03 and 07 May 2013 Updates

[Inseckt]

I'm so disappointed by these news. I know there are many people that have bought everything ED puts out just for the sake of support, or with the case of FC3, because they just wanted something to fiddle with while we wait for DCS-quality products. This has to end!

 

ED is just another company like any other. Even though they are dedicated and are passionate about what they do, they still must adhere to sales figures.

 

Every time you buy a product, you are in fact voting. But if you don't buy a product, you are also voting!

 

I hope that everyone in the future will consider this before buying a ED or 3rd party module. I know many would buy DSC Lite:F-15C just to play around with while they wait for

DCS:F-15, but with the current instability of ED's direction, I would urge everybody to ask themselves: Is this something I really want?

 

After being acquainted with Black shark and the warthog, I for one know I can't go back or down or anything that compromises the fidelity that we have with these products. The alternative for me is to give up simming all together, as there are no competitors out there where I can offer my vote.

 

I'm not trying to be a negative nancy here, and I know it was said DCS-quality was still being worked on, but it's starting to feel like every time DCS: fast mover is the only thing left on the list of things to come, something new and slightly distracting pops up. First CA, then P-51, then FC3 and now this DCS lite stuff. And I fear this will continue because people keep "voting" for these.

 

So if you are like me, and can only continue your simming career with A-10C-level fidelity, please consider holding back your money until a module of said quality is available. This is because we must vote with our money, and we also vote by not buying!

 

Sorry to seem so gloomy, but I can't help it, since I am... :(

[MadTommy]

Can anyone point to what AFM actually is. I know it stands for 'advanced flight model', but in itself that means nothing to me. What is the actual meat of the matter?

 

Thanks.

 

I can't say I'm enamored with being sold Flaming Cliff content for the 4th time.

 

I'm not surprised its their most successful product.. they keep on repackaging it and reselling it.

[Witchking]

I must honestly say though...I am in one way glad that this is happening. I love DCS A-10C...because I love the A-10...but it was almost a turn off to learn starting the aircraft. It was too much work. I still use quick start cheat. But...I learnt the weapon management system because I love the aircraft and I still think its amazing. But even during FC / lockon days, I loved the detail level of the Su25/25T....still simple enough to employ the aircraft systems, but have detailed flight models and nice landing models.

[BRooDJeRo]

Does this mean i'll have to buy the same F15 and Su27 again that I already have in FC3 initialy being the same, but being clickable at a later stage?

 

I'd have loved this to have known upfront before buying FC3 and a hardcopy of LOMAC for these aircraft.

 

I'm a person that likes to be boss of his own wallet to be honest. I'm not so sure if I would fall for it again and actualy invest in those 'new' aircraft.

Letting me buy things twice makes me running away doing something else with it.

[TAnker737]

I'm so disappointed by these news. I know there are many people that have bought everything ED puts out just for the sake of support, or with the case of FC3, because they just wanted something to fiddle with while we wait for DCS-quality products. This has to end!

 

ED is just another company like any other. Even though they are dedicated and are passionate about what they do, they still must adhere to sales figures.

 

Every time you buy a product, you are in fact voting. But if you don't buy a product, you are also voting!

 

I hope that everyone in the future will consider this before buying a ED or 3rd party module. I know many would buy DSC Lite:F-15C just to play around with while they wait for

DCS:F-15, but with the current instability of ED's direction, I would urge everybody to ask themselves: Is this something I really want?

 

After being acquainted with Black shark and the warthog, I for one know I can't go back or down or anything that compromises the fidelity that we have with these products. The alternative for me is to give up simming all together, as there are no competitors out there where I can offer my vote.

 

I'm not trying to be a negative nancy here, and I know it was said DCS-quality was still being worked on, but it's starting to feel like every time DCS: fast mover is the only thing left on the list of things to come, something new and slightly distracting pops up. First CA, then P-51, then FC3 and now this DCS lite stuff. And I fear this will continue because people keep "voting" for these.

 

So if you are like me, and can only continue your simming career with A-10C-level fidelity, please consider holding back your money until a module of said quality is available. This is because we must vote with our money, and we also vote by not buying!

 

Sorry to seem so gloomy, but I can't help it, since I am... :(

 

1+

I feel the same way, the main reason I started buying dcs products was how amazing the A-10c was and still is.

Then I purchased Blackshark 2 and p-52 Again amazing modules. FC3 I just got to support ED and

it was ok but not what I expected especially since I got introduced to ED with the Warthog.

I was really hoping since I saw the beauty of the F-15C in FC3, and to have that high end fidelity as the three before would be amazing.

I'm still going to buy it but I wanted to share my concern, When I hear about

DCS, I think about quality and determination. I don't want to have three different Tiers of the same plane in my library.

[MadTommy]

I must honestly say though...I am in one way glad that this is happening. I love DCS A-10C...because I love the A-10...but it was almost a turn off to learn starting the aircraft. It was too much work. I still use quick start cheat. But...I learnt the weapon management system because I love the aircraft and I still think its amazing. But even during FC / lockon days, I loved the detail level of the Su25/25T....still simple enough to employ the aircraft systems, but have detailed flight models and nice landing models.

 

I happy enough ED are releasing FC3 fidelity level planes.. but the same planes we have been using for a years on the same map.. planes most of us have bought 3 times already... that is disappointing and not gonna get my wallet out of my pocket for.

[sobek]

I'm not surprised its their most successful product.. they keep on repackaging it and reselling it.

 

And yet people keep buying it, possibly because they think they are getting their moneys worth. It's not being "repackaged", it is being fitted with an advanced flight model which is a bunch of work to do.

[MadTommy]

And yet people keep buying it, possibly because they think they are getting their moneys worth. It's not being "repackaged", it is being fitted with an advanced flight model which is a bunch of work to do.

 

Care to tell me what this AFM actually is or means please?

 

And no.. i regret buying FC3, it was a waste of money, and purely bought to support ED, especially considering this news. Not something i'll do again.

[LexiconG2]

Care to tell me what this AFM actually is or means please?

 

And no.. i regret buying FC3, it was a waste of money, and purely bought to support ED, especially considering this news. Not something i'll do again.

 

It's the same for me also.

[Witchking]

I think this is why ED don't talk a lot more about their upcoming products, because of how much people complain to and fro about every decision they make. I am sure ED is smart enough to know how to deal with their FC3 customers. They went far enough to extend development and get us all the 6dof cockpits we wanted for FC3. We all complained about the landing model being terrible and the requirement of lock on...and they are addressing that with this semi-fidelity aircraft. Being an independent publisher, remember that ED knows their finances and is able to project sales way better than what a single customer here can say. So just chill and wait for this to pan out before we freak out.

[LexiconG2]

This won't be here long. ;)

 

Did not see it I will go troll that one

[Feuerfalke]

The word is not simplified vs. hardcore but entry-level modules vs. in depth simulations. Its about time to give up elitism that sometimes shines through an accept that people have different interests and different amounts of time they can or want to invest into their hobby. If DCS appeals to all of them, we will all profit from it.

 

My 2 cents.

[some1]

Thank you, I'll wait until ED releases some proper simulation on DCS:A10C level.

[WildBillKelsoe]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

At least to help the A-10's, fight the Russkies, and enjoy Georgia on the FCR/GM radar.

[RglsPhoto]

I'd like to wait years for a DCS standard module instead of waiting months for a FC aircraft.I also bought FC3 just for supporting ED,I even bought Mustang but didn't fly too much time.But I don't think I will buy a FC AFM aircraft this time any more.

[Grimes]

Care to tell me what this AFM actually is or means please?

 

AFM simply models flight dynamics to a greater extent than the current FM found in most FC aircraft. A good example is a stall. In DCS A-10C a stall depends on a number of different factors and your aircraft will react somewhat realistically. In an FC3 SFM the stall is scripted, and the behavior is pretty much the same no matter how you try it. Another good example is dropping a bomb from your aircraft. In DCS A-10C when a bomb is dropped the center of gravity on your aircraft changes and you are forced to adjust slightly. Drop all of the bombs from one wing and not the other, your aircraft will tend to bank toward the heavy side. SFM aircraft simply don't do this.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Grimes

[Dejjvid]

And yet people keep buying it, possibly because they think they are getting their moneys worth. It's not being "repackaged", it is being fitted with an advanced flight model which is a bunch of work to do.

 

I bought it only because i want to support ED. I've tested the Su-27 and F-15 one evening since release, and i don't see any reason at all flying any of the FC3 aircrafts again. And i know a lot of people who only bought FC3 to support ED.

 

So if ED notice a lot of people buy FC3 they have to ask themselves, have we found new players, or is the increase High fidelity players supporting us.

 

I will not buy more low fidelity products, ever.

[Groove]

Being here since 2004 the forum community never really changed.

 

WHATEVER you do, announce, post, inform about its usually WRONG / DISAPPOINTING....

[nomdeplume]

So if ED notice a lot of people buy FC3 they have to ask themselves, have we found new players, or is the increase High fidelity players supporting us.

Even if all the 'hardcore' players are buying FC3 just to support ED, they're also buying other modules to actually play, so they wouldn't be seeing a noticeable difference in sales figures if Flaming Cliffs wasn't popular outside of the existing 'hardcore' market.

 

In some respect, you could consider that the low fidelity (more popular) products may be being used to somewhat subsidise the development of the high fidelity products, which are obviously more expensive to develop and don't sell as well.

[VincentLaw]

Being here since 2004 the forum community never really changed.

 

WHATEVER you do, announce, post, inform about its usually WRONG / DISAPPOINTING....

Yeah, ED finally decides to be open to the community and everyone gets upset. Do yourselves a favor: calm down before you ruin it. I would like to keep my weekly updates.

 

Buying FC3 does not make you entitled to any future product, it makes you entitled to your copy of FC3. If you are just throwing money at ED because you want to support the development of hifi DCS, then buy extra copies of the A-10C instead of FC3 etc., but again, that does not make you entitled to future development.

Edited May 8, 2013 by VincentLaw

[Rotorhead]

DISAPPOINTED!

 

OK, so I've been waiting for a properly simulated Flanker literally for years...

 

...just to find out it's not going to be anything else than current FC3 Flanker with AFM strapped to it. In other words, it will just get on par with Su-25 and A-10A which already are included in FC3.

 

You might talk about marketing reasons behind that, and you'd be probably right. But after all those great news about Huey, MiG-21, Hornet and EDGE, this is just disappointment of the year for me.

 

I'm a helicopter guy and Flanker is one of the few jets I really care about. And now, DCS Flanker (and I mean, real DCS Flanker) is so far away, when it already seemed so close.

 

Don't mean to blame ED, but....

 

...no.

 

Just NO.

 

 

I will have to face it.

[Dejjvid]

Even if all the 'hardcore' players are buying FC3 just to support ED, they're also buying other modules to actually play, so they wouldn't be seeing a noticeable difference in sales figures if Flaming Cliffs wasn't popular outside of the existing 'hardcore' market.

 

In some respect, you could consider that the low fidelity (more popular) products may be being used to somewhat subsidise the development of the high fidelity products, which are obviously more expensive to develop and don't sell as well.

 

Ok, let's say we have 10000 lo-fi customers. And 10000 Hi-fi customers.

 

10000 buy Ka-50 and A-10C

15000 buy FC3. (a higher sales number, but 5000 hi-fi customers only buy to support ED).

 

Then someone at marketing believe "omigosh, FC3 sales are sky rocketing, we need to shift focus to lo-fi because we need the cash flow".

 

I don't care if ED release 10 lo-fi modules between every hi-fi module.

The problem is we have been waiting for the hi-fi fighter for ages! And now we see ED shifting focus to lo-fi modules instead of pushing out the hi-fi fighter. That's disappointing.

[VincentLaw]

Ok, let's say we have 10000 lo-fi customers. And 10000 Hi-fi customers.

 

10000 buy Ka-50 and A-10C

15000 buy FC3. (a higher sales number, but 5000 hi-fi customers only buy to support ED).

 

Then someone at marketing believe "omigosh, FC3 sales are sky rocketing, we need to shift focus to lo-fi because we need the cash flow".

 

I don't care if ED release 10 lo-fi modules between every hi-fi module.

The problem is we have been waiting for the hi-fi fighter for ages! And now we see ED shifting focus to lo-fi modules instead of pushing out the hi-fi fighter. That's disappointing.

What makes you think lo-fi (FC3) customers don't buy the Ka-50 or A-10C just to support ED? They obviously keep putting out and improving the sim for both markets. Also, assuming the A-10C had higher development costs than FC3, even if you flipped those numbers, FC3 might have a higher profit margin. Edited May 8, 2013 by VincentLaw

[statrekmike]

The word is not simplified vs. hardcore but entry-level modules vs. in depth simulations. Its about time to give up elitism that sometimes shines through an accept that people have different interests and different amounts of time they can or want to invest into their hobby. If DCS appeals to all of them, we will all profit from it.

 

My 2 cents.

 

 

I don't think one can just casually brush this under the rug and call it elitism, there is much more to it than you seem to be taking into account. (please note, I am not trying to be mean or have a internet fight or anything, this is just something I have been interested in a great deal as of late).

 

Lets face it, hard core flight simming as a genre is not getting much bigger, ED is the only company right now that is actually making a fully featured combat flight sim for a consumer market and that leaves very little choice for the audience that is now used to a smaller and smaller market footprint.

 

To put it bluntly, if ED does not make a study sim than who will? I mean, sure we have BMS to fall back on but it is dated and lacks the convincing feel of a polished DCS product, you have Tacpack for FSX but that still does not solve FSX's shortcomings as a platform for a combat sim so as of right now, ED is the only channel on TV for many flight simmers.

 

Imagine how you would feel if that company started spending more and more time on less complex experiences, what started with FC3 is now moving into the F-15 and Su-27 lite modules and Matt Wagner himself pretty much indicated that the hardcore simmers don't have a lot of a vote here, hearing that kind of thing hurts when you are trying to support a company so it can keep making product that no other company is willing to invest in.

 

Now, we can go all day long about the market share issue, the fact that ED has to make money and all of that, I agree, ED needs to make mid level products that will bring in users but it also needs to be aware that many buy those products to support ED so that they will continue to make the DCS level sims we love.

 

To be honest, I am unsure of the future of DCS level sims at this stage, at least those coming from ED (where if you had asked me yesterday, I would have said the exact opposite), it seems (to me and clearly others here) that ED is not really giving us a clear picture of what is going on, I am not talking about release dates or anything, I am talking about a basic information that we need to make informed buying choices.

 

For example, in some online interviews Matt Wagner indicated that they were working on a selection of aircraft, later on May 3rd, he again talked about development of the F-15C and the Su-27, now, before you say "he never said DCS level", yes, you are right but we also already know that FC3 includes those aircraft, one would have no choice but to assume that he meant honest to goodness DCS level aircraft as a result.

 

So, instead of biting that rumor in the tail right off, they instead hit us with this now and while they assure us that they will eventually work on DCS level versions, it is probably not something that it actually happening any time soon.

 

Instead of three DCS level modern aircraft to look forward to, we now only have one and that one is clearly a long way off, so long in fact that it's release is not certain.

 

So, it is a bad time to be into DCS level aircraft it seems, I will use the analogy that I used before when I say that being into DCS level aircraft is not unlike being living in the state of Vermont during voting times, you have three electoral votes for your state while a state like California (FC3 audience) has 55 electoral votes, in the end, you can't help but feel a little helpless as a result.

 

We are willing to wait but we need to know what we are waiting for, this kind of news casts doubt on ED's stated commitment (as seen in the BS manual) to detailed combat simulators as a primary focus.

 

As I said before, I will support any DCS level endeavor that comes out but I am starting to wonder if we will ever actually see a DCS fast mover at this point.

[cichlidfan]

The problem is we have been waiting for the hi-fi fighter for ages! And now we see ED shifting focus to lo-fi modules instead of pushing out the hi-fi fighter. That's disappointing.

 

Unfortunately, for some, it is probably good business.