cow_art

yea, that's why I started reducing altitude first with the Mi-8. Can't get into VRS when you are going too fast

It's probably not proper technique, but what has helped me with landings back when I started playing the Mi-8 was the following mantra: "lose altitude first, speed second". In other words: if you intend to land, start a good way out from where you want to touch down. Lower your collective a bit, so you start sinking. Trim back on the cyclic a little to control your descent rate. Keep repeating that a few times until you are pretty close to the ground. At that point you'll be low, but probably still quite fast. Now start pulling back on the cyclic more (and re-trimming + adapting collective) to lose your speed without re-gaining altitude. With a bit of practice you'll end up "low and slow" near the position where you want to touch down. Now carefully drift the final distance to the position where you want to land. When you get very close, lower the collective a tiny bit more to lose the final few feet of altitude.

Are you sure your controls REALLY recenter completely when you release them? Perhaps you don't have them calibrated perfectly and they don't go precisely to the center point. (check in the control indicator and if they don't snap back to the exact center, then perhaps add a little bit of deadzone).

My guess is the Apache will get a lot easier to control once the remaining hold modes are implemented. Going fast already works well, but going slow feels a bit like driving the Ka-50 with all AP channels off. I mean, its definitely doable. But I find it quite challenging and I guess hovering the Apache without any hold modes is probably not how it's done in real life.

You probably have the central trimmer mode enabled. In that mode you need to re-center your controls after pressing the trim button. Until you do that, all inputs are ignored. It's meant to emulate a force trim system with regular spring-joysticks. In this mode "trim up" essentially sets a new center point for your virtual controls and then waits until you have centered your physical stick/rudder pedals. Once you get used to it, it works alright. But it's a bit of a confusing and error-prone system nevertheless. I wish they would add an option where the physical controls are only disabled for a short time instead of turning them off until you have precisely hit the center point of your controls...

Looks good! One thought: I guess you'll need to use the "Trim: release" button a LOT (like: every time you touch the cyclic). Have you considered putting the Trim release in a more comfortable (=easier to reach) position? I'd probably use the DMS or CMS switch for the AP/Trim functions.

So, assuming LOS indicator is placed on the target (however it got there) this basically comes down to: 1. Maneuver helicopter until I-Beam is horizontally aligned with the 'LOS on Target' indicator 2. Fly straight and wait until the I-Beam turns from dashed to solid 3. Shoot ?

Funny, I see it exactly the other way round: The way Petrovich works allows me to build muscle memory. After a while, managing him has become very efficient and easy for me. I realize 4 buttons would probably not be enough for everything George has to do. But I'd still vastly prefer keybindings for George's most important tasks. Voice commands might be cool, but only if George is smart and autonomous enough. I imagine repeating "Look here for targets, Cancel, Look here for targets, Cancel" about 20 times before I can find the tank I am looking for wouldn't be much fun....

Next time it happens, activate Control Indicator (RCTL + Return) and check what happens. My guess would be, that the yaw-autopilot has trimmed the rudder so far to one side, that you have not enough rudder authority left (I think this can happen even when you don't use the DCS rudder trim setting).

Ah great, thanks for the info! Replaying the track is good idea, I'll definitely try that

The situation has been somewhat improved. It is much less noticable now, but there are still situations where pressing the trim button makes the Hind do things I didn't expect (AP still seems to induce some oscillations, just a bit less than before). As an armchair pilot I can't say if that's still a bug or how the real helo works. But I find it pretty annoying and currently try to keep my use of the trim button to a minimum (the 4-way directional trim works fine and does not show this behaviour btw).

Any updates on this? Unfortunately the lack of mid-mission checkpoints is the main reason I am very reluctant to buy campaigns these days.

Yes I noticed something very similar. The last update definitely made it much better, but it's not entirely gone. Sometimes the trimmer still makes the Mi-24 do wonky things I didn't expect. But now we are at a point where I as a player who has never flown a real Mi-24 can't decide if that's still a bug or just how the thing behaves in real life...

Yes unfortunately. My current workaround is to mostly use the trim-hat during precision maneuvers and landing (the hat seems to be unaffected by the bug). It's certainly not optimal but it definitely beats getting AP-induced oscillations while close to the ground.

1) I am not a real pilot, but to me the flight model seems pretty good (similar to what you get in the Mi-8 ). It is however not yet completely bug-free. For example there currently is one extremely annoying bug with the trim: (but I guess ED are aware and it will be fixed soon) Other than that, if you like the Mi-8 I can only recommend the Mi-24. It may not yet be entirely complete but overall it already seems pretty good to me.

@Lurker well said! To be honest the AI copilot is the main reason why I am hyped for the Apache. Sure it's a cool machine (I grew up playing Gunship 2000 on the Amiga), but I would not have bothered with the DCS Apache if they didn't promise a functional AI copilot. I am mostly playing SP, and as you said above: this is a game and I play this for enjoyment and relaxation. The Apache AI will hopefully allow me to focus on the parts of helicopter gameplay I enjoy: flying whirlybirds and sneaking around in the weeds. Not having to wrestle a TPG / FLIR in order to identify targets is one of the biggest advantages this will have over the Black Shark for me. Will the AI be perfect and competitive in multiplayer? Probably not. But I don't care as long as I have fun with it in SP missions

Yes it it is still buggy. I think BNs response in this bug report means, ED have acknowledged the problem: Hopefully they'll fix it soon.

Thank you OP, the video shows the problem very well. Unfortunately, for me this takes a lot of the enjoyment out of trying to fly the Hind accurately. I hope this gets fixed.

Thank you! This is great news! Unfortunately I can't read the Russian forums. I am glad to hear the devs are going to take a look at it.

I think this thread was initially less about the yaw autopilot and more about the slight "bouncing" on the pitch/roll axis that happens when you release the AP trim button. It seems, when you depress the trim button, the autopilot channels reset to the neutral positions as they should. But after you release trim button they return to the previous state, which causes some unintended movement. Personally I find this quite annoying. I have currently stopped using the trim at all when I am trying to do something that requires precision (such as lining up an attack run). Of course I have no idea if this is how the real Hind works, but that would be really surprising to me. Essentially every time you release the trim button the AP ever so slightly screws up the stability of the helo - I can't believe that real world pilots would be happy with this. I am guessing this is either a bug or a non-optimal attempt of bringing the real Hind controls into the game world of DCS. There is also a bug report for this here :

The reason some of us are confused is probably related to the observation that the Hind AP is sometimes overcorrecting when the trim button is clicked (behaviour similar to what happens on the Ka-50 when the trimmer is clicked instead of held down). See :

Sorry if I am not very clear, English is not my first language. I was not suggesting that the AP in the Hind works similarly to the Ka-50. Only that perhaps the trimmer needs to be used in a similar way. So far I have seen two different trimming methods with DCS helos (I am using a spring-centered stick): In the Mi-8 or the Huey you first move your stick to a new position and then **click** the trimmer button and re-center your stick. If you try that in the Ka-50 you get the kind of overcorrection Blackeye and myself have also been observing in the MI-24. In the Ka-50 hat's happening because the trimmer system wants to be used differently: In the Ka-50 you are instead supposed to first **depress** the trimmer button, then move your stick to a new position and then **release** the trimmer button again (and re-center your stick). All I was suggesting is that maybe the trimmer in the Hind is supposed to be used in the "Ka-50 way" not the "Mi-8 way". But I have never flown a helo in real-life, least of all a Hind. Thats why it would be great to get confirmation from someone more in the know

Yes, that's why I was assuming it is a bug. You are right, it might be correct-as-is and we just need to use the trim like in the Ka-50. But for me that would be surprising. Anyway, it would be great to get confirmation if this is working as intended.

Hm. Sorry if I misunderstand. Just to be sure: this should not happen with the "center trim" option, right? Because I have that enabled -> When I press the trim button the game ignores all further cyclic inputs until I center my stick. But I am still observing the AP overcorrecting the way the Ka-50 does. Is this supposed to happen? If so, how do I prevent it? Edit: I use a regular spring-centered Joystick (CH Fighterstick)

Yes I noticed the same thing. Tapping the trim button makes the Mi-24 overcorrect the same way the Ka-50 does. Perhaps this is a bug?