Some details of FC3 AFM Missile Improvements

[Dejjvid]

Basically, missile won't arm without a target

 

 

Missiles fired at long range will loft, using altitude to increase speed and maneuverability when they finally reach the target. Missile launches in FC3 should happen at longer ranges than in FC2.

 

Incorrect, the missile needs a certain amount of constant acceleration in order to arm the missile. This ensures that you are out of harms way if it should explode.

 

Same principle as many artillery rounds and M203 grenades.

[Exorcet]

Yes, my head wasn't on right when I answered that first bullet.

[Dejjvid]

Yes, my head wasn't on right when I answered that first bullet.

 

Yea, I know the feeling. Sometimes I boot into MS-DOS myself.. ;)

 

I have not received my Lock On copy yet so I can't check this. But I assume IRL performance of the gun is implemented right?

[Essah]

I have a question reharding SARH missiles, since the guidance is from launching aircraft and missile is able to track the target because it's being guided by launching aircraft radar, shouldn't such missile continue to track locked aircraft even if there is chaff in air as long as launching aircraft radar maintains a lock?

 

In short, if I launch a SARH, if radar lock is always maintained the missile should continue tracking towards target?

 

Imagine it like this

 

your radar is like a flashlight in the darkness, any object in the light cone will be visible to you. SARH missiles home in on the most vissible object in the cone. When your radar locks on to an aircraft the cone narrows down to only cover little more than the target and follows it. when you fire a SARH missile it homes in on an object it can see inside the cone, but for the missile to track the cone needs to be very focused (hence the narrowing focus) When the target dumps chaff the chaff will provide a much more visible object in the cone (radar cross section of chaff is very large cos of the large amount of surface area) and the missile will fly towards the chaff instead because it can't see anything else. However your own radar might not be fooled and continues to track your target so when the chaff leaves the radar cone it is suddenly worthless. therefore chaff is only useful while close to the targeted aircraft (and thus inside the radar/light cone)

 

the missile seeker however only needs to start looking at the chaff once and it usually won't be able to pick up the real target again (depending on the missile)

command guided missiles might receive a new command to follow the target in the cone again. Aim-120 is also very smart.

[Falcon_S]

...Aim-120 is also very smart.

 

Yes, in FC only. ;)

 

AMRAAM must lose lock if target beaming hard and stop tracking if target aspect is MED. For MED tracking F15c pilot have to lock target again in RL. In FC world AMRAAM haunts us in all aspects. That must STOP and that must be a next improvemnets and ED can make some suprises too for high altitude F15c pilots, you will find some ideas here (if you want, of course ;)):

 

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/20120801.aspx

 

The AMRAAM solid fuel rocket motors problem was discovered during testing that the air force performs on a few of every new batch of missiles. The problem is that when rocket motors are exposed to very cold conditions (as would happen when an aircraft is flying at a high altitude) they become unreliable. The air force is withholding over half a billion dollars in payments until the reliability problem is fixed. At the same time the manufacturer is frantically trying to discover the cause of the failures. ATK, the rocket motor manufacturer (for both the AMRAAM and Sparrow) insists that it is building the rocket motors the same way it has for three decades. So far ATK has not said much about the progress of its investigation, other than no solution has yet been found.

 

:pilotfly:

[Kenan]

^^Perhaps it's a server-side issue? :D

[GGTharos]

I don't know where you got this idea; the real F-15C radar automatically transfers targets between MPRF and HPRF. If the target is lost, the radar will execute its MEM loop to re-acquire, again automatically.

AMRAAM itself does a couple of things to re-acquire as well.

As for the rockets 'becoming unreliable', how about some 'surprises' for red bird pilots where their missiles fall off the pylons and fail to ignite due to old age and poor storage? :)

 

AMRAAM must lose lock if target beaming hard and stop tracking if target aspect is MED. For MED tracking F15c pilot have to lock target again in RL. In FC world AMRAAM haunts us in all aspects. That must STOP and that must be a next improvemnets and ED can make some suprises too for high altitude F15c pilots, you will find some ideas here (if you want, of course ;))::pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

More like a whiner-side issue :D

 

^^Perhaps it's a server-side issue? :D

[Falcon_S]

...radar automatically...

 

About what radar you talking? About what radar you talking when ''aces'' like you launch missile, wait it to be active and you smile (when you run - defensive) because your fake missile will do job, tracking target in every aspect of that target anyway only because she is active? That is lie. Your AMRAAM cant tracking the target if that traget beaming or go defensive (MED aspect) without your radar (you remember? - you fire and run). Your fake missile must lose lock in that situation. Do you understand that, boy?

 

You are PR in this sim and i understand you but i`m one level above of your sarcasm and i pretty enjoy every time when you first jump and answer me ''kindly''. :D But i confess, i not tolerate lies that sell the same simulator several times.

 

More like a whiner-side issue :D

 

More like a ED testers issue:D

[GGTharos]

About what radar you talking? About what radar you talking when ''aces'' like you launch missile, wait it to be active and you smile (when you run - defensive) because your fake missile will do job, tracking target in every aspect of that target anyway only because she is active? That is lie.

 

I'm talking about the APG-63. The AMRAAM's seeker uses similar tricks, and is capable of using both MPRF and HPRF waveforms. Launch and leave - ie. cheapshot and pitbull - is used in RL exercises, but really, it depends on what sort of tactics you want to execute.

 

Your AMRAAM cant tracking the target if that traget beaming or go defensive (MED aspect) without your radar (you remember? - you fire and run). Your fake missile must lose lock in that situation. Do you understand that, boy?

It doesn't track notching targets, 'boy', not in-game, but it's also dumber than it's RL version in this respect. Who told you it doesn't track beaming targets? I don't see that anywhere in any reference material that I have.

 

You are PR in this sim and i understand you but i`m one level above of your sarcasm and i pretty enjoy every time when you first jump and answer me ''kindly''. :D But i confess, i not tolerate lies that sell the same simulator several times.

I don't tolerate your whining. You want to throw your own lies around for which you have not provided any documentation. So tell me, 'boy', should we stop all radar missiles from tracking in 'med'? Or are the russian missiles special, hm? :)

 

 

More like a ED testers issue:D

Whiner issue.
Edited September 10, 2012 by GGTharos

[Boberro]

As for the rockets 'becoming unreliable', how about some 'surprises' for red bird pilots where their missiles fall off the pylons and fail to ignite due to old age and poor storage? :)

 

Ow yeah I'd like that. I do hope it will be modelled as well and could be turned on\off.

[Falcon_S]

...Who told you it doesn't track beaming targets?

One active F16 pilot from Greece. ;) Every hard beam more than 110-120 degrees.

 

I don't see that anywhere in any reference material that I have.

I told you: ED Testers issue :D

 

So tell me, 'boy', should we stop all radar missiles from tracking in 'med'? Or are the russian missiles special, hm? :)

 

Radar is the key word of this conversation.

 

As for the Russian missiles, here you have a great job done. All can be seen here, boy:

[GGTharos]

One active F16 pilot from Greece. ;) Every hard beam more than 110-120 degrees.

 

Tell your active pilot from Greece that real AMRAAMs have hit real aircraft at medium-to-low aspects.

 

I told you: ED Testers issue :D

 

Whiner issue.

 

 

Radar is the key word of this conversation.

 

As for the Russian missiles, here you have a great job done. All can be seen here, boy:

 

 

Hey, 'boy' ... maybe you should shoot a few AIM-7's and AIM-120's. You might discover they behave similarly to that video under the right circumstances. ;)

[falcon_120]

All you're showing in that video is related lo lag,and make no distinction between russian or

american missiles.That does not happen in single player game.

[Falcon_S]

Tell your active pilot from Greece that real AMRAAMs have hit real aircraft at medium-to-low aspects.

 

He told you: ''Only with radar lock guided. Pilot control situation. AMRAAM in active phaze can`t pursue the outgoing target without radar help (MED).'' ;)

[GGTharos]

Sure it can, it just lowers Pk (he will tell you the same thing). And that's also the case in FC. On the other hand, if that target is only 3-5nm away from the missile, I don't see what the problem is ... even HPRF should work just fine in that tail-chase.

 

Maybe you should have him explain it a bit better to you so that you understand what's going on, I don't see you telling me anything new here.

[Cali]

That video says nothing to me, I've seen every missile in FC2 or any other lock on series do some strange things....moving on...next.

[Sov13t]

Speaking of frequencies, will the radars in FC3 now automatically switch MPRF and HPRF when in STT? Or will it still require manual switching to maintain lock when target changes aspect?

[GGTharos]

Manual. The PRF switching logic is not super-hard but also not super-simple to implement, either - mind you I only know of the logic for the F-15, I don't know how the 27's radar set handles it ... but I would expect similar behaviour.

[USAFMTL]

AESA radar???? *hides from GG's ban/beating stick.

[GGTharos]

I don't think you can make that un-notcheable, but what do I know. :D

[Sov13t]

Thanks for the answer, makes it a little hard for semi active guidance, but we can live.

[GGTharos]

Makes it hard for TWS too - obviously the fact that the 120 will go active really helps, but I've seen a lot of them go stupid as well.

 

Anyway, generally speaking the APG-63 will always try to transfer to HPRF for the AIM-7 which is when you get the shoot cue (IIRC ... just IIRC). It won't switch to MPRF unless the target is lost and it starts executing its MEM function. I'm not convinced that the missile itself will home in on an MPRF reflection, as I believe (perhaps incorrectly? ) that it is tuned to the HPRF waveform.

 

I expect similar behaviour from the R-27. The caveat here is that you can lose long-ranged shots due to an aspect change, but medium-range (eg inside 35km) should work fine. I forget the exact in-game ranges for losing lock with HPRF due to aspect though.

[Exorcet]

Makes it hard for TWS too - obviously the fact that the 120 will go active really helps, but I've seen a lot of them go stupid as well.

 

Also doesn't help that when in TWS, the radar doesn't tell you if you are HI, MED, or int. It's really easy to screw up a lock.

[Frostie]

Also doesn't help that when in TWS, the radar doesn't tell you if you are HI, MED, or int. It's really easy to screw up a lock.

Yes this has sort of slipped under the radar (ptp), we should have beaten the drum much louder about making life easier in this regard.

Either fix or a notification of prf state while in STT/TWS.