Commonality with the PFM?

[Stratos]

Seen in the Q&A that Fishbed and Flogger have like 60/70% commonality. My question is, what is the commonality between the Bis we're getting the PFM variant.

 

Thanks.

[LegoHeli]

The MiG-21 is in a PFM both in flight model (handling) and systems modelling (avionics and electronics and hydraulics, etc).

 

The MiG-23 has very similar systems to the MiG-21, and that is the reason for the high similarity percentage-wise. In regards to flying charachteristics, the planes are far from the same.

[Dr_Arrow]

I think that Mig-21 Bis would probably closest in terms of avionics/systems to the Mig-21MF version.

[lmp]

The MiG-21 is in a PFM both in flight model (handling) and systems modelling (avionics and electronics and hydraulics, etc).

 

Or rather, the MiG-21 has PFM-level EFM and ASM. There's no such thing as "PFM in systems modelling".

 

The MiG-23MS has a similar sensor suite and weapons capabilities to the bis. The more advanced (and interesting) versions - such as the MF, ML or MLD - have a completely new radar, different radar guided missiles, EOS, HUD etc. On all versions, much of the other systems and instruments will be similar to the ones in the bis.

 

The flight model will be completely different however and in particular swing wings are something no previous DCS aircraft did.

[Silver_Dragon]

The old "plans" was a Mig-23ML

[Cobra847]

As already mentioned, the commonality lies in avionics and aircraft systems, not the flight modelling.

 

The biggest parts that would need to be built for the MiG-23 (accounting for variations depending on version) are the FM (however, considering we have a framework in place with the MiG-21 that gives us a good base, it's a slightly easier affair than usual), Radar/Weapons, and of course all of the artwork (some things crossover -- some weapons, ejection seat, various avionics, etc).

 

I'd put good money on you seeing a MiG-23 from Leatherneck at some point in the mid-term future. Version TBD.

[YoYo]

MiG-23 will be the perfect choice for the next model!

[phant]

 

I'd put good money on you seeing a MiG-23 from Leatherneck at some point in the mid-term future. Version TBD.

 

Nice. Thanks Cobra.

 

Bye

Phant

[Zakatak]

Hoping for the MLD version for delicious R-73 and R-24 action which should help it stay somewhat relevant in a battlefield full of Hornets and Eagles, though earlier variants would likely be a fair bit easier to design.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Zakatak

[johnv2pt0]

I would much prefer to see a Mig-27 than a 23. I know nothing about systems similarities, but the ground movers are the things that get me excited!

 

Just a datapoint for you LS. Can't wait to fly your 21 ~

[Stratos]

I was asking about commonality with our BIS and the MiG-21 PFM, IIRC main difference will be the FM, with slight differences in avionics, right? So any chance of seeing a PFM from Leatherneck??

[Dudikoff]

The old "plans" was a Mig-23ML

 

IIRC, it was the MF since that's what HuAF operated. ML or MLD would of course be the preferred choice.

[WinterH]

Well, of course I wouldn't know how much commonality they would have from Leatherneck's programing/modeling point of view.

 

But if I would comment on how similar they are, I'd say differences are significant enough, I believe PFM has an older radar, I'm not sure if the difference in their (RP-21 vs RP-22SM) capabilities are really slight. Also, PFM's engine has less thrust than Bis'. It holds less fuel (hump on the spine doesn't extend all the way back in PFM, which would mean somewhat different aerodynamics and may be different CoG placement too). While it may be somewhat lighter, I am not really sure if it would be any more agile, especially with less thrust available. It also doesn't have an internal gun. If you wanted a gun, you'd need to carry it on a pod, adding weight and drag. Also, it had one hardpoint per wing, unlike two for Bis. And those hardpoints can't carry more advanced variants of air to air missiles (no R-60).

 

I'd guess both avionics and flight model would be, different enough to require some things to be made from scratch or significant effort being put on them at least. Of course it would be faster than making another aircraft, but I don't expect it to be only a couple months work either. I believe, avionics wise, MiG-21Bis may have more in common with early MiG-23 variants than with MiG-21PFM.

 

I wonder what's the specific reason for wanting PFM especially? Just out of curiosity :) I certainly hope / want to see many variants of indivudual aircraft in DCS, but PFM seems a bit of an oddball. May be for fitting in to a Vietnam scenario better than Bis?

 

As for the possible MiG-23 in some future, I sure would like it to be MLD, but anything would be cool anyways :P especially so long as it gets updated later on to MLD, sometime :D.

 

In future, I really would like DCS to have more than one variant of a flyable, DCS level aircraft.

 

I, for one, would hope for a MiG-21 Bison, even if it's not very likely to happen, I can dream right? :music_whistling: LanceR would be cool too, dropping LGBs like from an A-10C, only much faster :music_whistling:

 

MiG-21F-13 would be nice too, since it looks cool and is the first variant :D even if it's only comparable to F-86 in current/foreseeble DCS roster :D. May be, if information on them is available Chinese F-7 variants too... they have interesting missiles which are copies of Phtyhon series, and have that double delta wings with improved lift for somewhat better maneuvrability.

[JG-1_Vogel]

I would love you guys at Leatherneck forever if you did the Flogger. It's a sweet looking aircraft and I've always wanted to fly a variable geometry wing aircraft. The Flogger was also one of the first air fix models I made as a lad :). Just wondering, what was the western equal to the Flogger back then? F-4 perhaps?

Edited June 25, 2014 by 159th_LoneWolf

[Paradox]

I would love you guys at Leatherneck forever if you did the Flogger. It's a sweet looking aircraft and I've always wanted to fly a variable geometry wing aircraft. The Flogger was also one of the first air fix models I made as a lad :). Just wondering, what was the western equal to the Flogger back then? F-4 perhaps?

 

F-16A if you're an optimist.

[Vampyre]

F-16A if you're an optimist.

 

Well, the MiG-23MLD did have much better acceleration and longer range missiles that the F-16A, but the Falcon would rule the WVR arena. We are talking 70's-80's F-16A before the advent of the AMRAAM or the AIM-7 capable F-16ADF.

[JG-1_Vogel]

Just looked at the variants on Wikipedia, given that Leatherneck would want to bring over as much in the way of existing assets from the MiG-21 you reckon they might look at doing the 23M? The MLD would be cool but unsure if they could do it.

[lmp]

The closest one in terms of equipment would be the MS export variant. M, MF, ML and MLD would all require the radar and TP-23 sensor to all be done from scratch.

 

Part of me would want the MF, because it has served with the Polish air force, but the ML or MLD would probably provide a more interesting gameplay.

[Stratos]

Thanks for the great info WinterH. And yes the PFM was a variant that saw combat in sevaral places, not only in Vietnam, and think it will share a lot more with the bis than the F-13.

[Stratos]

As I hope someone develope a Afghanistan map once EDGE is released I will love to see this cammos for the DRAAF. Pinpoint attack with this beast will be fun as best.

 

 

[Sceptre]

The closest to an Afghanistan map right now is the DCS: Desert re texture, which I might add, is extremely good.

I believe it's by Highwayman Ed

[Stratos]

I think my repaint is closer to Afghanistan or at least that was my intention, his one is better than mine representing a sandy desert country. Once the Bis is released will be great to have a Pakistani F-16A skin so we can play hide and seek with them.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Stratos