atsmith6 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Forgive me if this has been asked before and I've failed to find it. I come from a BMS background where there is a ton of knowledge about just about every phase of flight available. Specifically it doesn't take much digging and you'll quickly find someone that can walk you through all the steps of a complex attack against well defended installations. What's more is this learned gentleman can likely wax lyrical for hours about a hundred interesting points that will keep you alive when the unexpected goes whazzuuuup! Problem is the world of the 550kts & 5.5G in a CAT III fast jet with afterburner is entirely different to the world inhabited by our trusty Warthog. I find that when it comes to combat norms and procedures at 200kts and slow climbs I am completely lacking and out of my depth. Worse, I have no idea where to start looking for information about how to prosecute the mission this plane was built for in a professional manner (or at least pretend to in a convincing way). Does anyone have any suggestions regarding reading material that may help me head down this long and fascinating rabbit-hole? Any morsels of information would be highly appreciated. I derive great joy from flying online and "by the book" as it were, and in this case, I have no book... :lol:
Sabre-TLA Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 This link can certainly get you started. And this link has references to many related documents. For reads I really enjoyed Osprey's Combat Aircraft #98 - A-10 Thunderbolt II Units of Operation Enduring Freedom 2002-07 by Gary Wetzel A-10's Over Kosovo by Col Christopher Haave and Lieutenant Colonel Phil Haun Also Warthog: Flying the A-10 in the Gulf War by William L Smallwood 1 MapleFlagMissions - Read Our Blog for Updates
Yurgon Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 A-10's Over Kosovo by Col Christopher Haave and Lieutenant Colonel Phil Haun Also Warthog: Flying the A-10 in the Gulf War by William L Smallwood Haha, was going to recommend those, too. Definitely good books on the topic. :thumbup:
Nealius Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Check out the Docs folder in your BMS install path. There should be a document called "Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures for Close Air Support Operations" in the "Operational Manuals" folder. I haven't read it myself as it's lacking in visuals (I don't understand much without lots of visuals) but it may be useful for mission planning.
ENO Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Haha, was going to recommend those, too. Definitely good books on the topic. :thumbup: Loved both of those. Highly recommend. "ENO" Type in anger and you will make the greatest post you will ever regret. "Sweetest's" Military Aviation Art
atsmith6 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Posted January 10, 2014 Sabre-TLA, thanks a million for the links and reading suggestions. Can't wait to get reading :) Very much appreciated mate!
atsmith6 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Posted January 10, 2014 Nealius, thanks for that. Will fish it out and start studying up. Much appreciated :)
howie87 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Some quick tips: Speed is life so don't overload the hog, she's heavy and slow enough already. Also, be mindful of induced drag. Tripple ejector racks are pretty bad for this. Never carry 3 Mavericks on one, always go with 2 or even better, don't take TER's at all. Try not to become a victim of target fixation. On a gun run, get your shots in between 1 and 0.7nm. You should be performing a safe escape manoeuvre before 0.5nm. In the A-10 you will be in a dive for most unguided deliveries so this will most likely be a climbing SEM. The extra speed you gained in the dive is useful here but don't pull too hard or you'll rip the wings off. Try to keep it around 4G's. Countermeasures - use them. Put that missile on your 3 or 9 o' clock, get your Mk1 eyeball on it and start dumping. The more chaff or flares you get in the air, the less chance there is of that missile going after you. Speed is important here also. Be quick on the CMS, fast at beaming that sucker and try and keep your energy up. Use terrain to your advantage and be aware of your surroundings. The best best climb speed in the A-10 is 200 knots minus 1 knot for every thousand feet AMSL. This is real easy to remember. Sea Level - 200 knots 10,000ft - 190 knots 20,000ft - 180 knots Hope this helps.
WildBillKelsoe Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 you cannot 'act' professional because it takes a 'real' professional to drive those.. Don't think you can jump in a real Hog and take her for a spin.. Scope of this aircraft is still a national secret, and just because the simulator puts emphasis on 95% of its systems doesn't mean you'll improve your airmanship. We have crew chiefs in these forums and dedicated, hardcore to the point of disgust clans (ehem.. VSqns..) that read alot of material, pieced the obvious together and operate pretty near realism. You want to become better and better you have to seek squadrons operating hardcore. Several I flew with ranged from very loose mercenary-based payroll to uptight strict (nun's ass) tight regimes.. It's all about finding the right people. I wasn't too comfortable with militaristic going about and love flexibility. That doesn't mean I'm the best in the 'simulator' business. If you take or want to take flying very seriously, and want to definitively kick our ass in realistic behaviour to the point of dropping our jaws in sheer awe, you have to join the Airforce. My bet is if a guy like Phil Haun jumped into our simulator and competed actively with a hardcore 24/7 Hog 'enthusiast', he'd beat the crap out of him.. My advice is, this is a 'simulator'. Take it easy, bits by bits everyday, work the main lines first then dig deeper. For example I continually refine my CCIP bombing but do I know how the code is run in the mind of a bomber trained pilot? NO! Best guess it to scratch the surface first then get to the point where I can confidently turn at X degrees for Y seconds and Z altitude loss at M airspeed so I can deliver 2 rockeyes inside the 'simulator' and be a man of 'extra' knowledge than 'all' knowledge. We all love flying but we're not all pilots, let alone combat pilots. AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
Nealius Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 The best best climb speed in the A-10 is 200 knots minus 1 knot for every thousand feet AMSL. This is real easy to remember. Sea Level - 200 knots 10,000ft - 190 knots 20,000ft - 180 knots Kind of. More precisely it's 200kts minus 5kts per 5,000 feet according to the real manual.
howie87 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Well, we can extrapolate 1 knot for every thousand feet from that data. I wouldn't say the manual is any 'more precise'.
Flagrum Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Kind of. More precisely it's 200kts minus 5kts per 5,000 feet according to the real manual. I bet I am missing something obvious, but ... "best"? In regards to what?
Nealius Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Well, we can extrapolate 1 knot for every thousand feet from that data. I wouldn't say the manual is any 'more precise'. I doubt the pilot is going to be adjusting his climb angle to match and maintain 1kt per thousand feet. That's a high work load. He is more likely to adjust his climb angle every five thousand feet and stay within 1-2kts of the 5kt value. I bet I am missing something obvious, but ... "best"? In regards to what? It says right on the top of the picture :thumbup: Edited January 10, 2014 by Nealius
Eddie Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Kind of. More precisely it's 200kts minus 5kts per 5,000 feet according to the real manual Howie is spot on on all counts. As one of his IPs I should know ;). And you do indeed adjust 1 knot per 1000 feet, it's actually pretty damn easy. Anything else isn't "best climb".
Flagrum Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 It says right on the top of the picture :thumbup: No .. or at least I don't get it (non-native speaker!?). What is meant by that term? The speed where I get the maximum climb performance? How can that be - I will climb better, the faster I am while maintaining an angle that is as steep as possible ... why would I fly slower to climb better if I am at higher altitude?
Eddie Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 How can that be - I will climb better, the faster I am while maintaining an angle that is as steep as possible No, you won't. What you're thinking of is a zoom climb, ie climbing as fast as possible by exchanging energy (airspeed) for altitude. Climbing in such a way is not very efficient and will not allow you to get to your operational ceiling. ... why would I fly slower to climb better if I am at higher altitude? It's your vertical velocity that determines the speed of your climb, not your forward velocity. If you've got a high forward velocity then you're using fuel to push you forwards, not up. All aircraft have best climb profiles. The A-10s is very simple and easy to remember. Most fighters use combinations of IAS and Mach, start with a given IAS for your weight & drag and transition to Mach as you get higher. The best/optimum climb is rarely the fastest climb, but it is the most fuel efficient. In the case of the A-10 however it is both the optimum, and when climbing to higher altitudes the fastest. In fact it's the only way you'll get to the aircrafts ceiling.
will- Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 trim out the a-10c and you can fly a 300+ knot airspeed and climb w/ all loads. I think was brought up by someone else... :x but back to trimming out the a-10c makes for a very nice agile, responsive plane! Intel i9-9900K 32GB DDR4, RTX 2080tiftw3, Windows 10, 1tb 970 M2, TM Warthog, 4k 144hz HDR g-sync.
Gary M Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) I bet I am missing something obvious, but ... "best"? In regards to what? In this example, "best" is in relation to time: Rate of climb is a ratio of altitude gained per unit of time (example: feet per minute). So, flying the "Best Rate" speed in a climb will, all other things being equal, result in the shortest time to reach a given altitude. Another metric sometimes used to define a climb is angle, which is a ratio of altitude gained per unit of distance (example: feet per nautical mile). So, flying the "Best Angle" speed in a climb will, all other things being equal, result in the shortest (forward) distance covered to reach a given altitude. Best rate is flown when you want to get upstairs as quickly as possible, while best angle is flown when you have to get over an obstacle - like trees or buildings at the end of the runway. Cheers! Gary Edited January 11, 2014 by Gary M Typo
atsmith6 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Posted January 11, 2014 Thank all of you for those posts. I was particularly wondering about climb performance while strafing a convoy in the mountains and this pre-empted that question :)
Flagrum Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Thanks Eddie and Gary. I have to ponder over this - seems I lack some basic understanding of the physics here, lol, as I still don't get it. Or rather, thanks to your explanations, I do get it what it is supposed to mean, but I still have to wrap my head around of why it is that way. But now that I got some pointers, I am sure that will come over time as well. :o)
Nealius Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Howie is spot on on all counts. As one of his IPs I should know ;). And you do indeed adjust 1 knot per 1000 feet, it's actually pretty damn easy. Anything else isn't "best climb". That makes me wonder why the manual doesn't say outright that you adjust 1kt per thousand feet...talk about beating around the bush. Edited January 11, 2014 by Nealius
Pinefang Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 I believe without actually reading any of the tactics manuals that terrain masking and knowing your surroundings ie. enemy locations is one of the best ways to survive bugging out after an attack on your enemy. You mention speed and climb rate but this bird was built for low altitude calisthenics and it is very good at them if you employ them.
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