jojyrocks

Hope you guys don't overtax yourselves... If we had a choice between A-6( whichever of these version you guys/girls get docs on, E/B/C and or A) and the KA-6. Any full combat oriented capable A-6. It certainly is not the tanker. I personally don't know what I'd do with a tanker other than play support on MP...flying circles. So...ANY one version would be more than enough. Less complications and less workload than having to do with two. Good luck on your ventures.

Its not about the overstating...the stressing here is the Fire and forget ability. The blueforce has this, the redforce does not except the FC3 Mig 29 and J-11.

So...Su-27SK can use the R-77? Maybe I might have forgotten...what model of the FC3 Su-27 do we use? Is it the S version? I did mention both M and K. Su-30M certainly can and has a good A2G weapon load. It is seen with A2G missiles. That is a plus. However, I am not sure if Su-30K having good A2G weapons like missiles etc..info on K is vague and most of the pics are rare, mostly from the Indian air force early inductions. Well I guess the end point is, we all want is the ability to tango with SOME of the blueforce jets that has the FIRE and FORGET AIM 120. Well, whichever redforce jet has this ability then its very good...if we do ever manage to get it

Do I need to stress on everything...every single minuscule point? Its too troublesome to type and specify each model and their specifics of modernity in regards to blueforce. The Mig 29 9.13 or S version can carry the ARM missiles to toe in with the Blueforce that majority of them has the AIM 120 ARM. (Fire and forget Active radar missiles for ARM). That gives the Mig 29S a form of modernity. To me its modern enough...if it can carry ARM missiles. With Mig 29A, fighting against an USAF F-15 equipped with AIM 120 is a clear loss. They'd steamroll the Mig 29. Even if it is 6-8 Mig 29A against two USAF F-15 armed with AIM 120. They can fire all those missiles, fire and forget or fire multiple targets at once simultaneously, like 6 or so in one go, focus on evasion all the while the Mig 29A will have to maintain its radar lock for the SARH R-27 series guide. It has to keep that lock and cannot do evasions till the missile hits the intended target.

Yeah...that too, but Su-30 series still had more of that multi role fit to tango with the modern jets. Most of Su-27SK and J-11A have bare A2G ability and SK still carried those SARH missiles that is a big disadvantage when fighting against AIM 120 equipped blueforce. Realistically, one can only hope Su-27SK and J-11A to be worked on and yes, the lack of backseater does reduce workload on modeling that. But still, the Su-30M or K is a downgrade from the MKK...It does have much better weapons arrangement. Also good on sales.

Yup. So at most, we can expect Gulf war timeline and campaigns where most of the USAF jets still were armed with Sparrows and they had only begun to add AIM-120 as the conflict got going. Mig-29A could be restricted to early 90s fights. If we got the Mig 29 9.13. Then it would be good match to tango with modern western jets. At least the Redforce would have just ONE modern clickable plane against Blueforce.

Just for a confirmation! Provided that the team is building the A-6 as a module. Is it JUST the A-6E or do you plane to add other versions of it as full playable modules? I am guessing that it would be just A-6E as playable module being planned and that the KA-6 would be an AI asset rather than module.

So pretty much...they should've maybe stuck with cold war era planes than the best modern blueforce. But, the thing is, most here like the most modern they can get their hands on. ED has almost fully run out of modern planes, the other modern planes require permission. Currently Redforce and Blueforce are not balanced. When the Eurofighter joins from TrueGrit, the Redforce would be nothing more than target practice. Now despite them saying they do not intend to do Century series planes. It is pretty apparent that they'd focus more on game engine and maybe AI 3D model plus features assets than modules. There is still PLENTY of cold war era planes left. I think the Mig 29A is the furthest they can get with Redforce, rest would depend on politics and which third party company gets the favoured deal. I'd rather see the H-6 Bomber as an AI asset than a full module. Its too niche plane and very much a strategic bomber for the PLAAF and yes...very complicated to develop those along with crew of having 4 and lots and lots of switches and systems to model. Only super purist would buy as most actually PREFER fast combat jets that either has secondary air to air and air to ground ability. The most I can see DEKA can develop in a believable sense is, Q-5 and the J-8 than the Su-30MKK. If there are no docs to these then I do not know what they CAN develop (there aren't other Chinese planes much) unless it some J-7 jet and even if it is that, they'd have to make sure it is different from the Mig-21bis which we already have. There would not be much sales if they went to create something like J-7 early version, Copy of Mig-19 and Mig-17 (J-6 and J-5). They could also TRY and maybe get permission for Su-30K for which I believe is not so modernized as the MKK, but could still carry the modern Active radar missiles.

Looks to me, then there is nothing pretty much to model. I can understand the unavailability of documents for Su-30MKK....its still very much in service. But if done, We'll finally get a PROPER Redforce jet to tango with NATO folks/BLUEFORCE. Also good sales. Documents not there for J-8 and Q-5?! Those planes are almost fully retired. These planes also fit pretty good with Deka saying they needed a break from planes with BIG MFD. Don't really care about the H-6...complicated slow bomber...but that is just me....

Mig 29A is only a good fit for some Gulf war timeline scenarios where Majority of the USAF was still equipped with Sparrows SARH. The big advantage USAF plus the coalition had was AWACS aid. AWACS is the biggest contribution for the F-15 peerless record. Dating from Israeli air force using it during 1982 Lebenon wars where they also had AWACS aid. Now all we need is an Iraq map.

So...one thing is not clear to me. Are we getting JUST the A-6E as a full on module or is it a double full module, as in A-6E and KA-6? Personally, I more into the A-6E, not the tanker. Its only useful in MP...for SP, its just flying circuit and refueling others. But that is just me....

Firstly...It has been like AGES that we see our REMAINING AI 3D models to getting some updates....Plenty of Gimp/Paint early Flanker 2.0 and LOMAC models... As for NEW AI 3D planes: Su-30M - Russian version of their own slightly updated base version. I know we have the base version, but it looks like its not even the to be updated AI 3D roadmap. Rafale series F-18 Super Hornet F-111 series Mig 29K F-22 and F-35 - IF it is possible to even create an AI 3D model... J-10 E-8 JSTARS - IF we do get some J-STARS feature in future. Mig-17 Su-15 Airbus A400 Civilian. Boeing 747 Boeing 737 series (good for escort missions) Airbus A320 IL 96 IL 62 Falcon 2000 Gulfstream G450. Learjet family series...any model.

I really do like the F-102. That plane looks beautiful. But one thing that bugs me about it is, the lack of fun value. Lacking in gun option. I mean, lets present a scenario where you have managed to come behind a an enemy plane, say a Mig-21 or Mig 19 and (F-102 did see service in Vietnam). There aren't much of many options you could do with an F-102 other than as a makeshift fodder interceptor and Single run CAS support. The missiles the F-102 carried were finicky at best and trying to fight a maneuverable planes is gamble. When you do miss and run out of missiles, you'd be wishing for a gun backup. It does not have a gun. It was pretty much a fodder plane in Vietnam. Reportedly out of around 54 missiles fired only 5 scored hits. Vietnam veteran Fighter ace, Col. Robin Olds was VERY critical of the missile that the F-102 types only carried. I know he does not fly the F-102. But the early Phantoms were equipped with the AIM 4 Falcon series missiles. It was only fit against slow flying bombers or unassuming fighters that did not see you coming. So instead of the F-102, I added the F-106 in the list as the later models did have guns as backup option. Yes Sukhoi 7 did see ACTION with Egyptians...as well as Indian air force and the later did reportedly manage some air to air kills. They also did have sales with other nations...albeit not combat. Most of my additions are in regard to overall sales POV and fun value. A module does take around 4 years and above to make and so for the More SALES point of view is more viable goal to push forward for more profitable development than settling for Specific set planes that only interests few. For fun value, it must have a GUN OPTION if missiles fail as last resort and has to have some secondary air to air or ground pound ability. This only applies to Century series jets where...missiles of those days were finicky at best on maneuverable targets.

I was comparing the F-100D with early to mid cold war jets. Not the present day jets in war experience. I certainly did point out F-100D had seen good amount of experience...in Vietnam and high tension situations in Europe, Cuban missile crisis etc... I specifically added the word "RICH" combat history to denote actual combat in the OLD days, before the 70s and 80s . Not the current era easy target helpless terror dudes with zero risk where, most of the combat are to just test some weapons and live test jets.

Well ED did state...they have no plans of doing any century series planes...maybe the other 3rd parties can. We are also running out of DOABLE MODERN jets and there is a limit there we cannot cross due to security concerns for too too modern planes. Still, present service and recent retired aircrafts are hard to get info on. Also there are some century series planes with hard to get info...so don't expect prototypes or short career planes. Personally from what I believe on the doable realistic expectation for the century series/early and mid cold war jets are as follows: USA 1) F-4 Phantom - Most famous and still has present users, it had good sales too, plus combat rich history. Carrier version can have carrier landing fun. This will garner good sales, it is the most awaited. 2) F-104 series - Barring the plenty of crashes for G version...it still hold plenty of records and was NASA's favoured plane for tests in those era. An exotic plane that also has some combat history. Had seen good sales too. 3) A-4 Skyhawk series - Had good sales and combat rich history. Carrier version can have carrier landing fun. There is a mod... 4)F-100 - OP choice here. OK sales. This plane has seen action only in Vietnam. Still, doable plane. But will still be a souped up F-86 Saber on steroids. Well, it is called SUPER Saber... 5). F-105- It was a USA only exclusive plane. Only seen combat at Vietnam at most. 6) F-106 - Has gun option in later models. It was just an exotic plane...but still has gun cannon availability in the age of finicky missiles at that time. F-102 is the predecessor that lacked the gun, but developed from that. But F-102 had seen sales plus combat. Russia 1) Su-17 series : Good sales and has seen plenty of combat. Doable. This isn't exactly a century series age plane...there is always the Su-7, which it was developed from, but that only had combat history for the Indian air force. Su-17 is not truly a century series plane... 2) Su-15 - Not exactly century series. But the only plane that had an option of carrying guns in the age of finicky missiles. Other Euro Nations 1) Dassault Super Mystere - Seen OK sales and good combat history among Israeli air force. We have a Map for it too... 2) Hawker Hunter series - Seen plenty sales and rich combat history. 3) SAAB 35 Draken - Not exactly close to century series...but its, well, exotic. Not much combat history either... Out of the above, F-106, F-102 and the Su-15 would have a hard time getting documents for...some of its systems and avionics were at those time considered very top secret. Also some of the early century series hard documents are hard to get. Much like trying to get info on Japanese WW2 planes minus the zero... I've only added gun capable plane coz during century series age, missiles were kinda finicky and if the missile missed and you're out of weapons. It would be a very awkward moment just staring at the big supposed target, lets say a bomber and your out of missiles and would be thinking, If only I had a gun/cannon now... Like USA Russian true century series planes are exotic and hardly any info docs and short services. Examples of those are the Su-9 and Su-11 and they do not have guns. There are several versions of Mig 21 and there is the Mig 17. But we already have a Mig 21 and a Mig 15. It would not amount to much sales for Mig 17 or the other early Mig 21 variants. I HAVE NOT added what is already being or possibly worked on.

J-8 can also do both air to air and air to ground. However, I would not mind the Q-5 either...it does have users other than China. Since DEKA had already said, they do need a break from huge MFD centric planes, yeah... J-8 can do secondary ground pounding and Q-5 can also do some secondary air to air...at least on Self defence. And both got cannons, which is a plus. Both are almost retired... -----------------------------------

The chance of Tejas being done is EXTREMELY low, almost impossible. Indian Navy LCA Tejas is cancelled, it was only seen as a semi tech demo with learning experience. Only Air force version is developed and its still too fresh, plus some of them are still undergoing finalizing tests along with being in present service. DCS world would not do LATEST current service jets. Some of the docs that are needed would be almost impossible to get due to security concerns. It is already very difficult to get to do of Russian present gen jets. Also, we'd need a MAP that fits the scenario of the Indo-Pak wars...like a map that fits, maybe North Indian parts stretching to Pakistan etc. Currently, Pakistan has both F-16, JF-17 and the Mig 19 as stand in for its Chinese copy. As for India, only Mig 21 and Mirage 2000. Yes, I know, at present they updated Mig 21 to Bison standards and Mirages to 2000-5 standards. If your friend has Dev team, they'd need to contact ED and see what are the documents required for modeling a DCS level jet...They'd need permission to model and convince it would not be a security issue. The most they can HOPE to do is model Mk1. Not MK1A. While I do not see this happening, EVER. I can see it would garner more sales if Tejas and or even a Indo-Pak map is made (Yes. as well as Indo-Pak war in the forums here ). Rest would depend on getting permission from Govt of India on security concerns.

The chance of Tejas being done is NIL. Indian Navy LCA Tejas was cancelled, it was only seen as a semi tech demo with leaning experience. Only Air force version is developed and its still too fresh plus some of them are still undergoing finalizing tests along with being in present service. DCS world would not do LATEST current service jets. Some of the docs that are needed would be almost impossible to get due to security concerns. Wiki info is not withstanding nor are accurate. Its not sufficient. Other docs are needed to fully model a DCS level module. One of the reasons why DCS finds it hard to do a full module clickable Russian jet of present gen or jets still in the 90s.

We'll be lucky to get even one, and that one is the F-4E which has seen like PLENTY of sales and fights. Three seems to be asking too much for a Module that was put into indefinite hold. What we could realistically ask is just two as this is an iconic plus rich combat history airplane. Navy Phantom will certainly bring that extra Naval landing fun without the modern HUD and all. Then again, it does take around like 4 years to develop a module, less is like 3 years. Personally for me; I'd be wishing for the F-4J or S as the extra second for Carrier fun. The originally intended F-4E is already in consideration for the "TO BE" developed list by the original intended developers. Wishing on the third export model: Likely candidates that has some difference is the short lived Rolls Royce equipped Phantoms of UK... I do not know about the rest of the export model that can be developed...Israeli Kurnass 2000.? Highly unlikely.... Who knows? We might just get the Phantoms maybe in between 2025-2030

Just coz there is no pics does not mean they did not use it. USMC planes mostly took off from nearby bases than carriers at majority. They are CAS focused and in the beginning, they did carry it. When I posted the pics, I only intended to show that, they can carry it. As for UK Phantoms, there are a good amount of pics on UK Phantoms. Wiki is not fully wrong nor fully correct... This is the closest I could find about their usage on Vietnam and USMC was CAS focused.

I don't know about the Navy, but I heard in some articles they did have it in the inventory over there at Vietnam, but chose not to carry coz of its unreliability and unlike AF, they needed the extra fuel tanks more. However its is stated in wiki that the USMC did carry gun pods primarily for strafing runs and they preferred to carry two. The Navy and USMC pretty much use the same planes, so I am sure the F-4 Naval/Marines can carry these gunpods.

Initially, the Naval and USMC Phantoms did use the gunpods in combat missions, but soon found that they jammed. So Navy did limit the usage...US.Marines still used it to some degree more than Navy as they were the once doing more CAS missions and strafe runs. Yes, the AF was the most big users of gunpod.

What I meant was the active live combat experience...as in dropping bombs and combat etc in ME regions. Not the deployed part on the middle eastern theaters where the Naval variants mostly did was " overseeing and policing duties". They did not actively participate in those Israel-Lebanon wars. However the E version saw tons of combat and had many sales. But yet...as said, hypothetical fictional duties can be made in ME maps. I am not against Naval phantoms. I certainly would be delighted to see one included in DCS as a module.

ED did say they've got no plans for Vietnam map and its not on the roadmap for them. Maybe some 3rd party devs could make it a reality...

I had to go back re-edit the aircraft CONDITION in the mission editior to around 40 percent to finally get a kill and proceed to the next mission. I did get the kill after lobbing 3x R-77 and 2xR73. I guess we'll see this changed after couple of years from now...maybe after 4 years down the line coz there are still some AI 3D models that need updating from LOMAC and Flanker 2.5 era. Seems updating AI 3D models is not big on the priority list.