World War III module?

[CheckGear]

I mentioned this in "The Next DCS (US) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List" thread, but I think this deserves its own dedicated thread. As much as I love the focus on modern warfare, I also think DCS can be utilized to explore historical warfare. We are already seeing it in the P-51 Mustang and WWII: Europe 1944 module.

 

A historical module I would love to see is one that I would title either "United States Air Forces Europe" or WWIII: Europe (insert year). The post-Vietnam era to the end of the Cold War was a crucial time in the history of both air and ground warfare. The USAF re-built itself during this time and it was from 1975 - 1991 that made the Air Force what it is today. More importantly, we can also see a truly authentic and realistic depiction of a NATO vs. Warsaw Pact confrontation.

 

The focus on the USAF in Europe would permit us to pit the fighters of this era - A-10s, F-4s, F-15s, F-16s, F-111s, as well as those of the NATO allies - against the Warsaw Pact MiG-21s, MiG-23s, MiG-25s, and MiG-27s, as well as early models of the MiG-29 and Su-27. Due to the absolute realism and attention to detail of DCS, we can finally see how the air war would have worked itself out had the "balloon gone up."

[Yob]

Yeah i would love this idea, i would love them to introduce Nukes via B-52's and free fall nukes on numerous different fighter types.

[Vampyre]

One of my most hoped for era's of the cold war. NATO vs. Warsaw Pact in central Europe. A true WWIII scenario with a lot of Famous/Classic aircraft available. It would be a real challenge to survive in that environment.

[Rongor]

As long as Nukes stay out of the game...

Also unclear to me what such a module should contain. You would need a bunch of planes, global theater maps and plenty of ground based stuff. Seems to be somewhat too big to picture the topic in one single module...

[Terrorvogel]

+1:thumbup:

[Vampyre]

I'd like to have the option of using every weapon in the inventory be they special weapons or conventional. The truth of the matter is that, if WWIII did break out, Tactical Nuclear Weapons and Chemical Weapons would have been employed on the battlefield and to destroy key supply and communication hubs. I feel they would be a requirement for a cold war gone hot scenario. Just because they are available in game doesn't mean they have to be used on every flight... that is for the mission designer to decide. I'd rather have them in game... It would make for an interesting long range interdiction mission for the F-111's.

[VincentLaw]

We are already seeing it in the P-51 Mustang and WWII: Europe 1944 module.

Except WWII: Europe is not a module. It is a separate installation from DCS World. Two is bad enough. I really don't want to have to separately install everything three times (extrapolate to N times) on my computer and run different .exe files to play any module on different maps.

 

What I would support is a date/category tag system applied to everything, so that when you create or select a mission, you can filter missions by date. Then when you run DCS: 1975, you get the 1975 interface with 1975 filters set by default, but it should still get the module/map data from the same directory.

[Exorcet]

As long as Nukes stay out of the game...

We should have them already, they're weapons these planes can carry.

 

Except WWII: Europe is not a module. It is a separate installation from DCS World. Two is bad enough. I really don't want to have to separately install everything three times (extrapolate to N times) on my computer and run different .exe files to play any module on different maps.

A big problem that could be one of the biggest mistakes in DCSW, it defeats the whole purpose really.

[Steph]

WW 3 ??...really ?

 

So, just one clic on nukes button... and 15mins later = the end. :D

[CheckGear]

What I would support is a date category tag system applied to everything, so that when you create or select a mission, you can filter missions by date. Then when you run DCS: 1975, you get the 1975 interface with 1975 filters set by default, but it should still get the module/map data from the same directory.

 

That is a very good point you bring up. A simulation set in World War III, at best, would have to be an entirely separate release independent of DCS.

 

Another issue that comes up is authenticity. It is much easier to simulate World War II, as it was an era where high technology was not as prevalent as it is now. But from 1975 - 1991, high technology was prevalent, yet it is also quite different from how things are now. Anybody who tackles such a project would have to do an unbelievable amount of research in order to determine precisely what existed and what was in use at the time in order to avoid anachronism.

 

This is precisely why a World War III module/release remains a "wish..."

[Grim_Smiles]

The truth of the matter is that, if WWIII did break out, Tactical Nuclear Weapons and Chemical Weapons would have been employed on the battlefield and to destroy key supply and communication hubs.

 

Indeed, one of the scarier things to do is read some of the war strategies during that time period, seems everything pretty much centered around using nukes. One interesting article that demonstrates this is one going into the backpack nukes the US made for SF use in the event of the Cold War going hot: http://specialoperations.com/28857/sof-backpack-nukes/

 

Thankfully everyone managed to keep their fingers off the buttons back then, let's hope that continues to stay true.

[GeorgeLKMT]

WWIII module already exists, it's called DEFCON, and you can get it on Steam :D

[NineLine]

I dont know if we need a specific WWIII module, but it would be nice if all models and items in game had a service date, and you could limit the map/mission/campaign by a date range...

[outlawal2]

Not sure why a particular module is needed.. Maybe a WWIII SCENARIO, but we can already do that and simply select what equipment you wish to include when creating the missions...

[Blaze]

I dont know if we need a specific WWIII module, but it would be nice if all models and items in game had a service date, and you could limit the map/mission/campaign by a date range...

 

The Strike Fighters series did this and it worked great.

[VincentLaw]

The Strike Fighters series did this and it worked great.

I have not played it in a while, but YS Flight Simulator also has a basic implementation of this so you can filter out the WWII content.

[Scrim]

Well, it should be simple enough to make once the MP cockpit is finished. Just have to guys turn their keys simultaneously, and away goes the ICBM. Then sit around and wait for one to hit yourself.

There's your WW3 sim for you :P

[MBot]

DCS World War III? Ambush tanks in your AH-1F in the Fulda Gap. Fly Harrier GR.3 from a forest clearing in the North German Plain. Penetrate into Poland in a F-111. Intercept bombers over the GIUK Gap in a F-14A. Support an amphibious landing in Norway in a A-7E. Signed :)

[Vampyre]

I dont know if we need a specific WWIII module, but it would be nice if all models and items in game had a service date, and you could limit the map/mission/campaign by a date range...

I'm pretty sure I put this suggestion forth before. Every object in game could have service dates corresponding to a year month timeline that they were actually in service. Of course this feature would have to be selectable by the mission builder. The selection could be called Historical and Sandbox depending on what the mission builder wanted to do.

[Vampyre]

Well, it should be simple enough to make once the MP cockpit is finished. Just have to guys turn their keys simultaneously, and away goes the ICBM. Then sit around and wait for one to hit yourself.

There's your WW3 sim for you :P

Sounds boring for a WWIII module.... I'd prefer flying from RAF Upper Heyford and penetrating enemy air defenses at low level in an F-111E to deliver a pair of B-61 special weapons to targets in Poland or the western part of the USSR. I like the idea of flying as part of an AH-1F/OH-58 team picking off the massive river of tanks and fighting vehicles flowing through the Fulda Gap. Also high on my wish list is the F-4G Wild Weasel V to try to whittle down the most massive and deadly air defense network ever assembled... and maybe see if the F-117A would have been survivable in such a dense air defense environment. That's just the NATO side of things... How about a massive air assault with Mi-24 Hinds and Mi-8's to capture critical infrastructure like bridges and airfields or using Tu-22KD Blinders to attack RAF airfields at long ranges while trying to evade Tornado F3's.

[MBot]

Ground object wise the basics are already pretty well covered for a DCS WWIII, most major ground units for the 1980s are already there (or at least modern variants thereof). With AI aircraft the situation is also not that bad though of course various important aircraft would still be required. Some classic cold war flyable aircraft are also already there or on the way. Some closer, like the MiG-21Bis, some still very, very far away (F-14A, A-7D/E).

 

What would be primary required to move a DCS WWIII environment forward would be new maps and a completely new persistent campaign and LOD system, to provide the right feeling of massive scale and purpose.

 

An all-out conventional (or tactical nuclear) war between NATO and the WP would have been a global affair with actions in theaters all around to world: The primary WP land offensive would of course have come in Central Europe, being supported on the northern flank in Scandinavia and the southern flank in Italy, Greece and Turkey (and possibly the Balkans). Then there were of course the naval theathers with actions expected from the North Atlantic, over the Norwegian Sea to the Barents Sea, the Northwest Pacific, the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean. A NATO-WP war would probably also have included actions with aligned states such as Libya, Syria and Cuba. By the way, an interesting read on the global conventional war is The Martime Strategy, the doctrine layed out by the US Navy in the 1980s.

 

I think the most interesting theaters to look at would be Central Europe (large air-land war), Norway/Norwegian Sea (amphibious operations by both sides, naval war) and the Aleutian Islands (amphibious operations by both sides, naval war).

 

An idea for maps might be to start small and limit the geography (terrain to build), countries/services involved (AI units to create) and mission roles (aircraft systems to model, AI to code). Then this could be expanded slowly. For Central Europe the initial map could be limited to the area of Frankfurt to the inner-german border. This would allow to portray the anti-tank and CAS actions in the Fulda Gap featuring helicopters and the A-10A for the NATO side only. As a next the map would be extended into Eastern Germany to add WP bases and open the scenario for eastern CAS, air-air actions and the OCA campaign. The map could then be expanded south into bavaria to flesh out CENTAG and north to include NORTHAG and the RAF with all it's aircraft. Next steps would be expanding the map west in steps to include the bases and air forces in Belgium, the Netherlands, and France. Northwest to add the UK, north to add Denmark, east to add Poland and southeast to add CZ. One after the other, the terrain, aircraft and units could be added around the central location of the relatively small Fulda Gap area.

 

 

But of course I know that this is all just a pipe dream :) I doubt such maps will come and I am certain that ED will never do a dynamic campaign...

[NineLine]

I'm pretty sure I put this suggestion forth before. Every object in game could have service dates corresponding to a year month timeline that they were actually in service. Of course this feature would have to be selectable by the mission builder. The selection could be called Historical and Sandbox depending on what the mission builder wanted to do.

 

 

Yeah, I certainly dont claim the idea as my own, but I think its a great idea, and have heard a number of people suggest it.

[CheckGear]

Sounds boring for a WWIII module.... I'd prefer flying from RAF Upper Heyford and penetrating enemy air defenses at low level in an F-111E to deliver a pair of B-61 special weapons to targets in Poland or the western part of the USSR. I like the idea of flying as part of an AH-1F/OH-58 team picking off the massive river of tanks and fighting vehicles flowing through the Fulda Gap. Also high on my wish list is the F-4G Wild Weasel V to try to whittle down the most massive and deadly air defense network ever assembled... and maybe see if the F-117A would have been survivable in such a dense air defense environment. That's just the NATO side of things... How about a massive air assault with Mi-24 Hinds and Mi-8's to capture critical infrastructure like bridges and airfields or using Tu-22KD Blinders to attack RAF airfields at long ranges while trying to evade Tornado F3's.

 

NOW THAT"S THE SPIRIT!!! :cheer3nc:

 

As for me, I would look forward to being scrambled from Zulu Alert in my F-15C from Bitburg Air Base to intercept bogeys entering West German airspace.

[Vampyre]

Yeah, I certainly dont claim the idea as my own, but I think its a great idea, and have heard a number of people suggest it.

 

To be honest it is not really an original idea by me either, it's kind of a conglomeration of ideas on my part. It would make a great deal of sense to incorporate a feature such as this to minimize the installs required to fly in different era's.

[blackbelter]

"The most detailed and realistic simulations of machines used in a fictitious war".