dev update 30

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts/770277#comments

 

good update, but still the interaction is missing.

 

interesting is, for me at least, that they are having troubles with the P47 model...i would have thought, that having real p47s as a source, should eliminate such problems as creating the 3d model of the plane...just surprising for me, but i have no clue about it.

 

best thing in this update for me personally is, that he confirmed that the afn2 gauge is working.

i really hoped that this would be the case.will make blind landings a really challenging part of the sim, apart from combat.yeah!!!

EDIT: given that you actually managed to get the Me 109 up in the air in the first place...cant wait for that to try

Edited March 8, 2014 by 9./JG27 DavidRed

[SimHog]

Meh ... still no mention of the matrix and physical items promised during kick starter, its a month overdue.

[Grim_Smiles]

Mixed feelings on this update, though glad to at least see another one. When he started talking about the site for the rewards I thought for a moment that some of the complaints had gotten through. As I read on it was pretty clear they hadn't. Still no mention of some of the other issues, guess we'll see on the next update.

 

I'm glad he didn't withhold screenshots again. I don't care if they aren't perfect, I'd like to see what progress you have regardless of the lack of polish. Just because some people can't understand the concept of WIP doesn't mean all of us have that problem. Big plus is learning that the 109 is coming along nicely at least and that they are treating it as a flagship aircraft. Being my favorite aircraft of the war, I'm hoping that means I can expect something great.

[SlipBall]

thanks for the update...llya I would love to see a few terrain shots!

Edited March 8, 2014 by GT 5.0

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

oh yeah, terrain shots would be great...but on the other hand, i assume that not much, if at all has changed since the last terrain shots considering luthiers last comment about the terrain...

[SlipBall]

From reading the Almazi post's I was under the impression that the terrain work has been completed...but that is only my impression :D

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

;) lets hope your impression is wrong in this case

Edited March 8, 2014 by 9./JG27 DavidRed

[joey45]

Pretty good update I think..

[rootango]

nice update, good to see work is continuing !

 

also looking forward to some scenery screenshots showing the new EDGE terrain/scenery/maps with ww2 era aircraft flying in it

 

it could be that some parts of demonstrating this early EDGE scenery in progress is still restricted by the DCS bosses :)

 

keep up the hard work luthier, you have all our support and appreciation :thumbup:

[mhe]

Of course the progress is not as quick as some people would like, nevertheless they are making progress and keep us informed of it. Large projects like this can be frustrating, especially so if there are a lot of factors at play that you only have limited or even no influence over (like EDGE progress perhaps).

 

If people want their stuff on time and no delays, crowdfunding might not be for them. It is the same old game. If you say nothing, people complain about the lack of info or interaction. If you say something, people complain because you said something different that they wanted to hear. It is simply impossible to please everyone, so why blame a guy for not attempting the impossible?

 

Of course there were some mistakes made like the surrealistically optimistic timescales, but I doubt there is a way Ilya could make up for it so that the whining stops. Not to offend anyone, but bitching and whining seems like an integral part of the simmer community to me - a and I've been flying virtually for over 20 years now. Funny how some things change and progress over the years and other things stay the same.

 

Very much looking forward to the Beta!

[gavagai]

 

Of course there were some mistakes made like the surrealistically optimistic timescales, but I doubt there is a way Ilya could make up for it so that the whining stops. Not to offend anyone, but bitching and whining seems like an integral part of the simmer community to me - a and I've been flying virtually for over 20 years now. Funny how some things change and progress over the years and other things stay the same.

 

I have also enjoyed flight sims for over 20 years. Another thing that hasn't changed are the pollyannas. They seem to always put the "whining" label on attempts to point out legitimate problems.

 

When the paypal backers have their DCS World P-51 keys...

When the $1000 backers have their skype chats...

 

...then you might have a point. But not now.

[cichlidfan]

From reading the Almazi post's I was under the impression that the terrain work has been completed...but that is only my impression :D

 

All he said was that his work was done.

 

You also thought, incorrectly, that he was in Kiev.

Edited March 8, 2014 by cichlidfan

[mhe]

I have also enjoyed flight sims for over 20 years. Another thing that hasn't changed are the pollyannas. They seem to always put the "whining" label on attempts to point out legitimate problems.

 

When the paypal backers have their DCS World P-51 keys...

When the $1000 backers have their skype chats...

 

...then you might have a point. But not now.

 

I don't say that SOME of the problems pointed out so far are not legitimate, of course they are. The point I was trying to make is that no matter what a developer does, there will be always someone who gets pissed of for some reason to the extent of throwing tantrums, which nobody benefits from.

 

I have had my P-51 key for a long time now - not that it matters, I had the aircraft for much longer and simply gifted the additional key to a friend - and the Skype thing doesn't affect me.

 

But yes, they made some promises they didn't make good on as of yet. But I assume this is not intentional. The problem is they are behind schedule and they have a lot on their plates now with demands coming from several directions simultaneously. Once you are behind schedule, you only can do so much.

 

It is perfectly understandable that people are disappointed, but the anger or demands directed at RRG at the moment do nothing to remedy the situation. A more constructive way would be to offer help as much as we can - regardless of the "paying customer" dogma. If I want my stuff quicker, then it is best to let the guy responsible for delivery do the work and perhaps sometimes ask for status reports (which we get, but not at intervals on par with everybody's expectations I guess), but flooding him with inquiries just because I am impatient does not help me get things quicker. One may feel entitled to something or don't, but the feeling of entitlement does little to change reality.

 

tl;dr: The shit has already hit the fan, let's try and clean up the mess instead of making even more of it.

[Merlin-27]

mhe, I think there has been quite a bit of support from the community including the "help"

you suggested. Much assistance has been offered. I haven't heard much criticism of delays or progress. It has been specifically focused on communication and expectations set and not delivered over and over. That along with efforts to build excitement within the community that just fade away into nothing. Of course, we love to see progress and the status of the overall project is most important but some of us are used to a professional customer facing presence...and that is yet to be seen here.

[SkateZilla]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts/770277#comments

 

good update, but still the interaction is missing.

 

interesting is, for me at least, that they are having troubles with the P47 model...i would have thought, that having real p47s as a source, should eliminate such problems as creating the 3d model of the plane...just surprising for me, but i have no clue about it.

 

best thing in this update for me personally is, that he confirmed that the afn2 gauge is working.

i really hoped that this would be the case.will make blind landings a really challenging part of the sim, apart from combat.yeah!!!

EDIT: given that you actually managed to get the Me 109 up in the air in the first place...cant wait for that to try

 

the black shiney model is what my mesh looks like when I assign a Bump Map layer in Max, Export, and the DDS Bump Map File isnt loaded by EDM Viewer or Game.

 

 

My kickstarter history is showing up fine.

Edited March 8, 2014 by SkateZilla

[VIKBELL]

Just keep working it coming along.:book:

[Chivas]

I got the exact opposite impression from Almazi. I thought he was complaining that he wasn't getting any help/info from people incorporating the EDGE graphic engine into DCS so he could carry on his work with DCS WW2 terrain. Its also very highly unlikely anyone could possibly model Normandy in a few months. If a miracle did happen, Luthier would be posting terrain shots in every update.

 

 

Personally I'm quite happy with the development so far, atleast with the aircraft work. However, I'm not so sure much of anything has been done on the terrain yet. I would like to see a comment from Luthier on the progress of the WW2 terrain with the EDGE graphic engine soon. That said, we've had more than enough updates to see that things are moving forward especially this early in the development.

 

 

The website with everyones rewards listed seems to be coming along. I received my P51 key soon after kickstarter ended, hopefully those that haven't will get theirs soon. Although sometimes I wonder if "some" of the those complaining about the aircraft keys, actually funded the project, and are just trolling.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

well, almazi posted, that his work has ended on normandy map.i think he is not longer involved in the project, unfortunately, as he was here quite often/still is, and gave us snippets of information from time to time.

 

regarding the p51 keys, i really do not want to believe that this is the case here.

[Wolf Rider]

I don't say that SOME of the problems pointed out so far are not legitimate, of course they are. The point I was trying to make is that no matter what a developer does, there will be always someone who gets pissed of for some reason to the extent of throwing tantrums, which nobody benefits from.

 

I have had my P-51 key for a long time now - not that it matters, I had the aircraft for much longer and simply gifted the additional key to a friend - and the Skype thing doesn't affect me.

 

But yes, they made some promises they didn't make good on as of yet. But I assume this is not intentional. The problem is they are behind schedule and they have a lot on their plates now with demands coming from several directions simultaneously. Once you are behind schedule, you only can do so much.

 

It is perfectly understandable that people are disappointed, but the anger or demands directed at RRG at the moment do nothing to remedy the situation. A more constructive way would be to offer help as much as we can - regardless of the "paying customer" dogma. If I want my stuff quicker, then it is best to let the guy responsible for delivery do the work and perhaps sometimes ask for status reports (which we get, but not at intervals on par with everybody's expectations I guess), but flooding him with inquiries just because I am impatient does not help me get things quicker. One may feel entitled to something or don't, but the feeling of entitlement does little to change reality.

 

tl;dr: The shit has already hit the fan, let's try and clean up the mess instead of making even more of it.

 

 

 

Giving harassment and making threats over the pm and email systems doesn't help things along much either

[mhe]

Giving harassment and making threats over the pm and email systems doesn't help things along much either

 

Didn't know it went that far. What were people thinking?

 

"You need to be motivated to do great work - so I'm here to demotivate you just because I feel entitled and want my stuff NOW!" :doh:

 

This was exactly what I meant. Giving constructive criticism is one thing, but harassment and threats are simply a shame and I would assume this kind of behaviour is what keeps some developers afraid of being open and direct about things.

 

Actually, the entitlement/harassment crowd is worse at communicating than the developers they blame. The customers have a need they want to see filled and their only known way of asking for it is in a way that makes it highly unlikely that they get what they want. Everybody loses that way.

Edited March 9, 2014 by mhe

[SimHog]

I got the exact opposite impression from Almazi. I thought he was complaining that he wasn't getting any help/info from people incorporating the EDGE graphic engine into DCS so he could carry on his work with DCS WW2 terrain. Its also very highly unlikely anyone could possibly model Normandy in a few months. If a miracle did happen, Luthier would be posting terrain shots in every update.

 

 

Personally I'm quite happy with the development so far, atleast with the aircraft work. However, I'm not so sure much of anything has been done on the terrain yet. I would like to see a comment from Luthier on the progress of the WW2 terrain with the EDGE graphic engine soon. That said, we've had more than enough updates to see that things are moving forward especially this early in the development.

 

 

The website with everyones rewards listed seems to be coming along. I received my P51 key soon after kickstarter ended, hopefully those that haven't will get theirs soon. Although sometimes I wonder if "some" of the those complaining about the aircraft keys, actually funded the project, and are just trolling.

 

Well you can't post on the comment section on a Kickstarter project unless you're a backer, those that say they haven't received their keys I would say are legit. I personally put in $220 and haven't received any email or notification on any of the extra items I pledged on.

[SlipBall]

Well you can't post on the comment section on a Kickstarter project unless you're a backer, those that say they haven't received their keys I would say are legit. I personally put in $220 and haven't received any email or notification on any of the extra items I pledged on.

 

 

I tend to agree that more than a few have slipped through the crack on the rewards thing...again, the importance of communication

[MACADEMIC]

Giving harassment and making threats over the pm and email systems doesn't help things along much either

 

Chivas suspects that people who haven't got their rewards aren't even backers and are just trolling. You're claiming that communication attempts with RRG constitute harassment.

 

What would allow you such unique insights? Are you in direct contact with RRG?

 

RRG has never replied to any of my attempts to reach them, which were always polite. They haven't communicated on their own forum since October. They have certainly never sent me the DCS P51D keys I was counting on to gift to friends for Christmas and birthdays, which was mostly why I backed the Kickstarter with $250.

 

There are plenty of genuine claims from people who supported this project for their own reasons. All have kept their side of the deal, but RRG (so far) hasn't.

 

If you want to make excuses for them, fine, but blaming the backers is taking it too far.

 

MAC

[Wolf Rider]

you need to re-read my post in the context of which it was meant... not in the context of how you want to take it and how you extrapolate that....

[Merlin-27]

The only "entitlement" I am feeling is to exactly what was displayed and agreed on as a "reward" of my pledge level. I hardly think this is asking too much. Hell, how about one email stating things are behind schedule? How about three words from someone at RRG... please be patient? Is there anyone here who backed with more than $200 feeling satisfied with the communication? I'd like to hear from them.

 

$1000 has gotten me nothing but an email from Kickstarter saying they took my money. Well, and the wisdom to never fall for such a thing again.

 

No matter what kind of Kum ba yah you want to sing... results matter.