Nedum

Yes, the old bad times are back. Was flying the quick FC3 Su27 mission and with 1.5.1 the ERs, ETs and 73s I hit nothing again. The ERs not even try to fly to the target... if the target uses chaff the ERs going straight from the start to the first chaff, no matter what. And the 73s looking more for my own engines as for the enemy ones... what a BS again. So again only guns, guns, guns.:mad: On the other site I can use chaff and flares the whole long time and not one enemy missile goes for it.... If I can't dodge them they'll hit me. If I fly with the F15C one missile one hit (against AI). :huh: What's going on?

Dude? :megalol: To make it short... no! No time to explain the world of physic again and again and again.....! If you think that the BF109 K-4 behaves any near in RL as she does like in this game, then this is ok, but I have dicussed so many times the behavior of planes and many people told me the planes must fly like they do right now and a few month later the planes are flying as I have told, but I was wrong before. :huh: Look at the Su27. I can't tell how often even Yo-Yo told me... "you are wrong" with how the throttle should working for the Su27 and the friction of the wheels and so on. And now with 1.5 the Su27 has all this "wrong" features and I'll bet there will be some more incoming. The same game with the F15C and the FW190. Please do not try to tell me how wrong my thoughts are. Most of the time, even it last a bit, I was right from the start, because most of this game is physic and for this you must not really fly the RL bird.... it's pure logic you need. I see every day (in RL ;)) taildragger land and start and 3 times the month a FW190 A6, and I never saw any behavior we have in this game at those birds during a landing or a start. The FW190 in DCS is now a really good flying plane and even the starts and landings are 100 times more ease as it was at the beginning. And no.. it's not because I am now more trained... I have used different patches for my tests. And Even I can land and start the FW190 with both hands on my back, the K4 is a pain in the ass to start and land. So no, I will never believe that the current behavior of the K-4 is any near like the bird would behave in RL. Even I've looked at the RL Vids I couldn't see any of the DCS K-4 behaviors. I will never believe that you couldn't trim out the K-4 at a speed higher as 460 kph. Sooner or later we will see that the K4 will become more like a RL plane.... I'll trust in ED! :thumbup:

The trees are not the problem. It seems so that they are the only ones looking like they should. The overall haze/fog is the real problem and let the whole game look like a grey "thing". All looks flat. And so, if something doesn't look "flat", like the trees, those things seems to be wrong but they aren't. ;)

Ok this doesn't work. With this "fog" overall the whole game lost the possibility to spot targets. Ground or air all becomes a "flat" picture, because the color is more or less the same for all objects. All becomes grey.. some more green, brown or a darker grey, but it's like you paint a picture with a grey color as long as only some details will be noticed if you look at a very short distance. The whole map lost the "deep" so we can spot targets. Here you see it very clear. I cannot even see the trees anymore because they all look like "one" piece. So the distance trees looking right but the rest of the map is really bad looking.. all is grey so you cannot see a difference between front and background. Look at the “grey” trees! This looks awful! Even the buildings are looking like a flat picture. There is no "3D" look left. So the dark green trees are the only one which are looking right. Te rest looks like a "flat" skin. That's the reason we/I can't spot anything anymore. Try to spot the grey/haze trees near the cockpit. I cannot say as quick as before how many trees are there, even the buildings looking "flat", molten with the background. This is very near to camouflage the whole world. The fog must go to get the "3D" view back. 1.2.6

Same problem here! And as we all can see at the pictures of the OP, why is ED using this extreme haze over all the map? The trees have the right coulor, the ground textures looking strange/bad. 1.5 1.2.6

And before 1.5 this was the reason for me to use the air brake during landing with the Su27. The spool up time was really bad and the reaction on the throttle work was more like "on and off". But I think these extra "speed" you can hold back with the use of the air brake isn't that bad at all if you need to touch and go. ;)

If I had known how "strange" the FM of the K-4 would be I had never give a cent for this module! For me the FM of the BF109 is the worst of the three (P51, FW, BF). Yes you can out turn and out climb all other WWII Planes, but the flight behavior is like the ride on an electric bull. You never have a good control about this plane. I really "hate" how the K-4 behaves. Nothing I would expect from a real plane. The K-4 flies more like an UFO. The best planes are right now (for me) 1. the P51D and 2. (not far behind) the FW 190 D-9. Both have a real good feeling how a plane should act in the air. Both "fly" in every aspect. They feel right. So if you like the feeling of how a plane flies, I would say go for the FW 190. She is 1000 times better as the K-4. Without all this "magic" behaviors, the K-4 may become the better plane. But right now she is a mess for me. She is one of those „if it flies really shitty it must be right“ planes. Go for the FW190!

My Warthog HOATS works perfect, so I guess the problem isn't the new patch. Did you guys tried a reapair run for the DCS 1.5 Beta files? And very important if you want some help; you have to show what hard- and software you guys work with. How old are your drivers? Which drivers are installed? What OS is installed? E.g. :pilotfly:

Yep.. this is an old story since the PFM of the Su27 is out. The autopilot use all the time the rudders at lower speeds as 560 Km/h IAS, without any need. Why? I don't know. Would be nice if we could use the autopliot like in any other plane. :cry:

Well.. this special part gave me a raised eyebrow too. ;) But on the other hand an ABS for fighter Jets isn't a new thing and to brake only by pressing a knob isn't new too. I can't believe that a Russian fighter jet, built to land in (more or less) urban terrain on short tracks, should have a brake that the pilot must manage with only one knob to not blow away the tires. The tires can withstand a 22+ tons landing, but not a hard brake... hmm.. no! The tires must be manual manage to get an ABS effect..... another no! Even in old days there was a way to "automate" a brake in such a way, that the brake would not get to hot. First use the right material and second use a speed/pressure driven brake system. For all known logic... if older planes are using such an automated system and you can hold down the brake button the whole long time until the plane stops, why should the Russians not use such a system for a fighter jet? We all should keep in mind that we are not talking about emergency landings! We are talking about normal landings at which tires blow away for no known reason if the pilot use the brake in such a way they would be used in every plane now and before. Sometimes I have the feeling the Su27 was built to kill Pilots as fast as possible (S-Key and brake system). Very strange if you ask me! ;)

So the point seems to be that we have a trim function which is made for FFB only? It would be nice if we could "simulate" the same behavior for non FFB user too, wouldn't it? ;) The center of my not FFB flight stick is always at the same point, neverless how much I have trimmed the DCS Su27 and this will give us a completely wrong feeling of a trimmed plane at different speeds. The gamer stick input will always be wrong if he starts to trim the plane for different speeds if he isn't using a FFB flight stick. ED should try to give us a solution to no loosing the center of control if we are using the trim function. I don't know if this would work, but how would it be to use something like the KA50 trim function to "simulate" a real FFB flight stick for non FFB stick gamer? :dunno:

The Su27 has an automated brake system, which makes it possible that the Su27 only need 1650 ft with a normal landing weight to stop and this without a parachute. Never was there a notice that a Pilot must use the brakes like in an old car without ABS and that seems to be the problem for the DCS Su27. There is no automatism built in and so we need to use a manual Pilot "ABS" to not blow away the wheels. The parachute is for short traks and bad weather conditions! We should hold the whole long time the brake button after the touch down and the wheels should never blown away! http://aviationweek.com/site-files/a...0of%202%29.pdf

I would really like to hear the explanation for this behavior. It doesn't feel right for any logic! Such a high lift so you really don't need any flaps but at the same time you got a trim movement which is even higher as for a Boing 747. Perhaps the physics are right but then the "stick simulation" is not right. As I've said, ED should give this behavior a deeper look. That's exact how I feel it. I don't know exactly where it comes from, but if feels wrong as hell. Fly the Mig15 or any other fast mover with trim, after that the Su27 and you can clearly see/feel there is a extreme difference for lift and trim and not in a good way for the more modern fighter! ;-) Why is the Su27 build in such a way that they want to perform loops by itself and produce too many lift at low speed so she must stall because you can't fine control the AoA anymore...?

The shadows only make the problem more visible; because each tree has a shadow and shadows will cost performance. Without shadows the performance hit isn't that hard anymore but it's still there and still huge! You can set the shadows to zero and the problem still occurs! So I think this is not a shadow problem, it's a trees problem!

The Su27/P and S (we can fly in this game) has only the N001 RADAR. http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html

Same here. I call this the rubber band behavior. In the direction you pull the stick you’ll get an aggressive stick behavior at a special point and at the other direction you will get a sloppy feeling... the plane drops down without no feeling for this behavior and for me with no logical reason why a small release of the stick let the nose drop down. I know this is because of how the game translates the stick input of the player, but it gives me a total wrong feeling of the behavior of any Plane in DCS right now. My problem is more the way the control feeling is simulated and not so the physic models itself. Most of us will not use a FFB flight stick and so the steering of the plane feels wrong because of the actually “very simple” translation of the player stick position too the in game stick position. For us the stick center is always at the same point but in RL this will change with every trim input and this should get a deeper view. ED should “simulate” this behavior too. The controls should get another system so the "player pilot" will get a better response and the player flight stick center position is always the position of a trimmed in game flight stick (like we have in the KA50 module.. press a button for trim and release it and at this release point all new stick inputs will sart at a new "virtual center point…. perhaps in such a way?). Would be nice if ED would take a deeper look at this behavior! :thumbup:

I think the problem is how the brakes are working for the DCS Su27! It seems so that they are working instant all the time. We press the button and the brakes grab as hard as they can. That is not how it should work. We need a time in which the power of the brakes come in and grab more with each second we hold the brake button. I beleive this is the way the RL system is working for the Su27. If not.. stupid engineering I guess! ;)

Is there a way to ask something and you are not insult the one who ask something that you obviously don't like? If you think I am an idiot please ignore me, but please don't insult people only because you think their knowledge is not good enough to discuss with you! But anyway! Thanks for this single answer! So If I understand it the right way, then you say there are two trim methods for each FM? The normal flight mode gives us a trim with “something” and if we hit the “S” -button we get a more sensitive trim control with “only” the elevator? During each trim, during normal flight mode, the elevator start moving and after the level position is reached the elevator returns to the center position. Isn’t this a little bit strange/not good if the elevator “helps” or “overreacts” to reach a stable position and after the trim is made he “swings” back which must give the plane another short pitch change? How does this technic work? The elevator moves back to the center position after the trim. How can the plane hold the right position/the level flight? As I can see if I hit the S key only one thing happens; the sensitivity of the stick inputs will increase overall and because of this you must set the trim setting to the neutral position before you hit the S-key, because with less stick move I'll get much more elevator reaction. How the trimming overall works is the same way as before! And this is something that I would never do if I would give a Pilot the ability to override the agility of his plane! I would give him only more agility (after pressing the “S” –key) if he would push or pull the stick over a special point of degrees. This would be easy to make even only with a hardware system and this would save the pilots lives! The pilot could hit the “S”-key in any Situation without kill himself and because this would be easy to make with hydraulic hardware. Why the Russians engineers have built such a “killer system” I will never understand! Another thing I have noticed during the flight tests is that the elevator is moving by himself like a pendulum during moving on ground. Every bump gives the elevator an up and down, even if I pull the elevator full up or push him full down. I’ve watched some RL vids and couldn’t see any of those behaviors at those RL Su27s. Could this be a reason for those “big steps/swings” for the trimming behavior of the DCS Su27? Or is this only at ground? What is the reason for this behavior at ground until the plane is in the air? As I can see if I use the trim on ground the elevator change the AoA “extreme” and in the air the elevator returns again to the center position. Shouldn’t the elevator be stable if the Pilot pushes or pulls the stick even during the start? Another thing is, if I pull the stick and hold this position the elevator kicks short in and then the elevator returns to the center position with a short “swing”. Is this the RL behavior? Shouldn’t the elevator hold the position until the stick will be pushed forward? As I have said I would really like to have the whole picture, but right now most of the answers are only pieces of other discussions/a big puzzle and its really hard to put all this pieces together without a helping hand. Could make more discussion much nicer if people only have to read one single explanation without to puzzle it together alone. And because of this many discussion could be really good without me idiot asking stupid (?) questions! Perhaps we could make a section like “Questions for runaways” in which we “idiots” can ask something without to insult the pros? Would be nice to ask something without getting a kick in the nuts all the time!

This may be right, but that's not really the point as I can see if I take a look at the start posting. It's more about the different behaviors for the trim and why is one of them extreme good and smooth and the other one bad/not so smooth. If one is much better, why not use this one for all "Flight Modes"? I myself want to understand the reason for this behavior. And in which way those "trim tabs" working and if they allow a smoother/better trim, why we can't use them the whole flight. Till today there was no good explanation about those differences... or I can't find them. I would really like to take a deeper look at this point! :thumbup:

I need a closer explanation for this! Please can you show me those "trim tabs" at the Su27 please. I never heard about those things at the Su27. And if they are there, what is the logical reason to make the "S"hutt down of the ACS to a "Pilot Kill Switch" because the plane will behave completely different after a change of the "Flight Mode"? I only talk from me as if I would design such a mode... all I would do, would be to make it as secure as it could be for a SUPER expensive Pilot if he really need this "Kill Switch". And why is the trim so different if they could make it equal with no problem (the real Su27 engineers). Why do they give a pilot an extreme complicated system if it would cost no money to build it in such a way so it could act the same way for any Flight Mode? And who is this Su27 Pilot who has said that the real DCS SU27 behaves in this situation like the real one? Never read this interview/posting!? I cannot believe that the Russians have built in "Pilot Kill Button" in their planes. And if a plane would really react like the DCS one does, I would take this button away of all Su27 if I were a Russian engineer. I need much more information for this, and especially of those "trim tabs"! How do they work and why do I need another/worse trim if the other one works much better/smoother? Only to say “a real Su27 Pilot said so” seems not to be enough, does it?

Wow.. thank you so much! :thumbup:

The BF109 is for me the plane that is by far not near the behavior I can see in RL vids. And this auto stick pull behavior is the worst thing for me. I will never understand why we must simulate how a flight stick would be act in a simulated world. That would be like we RC plane drivers would use a simulation for our radios to fly our planes. Would be a total stupid thing for us! Our flight sticks are like the sticks on my radio controller, so why should I try to simulate a simulated input within a simulation? If you like it, it's ok, but to force the sim pilots to use this is a little bit strange for me. I don't like it and for me it's the thing for most problems I have with the DCS planes! But I am thankful for all his work.. that’s for sure.. even I don't like every point of his work!

Hmm... not bad... but fare away from a good looking Cuban 8! The extreme rolling and shacking at low speed we've seen in your vid I couldn't see in any RL BF109 vid. And the extreme loss of speed and the extreme need of time to gain this speed on the other side look for me very strange. We have a plane trimmed down and "falling" down with an extreme good powered engine but in your vid (looking very similar to mine) you need an extreme long time to pull the next loop, because you can’t pull the loop until you reach again a 50° - 45° dive. You must open your pull very soon after you have passed the return point and your “loop” becomes a flat one. The problem with the DCS is you can't even fly a round loop with a starting speed of 600 kph. As soon as you pull the stick the plane start to loop and at a point you have no fine control anymore about the speed with how hard you pull the stick. You will lose extreme much energy. If you try to manage your speed with the throttle, the BF 109 start to roll and you will lose more speed because you must now use the ruder much more and the ruder is now like a brake. If you try to control your speed or how wide the loop should be with the stick, the new feature of “auto pulling” ruins all the fine control a real pilot would have and could use (I wish I could disable this “feature”). Only 0.5 millimeter of stick way can ruin all your good work. I don't know why the BF109 must loop by itself and why is there this "auto steering/dampening" or whatever this is called but that thing take away my direct control of the plane. Why does the plane starts shaking at high speed in flight direction if I pull the stick and the plane loses fast the speed and if I have lost “enough” speed it tries to roll the whole time in such a way that I must use the ruder in a way that the ruder becomes a brake? Is there really no momentum to push the plane forward and are there no air drag at the wings and no lift force to stabilize the plane? Sometimes it feels as that there are no wings or I am flying in a vacuum with no air drag. Where are all this forces gone? And for what again are those front flaps good if the plane becomes a bitch a 300 kph, a speed miles away from the stall speed? As I've said. I only fly RC single motor planes, but the physic is by 100% the same, so why do they are not behave like the DCS BF109? A Cuban 8 should start with a 45° - 40° dive in a loop. You should roll in this loop. This roll is now your cross point for the next roll after a loop! You will pull this loop until you are again head over at 45° - 40°, and dive to the height/point you did start the first loop, now roll 180° and start the next loop the same way until you dive again head over at 45° to 40° to the point you did the 180° roll (cross point), here you roll again 180° .. that was it. The important part is, that the dive should be around 45° - 40° and the dive after the loop again. And that’s the point where the DCS BF109 lacks! The bird is losing energy like hell but it could be enough to fly the loop to the end, but now the shaking and rolling of the bird starts and at this point the DCS pilot must open the loop too early and the loop will look like a hand written "L" on the side. That is the problem in this vid and for me too each time I try a Cuban 8. If I try to fly a good looking Cuban 8 it ends all the time with a rolling and shaking plane and I don't know why I can fly with ease loops with RC planes, even if I fly only with 10% of the power I could use. You know... if I fly my planes on the back in a loop they are “flying”! In DCS the 109 start to drop out of the sky as soon as she has passed the top point of the loop, because no power anymore.. no force… no flying. Suddenly she behaves like in an air free room. And you too as I could see in this vid! There is no good/plausible flight behavior because the plane wants the whole time doing a loop by itself. And I don't know why!? Because as soon as I pull the stick even a micrometer this strange stick auto-/self-pull feature comes in? What does it try to "simulate"? I don't know what it is, but for me it doesn't feel and look like any near like I can see at RL planes or at my RC planes and that is extreme strange because physic should be physic, shouldn’t it!?

Guys! It's enough! Please don't highjack this thread anymore! Your "problem" has nothing to do with this discussion! We are talking about a massive lost of FPS around trees and you about stuttering at even high FPS without any tree. Even my blind old grandpa had seen that this are total different problems and as I can see is this a nV problem/fix. So please don't violate this thread and the forum rules anymore and make your own thread for your special problem and the fix! Thanks! :thumbup:

Nice to hear that the nV users have the same (not that you've got the same problem), so this can give this story a new direction! It seems so, that this is a prob with the 3D renderer. Some things are now not "made for the GPU" and so the CPU must do all the work. :thumbup: