I have many question concerning the check list of the Mi-8...

[Skulleader]

Hello,

 

In first I'm very sorry for my poor English but I very interested by this awesome module...

 

One positive point with the simulator in general is the knowledge of one aircraft or helicopter.

Before to have the "Magnificient Eight" I did not know these helicopter but now I must learn many things about this machine.

And for the moment I work on the check-list and off course I have many questions concerning this check list...

Ma first question concerning the circuits breakers, in the tutorial for start the Mi-8 we can see the pilot of BST raise all the circuits breakers and move down three switches as this screenshot:

 

 

So I know that it's just one simulator but I've found one real video from Youtube where the pilot raise these three switches and for us with our method or check list we must move down these same three switches.

Please can you explain to me the different between these two check list ?

And please can you explain to me the function of these three switches ?

 

After always from this real video the pilote start the engine by the right motor then the BST's tutorial the pilot begin by the left engine, is important or not ?

 

With the A-10C it's very important and obligatory to start by the left engine and after the right engine.

 

I'm very sorry if my questions seems 'zero' but I want learn more on this amazing Mi-8 that we have now...

Here the video's link of the real Mi-8 that I talk in this message: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwuMiBeMuyY

 

I have others questions concerning the check list but for the moment I think that's it's OK and I wait your feedback.

 

EDIT: It's not a wrong post, just a positive post because I'm passionate by your Mi-8...

 

In advance a great thanks for your help, Skull.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Skulleader

[Slazi]

The three switches are used for anti-ice.

The engines can be started in any order, but its best to start the one away from wind first.

 

All this information is in the training mission - but if English is difficult, don't worry about it :)

 

Enjoy!

[TurboHog]

The three switches enable the circuits required for the anti-ice system to work. You can leave them off if you don't expect temperatures below 5C.

 

It looks like the helicopter in the video is on a mountain or something so it could be already around 5C or maybe they're expecting lower temperatures further down the route.

 

Engine starting depends on the wind. From the Mi-17 manual (you can find it in the Doc folder):

 

(2) The engines starting order depends on the wind direction and dictated by

the even usage of the established service life of the engines as well. The

first to be started is the engine at the leeward side.

 

This could have something to do with heat or gasses coming from the windward engine that disturb the starting of the leeward engine. This is only my guess...

 

EDIT

Ahhh Sniped

Edited September 12, 2013 by TurboHog

[zaelu]

those are just circuit breakers.

 

But the anti-icing systems are default on "Auto" and it seems they start at least for one side the anti-icing and this makes the engines load differently and creates problems with under-power.

 

So you can put them in "On" position (the 3 circuit breakers) but make sure you turn Off anti-icing after you start the helicopter. The panel to control it is up in front of the captain pilot... to the right of armament panel. It has a black round button for stop and a switch to put it in manual.

 

 

 

Note that this is my guess how it works and I like having circuit breakers On. Ready.

 

 

here is the pic from manual with the panel

 

Edited September 12, 2013 by zaelu

[xxJohnxx]

What I can't understand, why is the right engine automatically on "On" but the left engine not? Can someone please explain me the thinking behind the anti-ice system?

[zaelu]

Maybe is a "bug".... many systems are WIP still... beta.

[Skulleader]

Hello,

 

I would like to thank you for your explanations, now many things are more clear...

Yes it's true the Mi-8 is always WIP and Beta but I try to understand few things it's good ^^

 

Thanks again and best regards. Skull

[lorenzoj]

@zaelu Where are you getting the great black and white panel images.... ?

 

Edit: I found them in back of the reprint of the MI-17 Flight Manual in the DCS MI-8 folder docs...... Thanks anyway

 

This is an excellent source for flight procedures for this type too

Edited September 12, 2013 by lorenzoj

[Esac_mirmidon]

You can check also this real and very complete manual from a Mi-17 ( export version from a Mi-8MTv1)

 

Link

 

The startup checklist is great

[Skulleader]

Hello Esac,

 

YES !!!

It's a great manual, I go read this manual...

 

A great thanks for this awesome file. Skull

[AlphaOneSix]

What I can't understand, why is the right engine automatically on "On" but the left engine not? Can someone please explain me the thinking behind the anti-ice system?

 

Not a bug.

 

The anti-icing system is meant to be fully automatic in normal operation. If the detector senses ice buildup, the anti-ice systems are energized, and the ice start to go away.

 

If there has been significant ice buildup on the engine inlet lip and dust protector, the ice could get ingested into the engine during the anti-icing process, and could cause the engine to flame out and need to be restarted. In order to prevent such a situation from occurring to both engines at the same time, only the right engine gets anti-ice heating automatically. The procedure is to wait a while (I think it's 1 minute but I can't remember for sure) to make sure that the right engine isn't going to have a problem, and then turn on the left engine anti-ice manually.

[xxJohnxx]

Thank you very much for the explanation! Everything clear now! :)

[Skulleader]

Hello,

 

Still me and my eternally questions,

 

This time it's about the three switches of the "Fuel Tank Pumps", we have 3 pumps and I would like to know if the first pump is for the APU, the second pump for the left engine and the third pump for the right engine ?

Is it correct or not ?

 

EDIT: I've found in the manual of 400 pages (at the page 30) that: Service Pump, Left Pump, Right Pump, anybody can explain me the difference of these three pumps ?

I've try to start my engines just with the Service Pump and my engines work fine, but I don't know the difference between these three pumps, three fuel tanks ?

 

And other question, when I start my engine I watch the indicator of TB3-117BM engines RPM and when I can read 20% or 23% I open the engine shut-down control lever, is it a good method ?

Is it one rule for open the engine shut-down control lever ?

 

Yes I know that it's always many questions mais I'm fascinated by the check-list and also the Mi-8...

 

Once again a great thanks in advance for your help and your explanations. Skull

Edited September 12, 2013 by Skulleader

[lorenzoj]

@ Esac

 

Your link to the 400 page manual is an excellent complement to the one included by ED in the MI-8 docs. The ED one seems to have more on basic flight procedures. This one seems to cover equipment and instruments better. Great illustrations too !

[Esac_mirmidon]

Yes it´s a great manual but it was already posted before in this forum, so the credit is not for me.

[Skulleader]

Hello again,

 

There's one thing that I do not understand with the manual of 400 pages, I can read that:

 

A. Engine Start Cycle. To start the engine, the

engine fuel shutoff (fire) valve must be open, the

service cell boost pump must be on, the APU must be

operating at normal RPM, the main rotor brake lever

set full down (disengaged), the engine condition

lever centered, the twist-grip throttle full left, collective

full down, and the fuel shutoff lever full forward

(OPEN).

 

In the video of the real Mi-8 and the tutorial of BST "the Fuel shutoff lever is full backward (closed)" and in this manual I can read " the fuel shutoff lever full forward (OPEN)".

 

Anybody have one idea concerning this difference because I'm lost with this explanation...

 

PS:

I continuously to post in this topic my ideas, questions and informations because it's maybe more simple, no ?

 

Once again I would like to thank you for your help.

 

Skull.

[-MadCat-]

The quote from the manual is just a list of things needed for an engine to properly start, less of a step by step procedure on how to do so.

 

In the Mi-8 as well as in the Ka-50 the start cycle is fully automated once the start button is pressed (given all the prerequisits are met).

 

If you press the start button with or without opened cut-off valve, doesn't make a difference to the general start procedure.

Watch the EGT during start up, ignition happens not before ~20% gas-generator rpm.

 

Now my assumptions:

It doesn't make a difference if you initiate the start sequence with opened or closed cut-off valve, as long as you open the cut-off valve in time

(~20% gas-generator rpm).

That procedure could be to prevent early fuel injection before actual ignition,

again preventing excess fuel in the ignition chamber in case of a malfunction of the injection system.

 

So possibly it just is an extra layer of assurance, that fuel only enters the ignition chamber when ignition is supposed to happen.

 

As said, just assumptions!

I haven't had a single false start in the past years opening the cut-off valve at 20% GG rpm (on the Ka-50 that is).

 

Greetings

MadCat

[AlphaOneSix]

There are three fuel tanks on an Mi-8:

 

Two "saddle" tanks (the two visible fuel tanks on the sides of the aircraft), and one service tank that is underneath the APU and hydraulic block (not visible).

 

Each of the saddle tanks has a pump to get fuel from the saddle tank up to the service tank. The service tank has a float valve (similar to most toilets) that lets fuel enter when it drops below full. Everything that uses the fuel (engines, APU, and heater) is fed from the service tank. The service tank pump can be considered a "boost" pump and it takes fuel from the service tank and pumps it to the consumers. The engines also have engine driven fuel pumps (the APU and heater do not have their own pumps, and rely on the service tank pump to operate).

[AlphaOneSix]

Engine ignition takes place between 18% and 20% gas generator rpm. If you wait until 20% to open the cutoff valves, that's fine. Where I work, our checklist says to open the cutoff valve as soon as the gas generator rpm needle starts moving. Fuel pressure must build to a certain point before it is introduced into the combustion chamber anyway, so there will not be an early ignition. The fuel pressure builds up in the fuel control whether or not the cutoff valves are open. Personally, as soon as I see the rpm needle "bump", I open the cutoff valve.

[AlphaOneSix]

In the video of the real Mi-8 and the tutorial of BST "the Fuel shutoff lever is full backward (closed)" and in this manual I can read " the fuel shutoff lever full forward (OPEN)".

 

These are the fuel cutoff levers above the pilot' head. They can be in either the forward or aft positions. In the aft position, the cutoff valves are closed, if they are forward, the cutoff valves are open.

 

The cutoff valves are commonly confused with the fuel shutoff valves with are electrically operated valves located between the service tank and the engine. The cutoff vales (levers) are connected to the fuel control of the engine itself.

[MauganRa84]

I love this heli !

[Skulleader]

Hello dear friends,

 

WOW, your explanations are very interesting and now I begin to better understand the functions of the Mi-8.

Each days that I spend with this helicopter passionate me, this simulation of the Mi-8 is very awesome.

The BST's team have created one incredible and amazing module, I feel that this helicopter is will a future

 

I feel this simulator have a very positive future, it's true that is Open Beta but I do not regret this bought, for one Open Beta this Mi-8 is very well and for me it's a great module !!!

 

Once again congratulation for BST's team for his incredible work, the sound is incredible, the 3D model perfect, the cockpit awesome and flight model is very incredible too...

In one word: One must to have quickly !!!

 

Once again a great thanks for your explanations, it's very important for me.

 

Best regards and have a good day, Skull.

[PeroperoDokkiri]

We only need colidable trees to make it really close to ultimate helicopter sim of all times.

EDIT: If it is a matter of AI which can see through trees, make it an option for helicopter sessions please.

[Vinny002]

Hi, guys!

 

Please give me the detailed step by step procedure on how to start the Mi-8MTV2 engines as the Mi-8MTV2 manual is not very detailed or could the Mi-8MTV2 missing the steps and I think that is why I could not get the started. Thanks!

 

Cheers,

Vincent

[golani79]

You could take a look at this startup tutorial