Mk84 blast radius

[tflash]

I'm not very impressed with the way a Mk84 blast is modelled. A 2000 pounder causes a BIG explosion and has a large destructive radius, even against armour. What is modelled correctly is that you can destroy buildings, bridges and boats with one direct hit of a Mk84. But such a formidable weapon should also wreak big havok when dropped onto a vehicle column. This seems much less the case.

 

Example: I dropped an Mk84 in between 3 parked An-26's: non was destroyed. I then dropped a couple of Mk-20's and all where gone.

 

My guess is the terrible blast of an Mk-84 should have a comparable effect to the multiple bomblets of the rockeye in such a case.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Your guess is correct tflash, Mk84s are MUCH more destructive IRL.

[GGTharos]

It's not quite like that ... there's a lot of frag, but the exact effects are more difficult to quantify. Certainyl it should have a significant frag capability against soft targets.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Actually, much of the damage from a Mk84 comes from overpressure effects, not from fragmentation. If he dropped the Mk84 in the midst of 3 parked aircraft...well...there should be 3 smashed aircraft on the ground. ;)

[GGTharos]

I got the distinct impression that overpressure effects are relatively short-ranged. Not like in LOMAC - that's way too short - but what the destructive force is per unit of distance is hard to tell. I've read that 50' away from a bomb will let a tank live - then again, I don't recall if it was an 82 or an 84 ;)

[Guest IguanaKing]

On the other hand, I have heard stories of the Muj in both Afghanistan and Iraq trying to convince the press that the US was using nuclear weapons when 2,000 pounders were employed. ;)

[Pilotasso]

On the other hand, I have heard stories of the Muj in both Afghanistan and Iraq trying to convince the press that the US was using nuclear weapons when 2,000 pounders were employed. ;)

 

LOL

 

I have used Russian 250 Kg Iron bombs with great success against light targets, such as SAM's, although I noticed that BMP's and other units will also be destroyed in the immidiate vicinity. The Mk84 should indeed do better.

[Mizzy]

I don't really do much fighting but just for instance, what is the biggest weapon in Lock On for the big firworks?

 

Mizzy.

[Force_Feedback]

When talking bombs I think it's the kab-1500.

 

Cruise missiles: Kh-65/AGM 86c, as those are nuclear :p

 

Biggest fireworks: fab bombs

[Gazehound]

I don't really do much fighting but just for instance, what is the biggest weapon in Lock On for the big firworks?

 

Mizzy.

For spectacular effects try 6 RBK-500s dropped in succession

[Maverick-90]

Cruise missiles: Kh-65/AGM 86c, as those are nuclear :p

in Lockon they aren't, it's a conventional Version modelled

[Force_Feedback]

hence the : P (smileys, emoticons, call them whatever, this one says that it's meant as funny/sarcastic)

 

Is the "nuke effect" still visible when dropping fabs, or did they fix it in 1.1/1.11?

[SUBS17]

I got the distinct impression that overpressure effects are relatively short-ranged. Not like in LOMAC - that's way too short - but what the destructive force is per unit of distance is hard to tell. I've read that 50' away from a bomb will let a tank live - then again, I don't recall if it was an 82 or an 84 ;)

 

84s leave a big crater and do alot of damage, the shrapnel travels quite a distance as does the tremors which lockon does model. I agree with Iguana King, an 84 has a much bigger blast radius than what is modeled in lockon.

[Prophet_169th]

I like the ODAB's.

[Cobra360]

In the F4:AF tac ref it says that the lethal blast frag radius for infantry out in the open is 110ft for a Mk-84, which seems small to me.

[tflash]

In the F4:AF tac ref it says that the lethal blast frag radius for infantry out in the open is 110ft for a Mk-84, which seems small to me.

 

Are you sure it is ft and not meters? I would guess some 400 ft

[Cobra360]

Yep, thats what it says. If anyone else has F4, any version check the tac ref for yourselves. The 110ft would sound about right for a Mk-82 though.

 

I found this link http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/bombs.htm

It also states that 100ft is the radius for a Mk-84 against infantry and it does say it is relativly small.

 

''Blast is caused by tremendous dynamic overpressures generated by the detonation of a high explosive. Complete (high order) detonation of high-explosives can generate pressures up to 700 tons per square inch and temperatures in the range of 3,000 to 4,500º prior to bomb case fragmentation. It is essential that the bomb casing remain intact long enough after the detonation sequence begins to contain the hot gases and achieve a high order explosion. A consideration when striking hardened targets is that deformation of the weapon casing or fuze may cause the warhead to dud or experience a low order detonation. Approximately half of the total energy generated will be used in swelling the bomb casing to 1.5 times its normal size prior to fragmenting and then imparting velocity to those fragments. The remainder of this energy is expended in compression of the air surrounding the bomb and is responsible for the blast effect. This effect is most desirable for attacking walls, collapsing roofs, and destroying or damaging machinery. The effect of blast on personnel is confined to a relatively short distance (110 feet for a 2000 pound bomb). For surface targets blast is maximized by using a general purpose (GP) bomb with an instantaneous fuzing system that will produce a surface burst with little or no confinement of the overpressures generated by excessive burial. For buildings or bunkers the use of a delayed fuzing system allows the blast to occur within the structure maximizing the damage caused by the explosion.

 

Fragmentation is caused by the break-up of the weapon casing upon detonation. Fragments of a bomb case can achieve velocities from 3,000 to 11,000 fps depending on the type of bomb (for example GP bomb fragments have velocities of 5,000 to 9,000 fps). Fragmentation is effective against troops, vehicles, aircraft and other soft targets. The fragmentation effects generated from the detonation of a high-explosive bomb have greater effective range than blast, usually up to approximately 3,000 feet regardless of bomb size. The fragmentation effect can be maximized by using a bomb specifically designed for this effect, or by using a GP bomb with an airburst functioning fuze.

 

The cratering effect is normally achieved by using a GP bomb with a delayed fuzing system. This system allows bomb penetration before the explosion. Since the explosion occurs within the surface media the energy of the blast is causes the formation of a crater. This effect is most desirable in interdiction of lines of communication (LOC) and area denial operations ''

[Guest IguanaKing]

100 feet is definitely too small. Perhaps what they mean by "lethal radius" is that even SuperMan would be killed. If a Mk-84, GBU-10, or BSU-50 were dropped into the endzone of a football stadium, MOST of the people in that stadium would be killed. Some would survive, but not many.

[GGTharos]

See? Told ya so. The blast effect's force is inversely proportional tot he square of the distance from the center of the blast in the simplest terms. That means power drops off quite quickly. It's the frag that does significant damage beyond this, but the kill probability is also sharply reduced with distance, using approximately the same proportion because the spare between fragments increases.

 

LOMAC's Mk84 is still too weak regardless, and doesn't cause the necessary self-frag damage to aircraft either.

[Guest IguanaKing]

I challenge you then to stand just outside of 100 feet from a Mk-84 detonation. No...seriously...I don't want you to die GG, but I hope you can use your imagination to put this in perspective. ;) 100 feet ain't all that far away and the human body is pretty fragile...parked aircraft are even MORE fragile.

 

Good observation about self-frag, BTW. I haven't really put that to the test yet, since I instinctively pull up hard and dump flares right after weapon release.

[GGTharos]

I challenge you to hold a lit firecracker in your hand :P

 

The point is that overpressure effects diminish very quickly. ;)

 

Frag will likely do a good job of killing people beyond 110', but again, the effect decreases with distance - this is exactly the same effect as you have with hand grenades. You expect a hand grenade to kill everyone within some 2-3m, beyond that chances diminish quite quickly - which doesn't mean you won't get nailed by a ball bearing, it's just less likely.

[Guest IguanaKing]

I challenge you to hold a lit firecracker in your hand :P

 

"If you hold it in your open hand, what happens? It burns your hand, right? Now...if you close your hand...well...your wife will be opening your ketchup bottles the rest of your life"

 

The point is that overpressure effects diminish very quickly. ;)

 

That depends on the detonation. ;)

 

Frag will likely do a good job of killing people beyond 110', but again, the effect decreases with distance - this is exactly the same effect as you have with hand grenades. You expect a hand grenade to kill everyone within some 2-3m, beyond that chances diminish quite quickly - which doesn't mean you won't get nailed by a ball bearing, it's just less likely.

 

110 feet is just slightly longer than half a city block, GG. Again...not very big...and a Mk-84 is a HUGE weapon.

[Weta43]

My maths is a bit crap but I think the area of a sphere is 4*pi*r^2

so for a sphere 101' radius the surface area is 152053 square feet.

I'll be generous & make the exploding weapon 3' diameter & 5' long it has a surface area of ~35 square feet.

If it breaks into peices 0.25' square (which seems small - very generous) that's 2304 per square foot & 81430 in total, which makes 1 peice every 1.9 square feet.

At a radius of 150' it's 1 piece every 3.5 square feet & at 200' its 1 per 6 square feet. reduce these densities by how big you expect the pieces to be. If you say double the size to 1/2" square, quarter the density to 1 every 7.5 square feet at 110' - or a fair chance of being missed.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Overpressure...my friend...overpressure. ;)

[MBot]

The area covered by fragmentations is quite huge. Here is a rule of thumb for spacing between attacking aircraft in order to minimise risk of taking frags ( for Mk-82 class weapons, by Andy Bush ):

 

Lateral seperation of at least 3000ft or min. altitude of 3000ft or 30 sec. separation in time.

 

Pretty impressive, ey ? Would make planing and coordinating airstrikes quite interesting if simulated in Lock On.