Still not used to differential brakes...

[cichlidfan]

I must be doing something wrong - I have CH Pro pedals, and every time I map the left and right wheel brakes, when I spawn in my brakes are on by default. So to move, I have to actually hold both of them down!! its like its reversed or something, and I can't figure out where in the mappings to normalise it.

 

Any suggestions?

 

You need to invert the brake axis. Select your brake axis and click the 'Axis Tune' button. Enable the 'Invert Axis' checkbox.

[The_Pharoah]

ah ok - is that in the options/controls area somewhere? (sorry, am at work atm - will look at this when I get home). I tried looking for this in the axis mapping area of controls but couldn't find it.

[cichlidfan]

ah ok - is that in the options/controls area somewhere? (sorry, am at work atm - will look at this when I get home). I tried looking for this in the axis mapping area of controls but couldn't find it.

 

The button is along the bottom over toward the right. Reference pages 27-29 in the DCS User Guide.

[The_Pharoah]

ok thanks mate

[Dejjvid]

I have no clue what some of you are doing while flying.. :P

 

Brakes during takeoff run? Only used for aborting a takeoff.

You use the throttle to keep your position as a wingman. And if the lead have any skills at all he will not use 100% for the takeoff.

 

Brakes during landing. You can apply 100% brakes just after touchdown, anti skid will make sure your tire doesn't get flat and/or explode. But anti-skid won't keep your brakes temperature safe, therefore you use your huge air brakes to slow down, often you don't even need to brake at all, but if you do, brake at 60kn. Use NWS to control the aircraft. Using differential braking only do one thing, increasing your workload.

[ricktoberfest]

I have no clue what some of you are doing while flying.. :P

 

 

 

Brakes during takeoff run? Only used for aborting a takeoff.

 

You use the throttle to keep your position as a wingman. And if the lead have any skills at all he will not use 100% for the takeoff.

 

 

 

Brakes during landing. You can apply 100% brakes just after touchdown, anti skid will make sure your tire doesn't get flat and/or explode. But anti-skid won't keep your brakes temperature safe, therefore you use your huge air brakes to slow down, often you don't even need to brake at all, but if you do, brake at 60kn. Use NWS to control the aircraft. Using differential braking only do one thing, increasing your workload.

 

 

+1

 

If the runway is long enough you use most if it with just airbrakes/spoilers. The only time most aircraft brake on landing is if it's a STOL landing. It's why many military aircraft still have drogue chutes.

[ZaltysZ]

This is really troublesome when landing because I can never track the center line of the runway when braking, and on lineup for takeoff I have to stare out the front of the aircraft to make sure I remain lined up when getting into position

 

Do not use your wheel brakes for steering. They are not normally intended for that.

 

Line up for take off, begin the roll with nose wheel steering on, correct direction if necessary. This should be sufficient initially. Turn off nose wheel steering when you pick some speed and continue steering with stick. Wing, which has aileron up, will put more pressure on its wheel and will cause it to slow down a bit without you touching the brakes. This should be enough for keeping you aligned until you get into the air.

 

Make sure you don't land into the middle of the runway. Try landing at the start of runway. Having such great aid as Total Velocity Vector (TVV) on the HUD makes this very easy. Touch the runway and just roll. Don't touch the brakes. Use stick (ailerons) to steer. Aircraft will bleed lots of speed by itself, and you will have only to switch to nose wheel steering and use some brakes just before the turn into taxiway.

Edited February 13, 2014 by ZaltysZ

[PFunk1606688187]

Brakes during takeoff run? Only used for aborting a takeoff.

You use the throttle to keep your position as a wingman. And if the lead have any skills at all he will not use 100% for the takeoff.

Throttle is ineffective for cutting off an overtake in formation takeoff owing to the delay in turbofan response. A quick tap of the brakes is far less workload if you're overtaking lead while still on the ground.

 

Brakes during landing. You can apply 100% brakes just after touchdown, anti skid will make sure your tire doesn't get flat and/or explode. But anti-skid won't keep your brakes temperature safe...

Anti-skid in this game is kind of a joke. It doesn't do anything because tires don't explode, unless of course you land absolutely perfectly at certain airfields. :doh: I'm not even sure it works properly. Skidding also for some reason slows you down faster even though it shouldn't, so overall the entire physics of ground handling in DCS is totally borked beyond reason.

[Dejjvid]

Throttle is ineffective for cutting off an overtake in formation takeoff owing to the delay in turbofan response. A quick tap of the brakes is far less workload if you're overtaking lead while still on the ground.

 

I disagree, adjusting your position during the takeoff run with brakes is a sign that you are a bad pilot and have misjudged your own speed in relation to lead. I've done hundred and hundred takeoffs as wingman, i've never been close to thinking about using the brakes..

 

Anti-skid in this game is kind of a joke. It doesn't do anything because tires don't explode, unless of course you land absolutely perfectly at certain airfields. :doh: I'm not even sure it works properly. Skidding also for some reason slows you down faster even though it shouldn't, so overall the entire physics of ground handling in DCS is totally borked beyond reason.

 

Anti skid works fine, if you look in exterior view you clearly see the tires only lock up for a brief moment before it release brake pressure. Do a landing with anti skid off on a wet surface and use 100% brakes, then tell me it better with AS off.

 

Brake efficiency is another matter, and have been discussed earlier..

[PFunk1606688187]

I disagree, adjusting your position during the takeoff run with brakes is a sign that you are a bad pilot and have misjudged your own speed in relation to lead. I've done hundred and hundred takeoffs as wingman, i've never been close to thinking about using the brakes..

LOL bad pilot indeed. You're discussing not needing to do something because you're good enough to not be faced with the problem rather than having to actually formulate a rational response to something you may in fact face because you aren't such a badass that you'd never sink so low as to be a bad pilot.

 

News flash sparky, most people in simming are generally crummy pilots, if not in single ship then in formation flying because most people don't practice it by the book or regularly.

 

I'm glad you're a superior pilot and never make those mistakes. The rest of us might, so its worth discussing.

[Nealius]

I disagree, adjusting your position during the takeoff run with brakes is a sign that you are a bad pilot and have misjudged your own speed in relation to lead. I've done hundred and hundred takeoffs as wingman, i've never been close to thinking about using the brakes..

 

It's not possible to misjudge lead's speed during a formation takeoff--you're both running balls-to-the-wall, there's no further you can push the throttle to overtake him. You're also accelerating, there's no speed to judge anyway. The only three ways you would end up overtaking lead on the takeoff roll are 1) you had bad timing and released brakes before he did, 2) you advanced your throttle faster than he did, 3) you have a lighter jet than he does.

 

1) isn't likely to happen because lead will signal brake release and human reaction time almost ensures a slight delay. 2) can happen because the wingman doesn't know how smoothly lead is adding power. 3) would be the fault of lead since its his responsibility to pick weapons config.

[Eddie]

I disagree, adjusting your position during the takeoff run with brakes is a sign that you are a bad pilot and have misjudged your own speed in relation to lead. I've done hundred and hundred takeoffs as wingman, i've never been close to thinking about using the brakes..

 

Well that's nice for you. However, the real world TTPs are exactly as PFunk has described.

[Eddie]

It's not possible to misjudge lead's speed during a formation takeoff--you're both running balls-to-the-wall, there's no further you can push the throttle to overtake him. You're also accelerating, there's no speed to judge anyway. The only three ways you would end up overtaking lead on the takeoff roll are 1) you had bad timing and released brakes before he did, 2) you advanced your throttle faster than he did, 3) you have a lighter jet than he does.

 

1) isn't likely to happen because lead will signal brake release and human reaction time almost ensures a slight delay. 2) can happen because the wingman doesn't know how smoothly lead is adding power. 3) would be the fault of lead since its his responsibility to pick weapons config.

 

Sorry, but that is utter rubbish.

[SkateZilla]

Well, I Guess I'm a bad pilot, cuz I sometimes use light toe brakes to keep the plane on the centerline instead of using NoseWheel Steering (when Im below 70knots, 70knots+ I turn off NWS and use rudders)

[ricktoberfest]

If your lead is doing it right- they shouldn't be "balls to the wall" ever in formation! Even takeoff should be at 90-95% thrust to allow for corrections. And the wingman only has to adjust by a percent or two which takes less than a second for the turbofan to react either way.

[Nealius]

Sorry, but that is utter rubbish.

 

Then please enlighten us. No point in telling people they're wrong if you're unwilling to share what's correct, unless you just take pleasure in telling people "you're wrong!"

 

If your lead is doing it right- they shouldn't be "balls to the wall" ever in formation! Even takeoff should be at 90-95% thrust to allow for corrections. And the wingman only has to adjust by a percent or two which takes less than a second for the turbofan to react either way.

 

Still the same regardless. If you have two aircraft with the same weight and same drag, running engines at the same percentage and releasing brakes at the same time, they will be accelerating at the same time and reaching the same max speed for that percentage. It's physically impossible for the wingman to overtake lead in this scenario.

 

Just as an aside, the AFI11-2A-10CV3 says to run core RPM to 90% and smoothly add power after releasing brakes. Later it says that if the wingman overtakes lead* the wingman will assume lead by going MAX power. For me in DCS there is maybe 1cm of throttle movement between 90% core RPM and MAX, and the AFI11-2A-10CV3 doesn't say to what power setting throttle is advanced. So in my experience adding more power than 90% is an automatic MAX, just because there is practically no throttle movement between 90% and MAX for me.

 

*The AFI11-2A-10CV3 also says that formation takeoffs shall only be done if both aircraft do not exceed a 2,000lb weight difference. A weight difference is the only way I can see the wingman possibly overtaking lead. It's common-sense physics.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Nealius

[ricktoberfest]

The lead is at 90% so the wingman can go higher than 90 to catchup if he needs.

[Nealius]

Makes logical sense, but doesn't match what the AFI11-2A-10CV3 says. It says to run engines up to 90%, release brakes, smoothly add power. If you add power you're not at 90% any more...

[Eddie]

Then please enlighten us. No point in telling people they're wrong if you're unwilling to share what's correct, unless you just take pleasure in telling people "you're wrong!".

 

Why on earth should I repeat things that have already been said and explained by others in this very thread? It's all here already, you're just either choosing to ignore the points that have been presented or failing to understand them.

 

You're just not appreciating the facts and elements at play here. The overtake being referred to isn't fifty knots, it's one or two knots. And being just a fraction of a second slower or faster on the throttles, or having a couple of hundred pounds of weight difference will produce that.

 

Lead should be at just one or two percent less than max during a formation takeoff.

[Snoopy]

If you have two aircraft with the same weight and same drag, running engines at the same percentage and releasing brakes at the same time, they will be accelerating at the same time and reaching the same max speed for that percentage. It's physically impossible for the wingman to overtake lead in this scenario.

 

No because each engine at a certain % does not produce the exact same thrust. We have limits we have to go by when trimming and ops checking an engine but nothing is every 100% the same.

 

It's why many military aircraft still have drogue chutes.

 

Not in the USAF

[wolfstriked]

Back into DCS again and the brakes on the A10c are bugging me again also.:joystick: Its a canned braking effect as you can just slightly touch the brakes and the plane will still skid around causing you to dance on the rudders.I can understand that this would happen on slippery runways but that is not modeled.

 

Try coming to a complete stop and then proceed to taxi and use the brakes and you will notice the plane doesnt squirm all over the place but rather noses down when brakes are applied and brakes straight ahead.When they model real slippage depending on runway conditions then the harsh braking will be an excellent addition IMO and warrant the anti-skid button.For now though I would love it if they removed the canned slide when braking and just give us the normal brake effect.

 

Gotta add that they did remove my other pet peeve of DCS A10c and that was the way the view would sway side to side when you would bank.It irked me to no end and when I first reinstalled A10c I noticed it was gone as default with the option to bring it back...."head movement by G-forces in cockpit".:DThanks ED......:thumbup::thumbup:

[Nealius]

Why on earth should I repeat things that have already been said and explained by others in this very thread? It's all here already, you're just either choosing to ignore the points that have been presented or failing to understand them.

 

Because they haven't been explained! Your reply shows that you haven't read anything before page 4, or more specifically Post #32. Remember my Post #38? Yeah. No one has said a damn thing that explains those points in this thread (or why they were wrong) prior to your snarky remark. Maybe if I had access to those TTPs/other privileged info you guys have I wouldn't even have to bother you with my obviously inferior intelligence [/sarcasm].

 

At least paulrkii gave an explanation instead of mounting his high steed, which I do appreciate. It's comments with a condescending attitude like yours I don't appreciate.

 

Remember what P*Funk said?

 

News flash sparky, most people in simming are generally crummy pilots, if not in single ship then in formation flying because most people don't practice it by the book or regularly.

 

Exactly. The only "book" I've got for an idea of formation takeoff procedures is the AFI A-10C SOP, and that doesn't say anything about takeoff power beyond running engines up to 90% and "smoothly adding power." How the hell am I supposed to know lead only adds power to one or two percent less than max? No one said anything about it until you finally did. The only other common knowledge I have is formation takeoff SOP for F-16, which--last I was told--was MIL, which is max without afterburner.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Nealius

[ENO]

Holy crap dude- turn it down a little.

[Yurgon]

And here I was going to quote Eno's awesome signature... I'll do it anyways, because there's so much truth in it. :D

 

Type in anger and you will make the greatest post you will ever regret.

[Nealius]

Holy crap dude- turn it down a little.

 

I apologize. I just don't appreciate being berated and talked-down to for not having the knowledge that's found in the AFTTP 3-3.A-10; which we civilians do not appear to have access too. It's totally unreasonable.