F-18 grip, WARTHOG compatible

[spacenavy90]

This. Designs for stuff like the KA-50, Mirage, MiGs etc might be worth doing for the more popular planes/helos out there, Non-US designs are rare in joysticks aimed at the "entertainment" sim market.

 

I suspect that if the F-18 stick sells well other variants are very likely possibility. :D

[hegykc]

I should put this in the first post,

 

if DCS has a module, I will have a grip for it. There are no expensive molds in this technology, so the only investment is 3d CAD design and development, which is done by me, I don't charge for it and it's my hobby and passion (borderline addiction actually). So it doesn't really matter if I sell 1 or 1000 units, it will get made just on the fact that I want one for my self, I can't help it really.

 

As a matter of fact, the weirder and rarer it is, the more I want to make it. There's a carrier module coming? Guess I'm building a carrier bridge simpit then.

[Random]

Don't know if I mentioned it to you before Hegykc but "spitsim" might be a good UK partner for you. They do a stick wich is designed to take different stick tops (currently only 2 standard ones though). I have one with a logitech G940 top grafted on.

 

They might be interested in an expanded range!

[spacenavy90]

I should put this in the first post,

 

if DCS has a module, I will have a grip for it. There are no expensive molds in this technology, so the only investment is 3d CAD design and development, which is done by me, I don't charge for it and it's my hobby and passion (borderline addiction actually). So it doesn't really matter if I sell 1 or 1000 units, it will get made just on the fact that I want one for my self, I can't help it really.

 

As a matter of fact, the weirder and rarer it is, the more I want to make it. There's a carrier module coming? Guess I'm building a carrier bridge simpit then.

 

I like the way you think. :D

[dburne]

 

if DCS has a module, I will have a grip for it.

 

:thumbup:

 

Looking forward to it!

[Blaze]

I'm dreaming of an L-39 grip with an actual brake lever. :smilewink:

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

What we can do I'd offer our support to hegykc while he sorts this amazing product out. Let us not forget he is doing this as a hobby and is doing this in his spare time. Personally let him take his time to perfect this and not rush him.

 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[The LT]

What we can do I'd offer our support to hegykc while he sorts this amazing product out. Let us not forget he is doing this as a hobby and is doing this in his spare time. Personally let him take his time to perfect this and not rush him.

 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

I am sorry but as much as I want to see it succeed it's getting less and less likely in my opinion. The more I read what hegykc states, the more I have my doubts.

 

And yes, I already own a 3rd party grip and have a clue about how those are made. If he manages to make them for 59$, I'd be very surprised.

[mhe]

I should put this in the first post,

 

if DCS has a module, I will have a grip for it. There are no expensive molds in this technology, so the only investment is 3d CAD design and development, which is done by me, I don't charge for it and it's my hobby and passion (borderline addiction actually). So it doesn't really matter if I sell 1 or 1000 units, it will get made just on the fact that I want one for my self, I can't help it really.

 

As a matter of fact, the weirder and rarer it is, the more I want to make it. There's a carrier module coming? Guess I'm building a carrier bridge simpit then.

 

You read my mind. And everybody else's, apparently.

[SinusoidDelta]

Awesome thread here. Sand casting would likely be the most cost effective way to make a grip out of metal. You could easily use a 3-D printed SLS or SLA grip as the mold pattern. It would require some post casting hand working and machining. It'd be far cheaper than DMLS or any other RP method I know of.

[hegykc]

Let us not forget he is doing this as a hobby and is doing this in his spare time.

 

Not really. Actually, not at all. It's the complete oposite :D I've quit my job two years ago, and I've been working full time developing machinery and processes needed to make this possible.

 

I am sorry but as much as I want to see it succeed it's getting less and less likely in my opinion. The more I read what hegykc states, the more I have my doubts.

 

And yes, I already own a 3rd party grip and have a clue about how those are made. If he manages to make them for 59$, I'd be very surprised.

 

 

A fair concern shared by many, I can understand and respect that. But you should keep in mind that as this project snowballed, the product itself became smaller and smaller part of the whole operation. Right now, the grips are maybe 5% of what I do and most of the work is done behind the scenes, on automating production processes and keeping all production work in house.

 

For example, this is the sight you are greeted with when you open a $500 present box from a certain rudder pedal manufacturer:

 

That looks horrible, sorry :D, and takes waaaaay too much time to do. No disrespect to him, he still provides a product to this community that was not available before, so my hat is off to him. But I want more.

 

I do my homework first. Below is just a small part of an order i just shipped minutes ago. Custom cut packaging foam protection for a different rudder pedal manufacturer. Behind this picture is a custom designed (by me) and custom built (by me) computer controlled packaging protection cutter capable of producing protection for 10,000 units per day if needed:

 

This took time to develop. So did the industrial 6'x9' laser cutter/engraver, automated cnc painting machine, automated box stamping machine and I could go on and on and on. All the hard work that you will never know about (yes, I am Batman:)) because it's not directly simpit related, but it's the extensive groundwork needed to make 60$ grips.

 

My products will be 1/3 the price of everyone else, because I get to keep 90% of the sale price in my pocket. When you buy your Mamba's, Slaw devices, VKB's, heck even Saitek's and Tm's.. you pay them, and then they pay the cardboard box guys, the packaging protection guys, painting guys, laser cutting guys, mold making guys and probably 5 more guys I forgot about :D That's why rudder pedals cost $500 and grips $250, you pay 1 company, but 10 companies take their cut.

 

When you'll buy from me, you pay me, period. I am also free to dictate the quantities I need. Any one of these manufacturers gets an idea for a limited product, say a Mirage 2000 hotas, or any of the helicopter collective and cyclic sets ? Good luck getting all those guys to provide you their services for a 50 piece production run. I'll make products for every module even if I sell a single unit and I won't loose a single cent over it. The picture above is just one piece of a very large puzzle making it all possible and profitable.

 

This business is not a sprint, it's a marathon. Enter this marathon quickly and you will either struggle, collapse or get run over by someone who trained and prepared for years. I may be far behind all of the manufacturers selling today, but I did my homework first. So when I roll out my products, it won't even be a competition. It's game over time for them, and it's play time for you.

 

P.S. This thread started as nothing more than a "what if" experiment. A quickly done grip model, meant to be online 3d printed with old technology and some cheap china switches. It slowly grew from that, and in the beginning of 2015 came a decision to go full pro with it. It might look like a 2 year dead project but it's actually a 10-month full speed ahead development. And I would have never created this thread so much ahead of time if it had been a professional and commercial project from the start. But I'm not gonna leave people clueless now, gotta role with it :D

Edited December 11, 2015 by hegykc

[Eight Ball]

You're DA man Hegykc

 

We're really lucky to have you on these boards :thumbup:

[dburne]

Not really. Actually, not at all. It's the complete oposite :D I've quit my job two years ago, and I've been working full time developing machinery and processes needed to make this possible.

 

:thumbup:'

 

Thanks for the explanation and the detailed update of your processes. It sounds very promising, I will be watching the progress on your grips closely, and undoubtedly will end up becoming a customer at some point.

 

Very nice to see someone doing this like yourself.

[OxideMako]

This business is not a sprint, it's a marathon. Enter this marathon quickly and you will either struggle, collapse or get run over by someone who trained and prepared for years. I may be far behind all of the manufacturers selling today, but I did my homework first. So when I roll out my products, it won't even be a competition. It's game over time for them, and it's play time for you.

I wish you all the success in the world, and honestly hope you put companies that half-ass stuff (*cough* MadCatz/Saitek) out of business. As consumers we deserve someone who cares about their products, and will stand behind them. Unfortunately that is all to rare these days, regardless of the industry they are in. Good to see we have people who still want to do things properly, not just make a quick buck.

[SDsc0rch]

you are going to do well

[spacenavy90]

Any one of these manufacturers gets an idea for a limited product, say a Mirage 2000 hotas, or any of the helicopter collective and cyclic sets ? Good luck getting all those guys to provide you their services for a 50 piece production run.

 

Helicopter collective you say?

 

I've been looking for one that didn't cost a literal arm and a leg. So hurry up on that one. :D

[VO101_MMaister]

To be honest I am also very skeptical with your business model, making everything in-house.

 

Outsourcing the different manufacturing processes exists not because for example BMW could not make the single smallest plastic part by itself, but because it is not profitable. Running a casting, a painting or a packing workshop each cost a hell of a money and it is only worth it if the expensive machines running around the clock. Now what you are planning to do is just the opposite. Investing a lot of money and energy into manufacturing capacities and hoping for big, continous order one day to keep these machines busy.

When you buy a Saitek product the manufacturing cost`s share in the whole price is not more than 20%.

You are right of course about the low quantity high quality products like Slaw`s or Milan`s. They sell in low batches hence the production is expensive ( I am not sure about Milan since he is utilizing an existing family owned fabric). But the serious flight sim market is damn small.

 

I guess you made a business plan calculating the risks, monitoring the market and figuring out realistic minimum quantities to sell to keep your manufacturing profitable. When you spend a lot of money on machines it needs to be returned before you see a penny of profit.

Do not misunderstand me, I wish you a great success, but it is a very unusual plan for a business.

 

By the way I would love to see some pictures of your machines, it should be really interesting.

 

Best Regards

[hegykc]

You are right. But bmw's and the lowest price joysticks are products made in hundreds of thousands. That's a whole other world.

 

TM Warthog sold 30,000 units in 5 years if I'm not mistaken. That's 500 a month, right where I want to be. And that's a problem. No one will make you 500 custom sized boxes, let alone custom made foam packaging or any other service you need for your product. Well they will, but it'll cost you more then the product itself. So you're making more money for the companies whose services you use, then you are for yourself.

 

I will post pictures of my workshop once I pretty it up :D Right now it's a big prototyping and proof of concept mess.

Edited December 11, 2015 by hegykc

[spacenavy90]

You are right. But bmw's and the lowest price joysticks are products made in hundreds of thousands. That's a whole other world.

 

TM Warthog sold 30,000 units in 5 years if I'm not mistaken. That's 500 a month, right where I want to be. And that's a problem. No one will make you 500 custom sized boxes, let alone custom made foam packaging or any other service you need for your product. Well they will, but it'll cost you more then the product itself. So you're making more money for the companies whose services you use, then you are for yourself.

 

I will post pictures of my workshop once I pretty it up :D Right now it's a big prototyping and proof of concept mess.

Cant wait to see it!

 

Any estimate on how long until you open up orders? I'm sure you are already aware of the dozens just patiently now. :D

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[hansangb]

hegykc,

I'm very blessed in that, usually, money is not a barrier to entry. So I enjoy the Warthogs, MFGs, (Komodo on order), with a beefy machine that's about to be upgraded. I do tend to put my $$$ where my mouth is. I helped fund some TM script development, paid Wikipedia, Mozilla, DownThemAll plugins, Rift, etc, you name it. But this is just a long winded way of saying that I *will* buy your P51, F15, and WWII era sticks if you make them!!! (FA18 if it ever comes out from DCS) I'm patiently waiting to buy it from you! So keep up the hard work, and I hope it pays off for you.

 

BTW, if anyone is interested, read the backstory of Ian Mead, the creator of UltraEdit. Very similar to your story! Keep the faith and I'll buy'em as soon as they are ready.

 

PS: Have you thought about crowdfunding it? Or would that make it too annoying? It sounds like you don't need the capital support so maybe it'll just be an annoyance for you. But I thought I throw it out there.

 

I can't wait to try them out!!

[Svend_Dellepude]

As they say: If you wan't it done right, You have to do it yourself! :D

[The LT]

A fair concern shared by many, I can understand and respect that. But you should keep in mind that as this project snowballed, the product itself became smaller and smaller part of the whole operation. Right now, the grips are maybe 5% of what I do and most of the work is done behind the scenes, on automating production processes and keeping all production work in house.

 

Don't get me wrong, mate, I totally dig what you do and wish you all the best of luck in your endeavours! It's just that the price tag on the sticks is a bit too optimistic to be viable for you, in my opinion.

[The LT]

You are right. But bmw's and the lowest price joysticks are products made in hundreds of thousands. That's a whole other world.

 

TM Warthog sold 30,000 units in 5 years if I'm not mistaken. That's 500 a month, right where I want to be. And that's a problem. No one will make you 500 custom sized boxes, let alone custom made foam packaging or any other service you need for your product. Well they will, but it'll cost you more then the product itself. So you're making more money for the companies whose services you use, then you are for yourself.

 

I will post pictures of my workshop once I pretty it up :D Right now it's a big prototyping and proof of concept mess.

 

 

You are being WAY TOO OPTIMISTIC if you expect EVERY SINGLE TMWH owner to buy your stick. :) A lot of them WANT it, sure, but I wouldn't count on everyone...

[The LT]

That looks horrible, sorry :D, and takes waaaaay too much time to do. No disrespect to him, he still provides a product to this community that was not available before, so my hat is off to him. But I want more.

 

I am getting a feeling you're comparing apples and oranges here. :)

 

As long as the parts are properly painted/powdercoated and there are clear assembly instructions which don't require welding/drilling and ballbearing pressing that's absolutely fine in my book as it basically is a packaging optimization. Reduces the size and unnecessary packaging.

 

I've seen FAR WORSE with other custom sim hardware manufacturers. :)

 

 

How about this? And tell you what, it hasn't stopped me from assembling the unit in a day. I had to paint it, drill a couple of holes and do some sanding, but otherwise it was a great experience. But the price for a finished product was ridiculously low, much lower than a TMWH. And I am fine with that. If it was to be painted and assembled, it would cost 10x more as there is only a single guy running the project. The same story with Milan and Slav. And you too, by the way.

 

But we're talking flightsticks here, not mechanics. I fully understand that the detailing and packaging has to be done by you as it's much trickier than usual steel parts.

[hegykc]

Opinions are irrelevant. Mine, yours, anyone else's. You know how the saying goes

 

You however mistook my research, prototyping and calculations for opinions.