.

 

As for the "VR is too tough on compute..." That argument has been made since time immemorial. We've *NEVER* had enough compute. From the original F15 Strike Eagle using stick/wireframes, to MS Flight Simulator - the was the benchmark of PC compatibility, to Falcon 3.0 and now DCS.

 

Like I said, exciting times...

[DerekSpeare]

There are many modern games which give stellar eye candy and wonderful frame rates when run on a single screen and high end computers...

 

However, things start to break down considerably when VR is used, especially with flight and racing sims. It's my personal opinion that hardware lags about 5 years behind software, so this means that 5 years hence hardware then *should* blow the doors off what games we're playing today...give or take.

 

And an aside: I realized from the video that the pills in the Matrix were the same...there is no color...like there is no spoon *<|:0)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

It's my personal opinion that hardware lags about 5 years behind software, so this means that 5 years hence hardware then *should* blow the doors off what games we're playing today...give or take.

 

Give or take, you're probably right. Currently our games limp on ok with average hardware, so people put up with it.

 

If VR causes people to suffer, I think both software and hardware producers will find a way to improve things faster than we think. There's nothing like less than satisfied customers to make a company up its game.

[dot]

There are many modern games which give stellar eye candy and wonderful frame rates when run on a single screen and high end computers...

 

However, things start to break down considerably when VR is used, especially with flight and racing sims. It's my personal opinion that hardware lags about 5 years behind software, so this means that 5 years hence hardware then *should* blow the doors off what games we're playing today...give or take.

 

And an aside: I realized from the video that the pills in the Matrix were the same...there is no color...like there is no spoon *<|:0)

 

 

Give or take, you're probably right. Currently our games limp on ok with average hardware, so people put up with it.

 

If VR causes people to suffer, I think both software and hardware producers will find a way to improve things faster than we think. There's nothing like less than satisfied customers to make a company up its game.

 

The hardware is fine, just game devs need to update their engines.

 

If you look at your CPU and GPU utilisation on most racing/ flying game you'll see that your cpu is used about 10-20% (mostly on one core) and gpu 50-70%, depending on settings, hardware, game etc.

 

That's why consoles can punch above their weigh, the devs pretty much have to spend time optimising as eveyone has the same harware.

 

On pc, most game devs just say, but new GPU or CPU, job done.

 

The point is that to get a 90 FPS you need to do a lot of work in 11ms so single threaded engines will struggle.

 

Direct X 12 gives a lot of control back to game developers, but it's up to them to make a use of if.

[Chivas]

Not for me. From the video, it looks like you tap the controller to bring the PIP camera. I'd much rather flick physical switches and dials then move the mouse, or look at the switch with the cross-hair/HMD and click the mouse button. While intuitive, it's a bit of a pain for me.

 

I just need to be able to quickly move my hand to the UFC, AHCC panel, etc. It's a pain trying to rotate or flick switches up/middle/down with mouse clicks.

 

We'll see in two months, I guess.

 

 

This is the best video I've seen so far on the see thru camera/chaperone system, and its much better than some reviewers have suggested. BUT what we are seeing in the YouTube doesn't necessarily correlate with what the person is actually seeing in the VR headset. Although it is closer with the new HMD's with higher resolutions as compared to the YouTube videos with the lower resolution DK2. That said he did have problems getting his hands on his phone at one point.

 

 

 

.

[DerekSpeare]

=> dot - I'll be the first guy to say that MUCH more is needed from developers in the area of optimization and integration for VR. MUCH MORE!

 

=> Chivas - that's pretty intriguing!

[TomOnSteam]

 

This is the best video I've seen so far on the see thru camera/chaperone system, and its much better than some reviewers have suggested. BUT what we are seeing in the YouTube doesn't necessarily correlate with what the person is actually seeing in the VR headset. Although it is closer with the new HMD's with higher resolutions as compared to the YouTube videos with the lower resolution DK2. That said he did have problems getting his hands on his phone at one point.

 

 

 

.

 

well that's the fishing for the keyboard and mouse problem solved. I mean you could even use that in a real simpit to flip the switches.