Notso

Not accurate.

I have a related question about DGFT mode.... Everytime I use boresight or vertical to get a lock, if I then thumb forward to switch to MRM mode to use the AIM-120, it breaks the lock. Is this correct behavior? If so, how do I switch missile modes while in DGFT from AIM-9 to AIM-120 and back? There's been many a time I've missed a fleeting shot because I've broken lock trying to go to a -120. TIA.

I am definitely looking forward to the more robust ATC comms that ED promises in the newsletter.

Zactly. Most all airports - mil and civ alike - will have pre planned arrival and departure procedures depending on whether IFR or VFR and depending on where you're arriving from or going to. It could be as complex as a SID or IFR approach or as simple as a visual reporting point to sequence you into/out of the traffic pattern. For instance, Nellis AFB has a bunch of VFR departure and arrival procedures to use depending on the runway in use, which range you're going to and whether you have live ordnance or not. An example is the Stryk recovery when coming from the Western NTTR ranges. You would check in with Nellis Approach and they would clear you for the arrival procedure and then you likely wouldn't talk to them again until they passed you off to tower. You would be expected to follow the ground track and the altitude restrictions with no comms necessary. The procedure would take you to a point to line up on the respective runway typically for initial. Usually, these points would be programmed into the WP Nav route but the fighter crews would also know the visual references to follow as well. There are even specific recoveries for A-10s since their speed differential with the fast movers can cause conflicts. For those that are interested, google Nellis AFB Instruction 11-250 to see how this works IRL.

You have the option of "SLAVE" or "BORE" on the SMS. If you want the Aim-9 to slave to the radar or the HMCS, then select slave. In both cases though, you have to uncage the seeker to get the missile to track after pickle.

That's very cool, thanks!

JDAM does not use Bang-Bang guidance.

For those that want the official source: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a404426.pdf Distribution/Availability Statement Approved for public release, distribution unlimited

Ding!

Hi all, I've been offline for about a month (traveling) and now trying to catch up on where the F-16 is since I last saw it. Is there a resource somewhere that has a consolidated list of updates and where the aircraft is at present? I'm finding it not only daunting but actually confusing to try to go through all the forum threads, ED updates, etc to attempt to find out what's changed and what is still WIP since I last saw it. I'm not sure if it exists, but it would be really cool if there was a spreadsheet or something where each main platform (F-16, F-18, A-10, etc) had the status of each system and subsystem listed with a status such as: In Open Beta release in Stable Release WIP progress (with rough %) Not started Not Planned Etc Anything like this exist anywhere? If not, maybe that will be a project for a rainy day......

Exactly! Unless your entire NAV system was down and you were IMC - calling tower and asking for a vector to the runway on a clear day would get you laughed out of the Squadron.

That is exactly the opposite of how its supposed to be done. Faster is better, up the weapon carriage limits.

Yep, I understand that. The issue is the Wingmen don't seem to follow ME when I go to a different freq.

Thanks, I thought I was doing something wrong in setting the tankers up or something.

Hi Yoda, no worries. All good on the weathervane definition. However, it is incorrect that modern tactical jets from about 2005ish don't have a means to measure or input the winds for other than release altitude so it can give the weapons computer better data to adjust the release point. See my thread over on the DCS 2.5 forum for a discussion on wind models. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=257983 Yes, very early bombing computers with early INS could only measure the wind at release - so the bomb solution assumes a constant 40 kt wind for instance from release all the way to the surface, which is not ever going to happen. Then later they added algorithms to measure the winds at release and then extrapolate those winds to the surface using a wind decay formula of some sort - as the norm is the winds typically decrease as you get lower in altitude. But even that was found to be seriously lacking - as the winds never follow some standard pattern. You can have light winds at 15K and 30kts on the surface. You can have winds 90-180 deg different directions between release and the ground. So the engineers built better wind model programs to attempt to account for this either through the ability of the pilot to manually input the forecast winds in the TGT area or have the computer auto capture them as it flies through various altitudes. Or both. Usually both. Again, I cannot say with certainty that the Hornet or the Viper has the ability to either manually input winds at various altitudes or have the jets computer auto capture them as it climbs or descends - but other contemporary jets such as the A-10C and the Strike Eagle absolutely have that ability. So it would greatly surprise me if either of the aforementioned jets did not have the same capability. And I still somewhat disagree that in all cases the bomb is having to fight its way upwind the entire way. If the bombing computer is doing its job, the jet is going to release upwind of the target and the bomb will fall downwind towards the TGT - either ballistically if the laser is off, or on a direct LOS path to the target if the laser is on and the seeker head sees it. But in both cases the bomb is already UPWIND of the target. Unless something is really screwed up at release, the bomb doesn't cross over the target to the other side and then have to swim back upstream. It just doesn't work that way. Even if you drop the weapon in a direct HW, yes in this case it will have to fight its way upwind - but the jet should compensate for that by dropping it much closer to the target than in a no wind situation and the combo of vectors will still have the weapon arrive at the target. So yes in this one case its fighting its way upwind, but that release point has already (in theory) been compensated for in the release point IF it has good wind data and the GBU won't have to expend as much energy as it would if the wind was not accounted for correctly. But even despite all these Gucci advanced wind models - nothing is ever perfect or steady. So the mantra is: "IF POSSIBLE, NEVER DROP WITH A HW OR XW". Its the "if possible" that always bites you.

I'm running into a weird thing recently with the Viper that I never had a problem with in the Hornet or A-10. Whenever I switch radios to the tanker or to AWACs, the wingman won't go over with me - on either UHF or VHF. If I send him commands such as change formation, etc while on those other freqs - no response. I have to go back to the original freq we took off on to get him to respond. I've even programmed the various agencies into the radio preset menu in the mission edit window and still no joy. In addition, I've built several single player ME's with a Tanker track to go refuel on the way into or out of a target or engagement and the command to send the wingman to the tanker in the comm menu is not there. In both the flight or wingman "GO TO...." command menu, the option to "Go to the tanker" menu command is not there. But I never had an issue with that in the other modules. I simply cannot get the wingman to tank. One final comm issue not related to AI wingman.... how do I change the radio using the preset channels?? I toggle over the preset channel, the rocker sw up or down to select the preset channel, hit enter after selecting something like CH 5 and it just flashes but never actually changes the radio freq. I have to manually punch in the numbers each time. It obviously user error, but it's driving me crazy!

Is there a link to this "Battle Book" somewhere? Sounds useful. Thanks.

Ah ha, very cool. Thanks. So its a manually entered profile like I described above. Does the LASTE have the ability to capture winds, or only through manual entry? What if the winds are not entered into the profile. What does the A-10C use to calculate weapons releases? It would be interesting to see what the F-16 and F/A-18 have as well.

That's a valid point. It's often difficult to keep up with the status of every update, every WIP, etc. You have to sift through a lot of posts on a constant basis to know what finished and what not. A thought is to perhaps have a single document as a sticky at the top of each module forum in a table format that lists the current status of each main system and subsystem. For instance, maybe something like a spreadsheet that would list the main systems like flight model, Skins, engine, TPOD, A/A RDR, A/G RDR, weapons, etc. This way we can have a single one stop status overview place to go. It may stop a lot of the constant questions about where a particular system is. I'm sure the Project managers at ED are working to something like this already. It wouldn't be hard to post a watered down version of the project status. Just a thought

Thanks, happy to help out. I'm always worried I'm overdoing it and getting into TL;DR. But its a complex subject. I think the DCS wind model (or lack of one) is at the key to a lot (but not all) of these LGB miss issues being reported. Almost all tactical jets since at least about the mid-2000s will have some sort of wind model that will not only calculate the release point based on the release alt winds, but will then extrapolate those winds down to the surface using a set of pre-programmed assumptions so it can adjust the 3D release point taking all of that into account. As tapes got more sophisticated and features were added based on real world lessons learned - the wind models got much more detailed and user configurable. For instance, through the MPD in flight or through the DTC after mission planning back in the Sq - the pilot could preselect several wind bands to either manually input the winds based off the forecast or more ideally capture the winds in the target area in real time. The latter being the prefered method for obvious reasons. That works fantastic if you're doing a low level ingress and then will pop up to med altitude to drop the weapons, because you capture the winds on the climb and they are then used by the bombing computer to massage the release point. But that's not always practical if you're doing a med or high altitude ingress to the target. If the three main jets we are discussing (Hornet, Viper and A-10C) do not have this and rather have the single wind model that adjusts for winds at release only - that's not a slam on DCS or the ED team. But it may just be reflective of the tape loads at the time of the block jet they are modeling. And if so, it means there is still a lot of knowledge of how the LGBs work and a lot of technique to account for those variables. That's real life. The one thing most people need to understand is a GBU-12 and certainly not a GBU-10 is a 100% death ray from above. PWII is a finicky weapon that requires lots of love and understanding to make work well. :smilewink: If you think the PWII is difficult - try a PWIII, which I hope we will be getting soon. Yeah a GBU-24 can handle winds FAR better than a GBU-10 and is far more accurate. But it is a very difficult weapon to understand and employ, depending on the mode used. There were LOTS and lots of GBU-24 misses in the early days of both OIF and OEF due mainly to just plain misunderstanding of the weapon, especially when trying to get them inside cave entrances in Tora Bora.

In a modern combat aircraft, almost every system relies on the INS and/or GPS working correctly with high quality data. A specific INS alignment quality or GPS position quality are often GO/NO GO items. Most systems that now use an integrated INS/GPS nav computer (usually called an EGI - pronounced Eggy) Enhanced GPS-INS unit black box - the parking spot ramp coordinates are no longer required to be input into the jet for alignment. Once the jet has enough Satellites to track for a high quality FOM, the GPS will automatically align the INS on the ground and keep it updated throughout the flight. In the past, before GPS became ubiquitous, the pilot would have to manually align the INS on the ground to his/her specific parking coordinates and then manually update the INS during the flight using the TPOD or the A/G radar (or even an overly mark point) to known locations on the ground as the INS would usually drift over time. Even the best INS's could drift up to a mile or more over the course of a 1.5 hour sortie.

If you're attempting to use AP while refueling, you're doing it wrong.

To your bolded statement above, that is not exactly correct. The bomb doesn't "weathervane" when its released because both the jet and the bomb are flying in the same air mass. For instance if you are dropping in a 41kt crosswind, at the instant the bomb is ejected off the pylon, it doesn't suddenly cock into the wind because its already travelling in the same air mass and drifting downwind with the jet. You are correct, however, that when the bomb sees the laser spot, it will then Point at the laser spot on a direct LOS path. Ideally though, the jet's bombing computer has already accounted for the wind and moved the release point well upwind. So once the laser is turned on, the bomb is already upwind of the target and it doesn't have to "fight" the wind to get there. The easy way to tell this is to look at the TD box on the ground and the Bomb Fall Line (BFL). If you are dropping with no wind or a pure HW or TW - the BFL will be coincident with the TD box. i.e. it will run right through the box or diamond on the ground. However, if you're dropping in a crosswind, the BFL should be upwind of the TD box or diamond on the ground. If you line up early, you will be able to see the TD box in your HUD and compare the BFL to it. The stronger the wind, the more the BFL is upwind of the box/diamond on the ground. It appears that DCS is modelling winds because I've noted the TD Box upwind of the target on XW attacks. But I suspect it's only accounting for the wind at the release altitude. I don't know what the DCS wind model does after that. The worst case scenario is if the winds are relatively light at altitude but strong on the surface, the jet won't account for enough wind correction at release and the bomb will most likely miss because it then has to fight its way back upwind. The reverse is true as well such as a honking wind at altitude but very light halfway down to the surface. But this usually isn't as catastrophic unless the bomb is too far upwind for the target to be out of the relatively narrow seeker FOV. The simple answer is, if possible, try to avoid dropping in a crosswind at all costs.

It has nothing to do with the bomb's wind limitation, it likely has to do with the jet's inability to calculate the winds at other than the release altitude and therefore adjust the release point correctly. If the release point is accounted for correctly and you delay lase - the bomb should (in theory) have sufficient energy to hit the target. I posted a question to the Mod's about wind modelling that might explain some of what you're seeing: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=257983 The reality is that despite your best efforts and even if you do the attack perfectly - sometimes the bomb just misses. No weapon is 100% perfect, even JDAMs, although they are close. Barring a seeker failure (which does sometimes happen), the culprit for most misses is either too much spot motion - moving the crosshair around in the last critical 10 sec or so - or strong winds at the surface. If the jet's bombing computer can't account for that wind and adjust the release point upwind accordingly, then the bomb will struggle to hit the target. Sometimes "sh*t happens. That is why most weapons accuracies are expressed as CE90 or CE50. I don't remember the exact numbers, but let's say the CE90 of a GBU-12 is 5 meters and the CE50 is 5m. That means that 90% of all weapons dropped will hit within 5m of the aimpoint and 50% will hit within 3m. Which obviously means that 10% & 50% don't hit within those parameters. To mitigate some of these wind issues - if tactics, threats and the target orientation allows - always try to drop with a Tailwind.

Hey Ziptie, to your Q1 - I have not seen any issues so far with lasing the top of a tank turret or the roof of a building. That is the preferred technique with a horizontally developed target and I've had very good success tank plinking that way with GBU-12s. On your Q2 comment - I disagree with your statement about lasing 5 sec after release from a higher altitude drop. A 5 Sec delay after release is (from the bomb's POV) continuous lasing. Typical Time of Fall (TOF) from say 20K is around 35 sec. So if you are delaying only 5 sec - then you are getting a full 30 sec of lase time which is essentially continuous lasing. If you truly want to delay lase, then you want to to wait until no earlier than 15" Time to Impact (TTI). Ideally, you would want start lasing around 8-12" TTI for a true delay lase attack. Anything over 16 Sec of lasing time is considered Continuous lase for practical purposes. As I said on in earlier post - there are two schools of thought on the Continuous Lase vs Delay Lase technique when we are doing Medium Altitude or higher deliveries, i.e. 15K HAT or higher. The Continuous Lase camp correctly says that the bomb will be in an energy gaining maneuver due to the ballistics and long TOF and that it will have more than enough energy to overcome the bang bang guidance issues. The Delay Lase guys say that more energy is always mo better, so delay lasing is the way to go. Plus it keeps you in one habit pattern because Low Altitude deliveries are almost always delay lase, so just do it one way always for muscle memory. There are some caveats however. The accepted technique is that if there are known strong winds at the surface and your jets wind model will account for it, then delay lase to make sure the bomb has more than sufficient energy to overcome the wind. If however you have unknown winds or a suspected wind shear where it changes directions from release altitude to the surface, then continuous lase to make sure the bomb doesn't get blown out of the seeker FOV before the laser is turned on and live with some lower energy and takes your chances that it hits.