#04 - MINI-UPDATE & COLD STARTUP

[plehmann]

Cobra,thank you for the update.

But,I would like to know why there is no release date?

Could you tell me some reasons?

Waiting for test?waiting for 1.3.0?debugs?or even the project hasn`t finished?

Always you said,there is some new problems,more time is needed.

But,when can the mig-21bis be done?a month or 2?when can I see "DCS:Mig-21bis is released"in the topic of "official updates"?

 

Hi flankerzrj,

Cobra has answered this...until they are sure of the ability to meet a release date, nothing is going to be announced...see first post on this thread....

sheesh you only have to see what happens if a live stream is missed...the heavens would erupt if, god forbid they missed a communicated release date...

on a more selfish note..my oculus rift has not arrived yet so I'm looking forward to EDGE,MIG,DORA and Oculus ..I shall not be turning up to work that week!

[Sceptre]

Hi flankerzrj,

Cobra has answered this...until they are sure of the ability to meet a release date, nothing is going to be announced...see first post on this thread....

sheesh you only have to see what happens if a live stream is missed...the heavens would erupt if, god forbid they missed a communicated release date...

on a more selfish note..my oculus rift has not arrived yet so I'm looking forward to EDGE,MIG,DORA and Oculus ..I shall not be turning up to work that week!

 

lol you are right, it gets pretty toxic when a release date is missed

[26-J39]

Shhhhh..... :angel: let the man do his work.. :yes:

 

:D

[F l a n k e r]

Shhhhh..... :angel: let the man do his work.. :yes:

 

:D

Four years are enough to make a complete game, not just a module...

[Sceptre]

Four years are enough to make a complete game, not just a module...

 

But when you have 3 or 4 people working by themselves it's a different story. I'm surprised by how far they've come already :)

[TOYKILLA]

This Module is a full MiG21 Simulation. I would say, it is the best and most realistic Combat-flight-Sim ever.

 

We only need Oculus Rift and Control VR (Virtual Body) Support for this.

[kazereal]

Four years are enough to make a complete game, not just a module...

 

Game development teams nowadays have ten times as many people: 50 people might be considered small team in some cases.. And the budgets are much higher of course.

 

Plus there is the fact that for games you may just "wing it" and it does not have to be that precise if it just looks good. High quality simulations are entirely different matter.

[rajdary]

Cobra, it was great, thanks

[Alicatt]

Four years are enough to make a complete game, not just a module...

 

Game development teams nowadays have ten times as many people: 50 people might be considered small team in some cases.. And the budgets are much higher of course.

 

Plus there is the fact that for games you may just "wing it" and it does not have to be that precise if it just looks good. High quality simulations are entirely different matter.

 

Have a look at star citizen they have a direct employment of around 200 plus other studios doing parts of the development, they started writing code in 2010 to get a demo video ready for October 2012, now it is July 2014 and they have only just released the dogfight module. I think Beczl and Leatherneck Studios have done very well to get this far in such a short space of time with the limited manpower they have.

[WinterH]

Four years are enough to make a complete game, not just a module...

 

Partially right. But if we look at the flight simulation genre ;

- Jet Thunder

- Seven-G

- Fighter Ops

- Combat Helo

- Fabled 4.33 update for Falcon BMS

- Fabled 3.01 update for IL-2 : Ultrapack mod

- Any DCS module actually

- And I guess the new flavors of IL-2 ?

- TacPack for FSX

 

They all are taking ages, and these are the ones I can remember, there may be even more forgotten sim titles in development. Flight sim development is not quite the same as a FPS or RTS or any other type of game actually. The more you aim for detail & fidelity, required effort goes up exponentially.

 

The studios that pump up titles continously have loads of developers & artists AND loads of capital to feed them. And frankly, most of "yearly or bi-yearly" titles are same thing cooked / spiced again with updated graphics engine and not much else on top of previous title. Even non-sim titles that are being developed from ground up or receiving major changes from earlier version usually have quite protracted development periods. Therefore we are lucky that DCS provides combat sim developers with an environment & graphics & physics engine, so they don't have to focus on those too and instead concentrate on fidelity & detail while being able to provide us with many different aircraft, for more or less the time it would take to create a single (and usually either with less fidelity or less diversity) sim...

 

I share the enthusiasm and eagerness people has with DCS modules and understand the frustration on delays, heck I'd be lying if I say not having all the new shiny modules on my disk does not disappoint me, even if only a little bit. But being a software developer / designer / team leader, and also a photographer, I understand from both development and art perspectives just how exhaustive can these stuff be and how estimations can be very difficult to provide with a semblance of accuracy. I know it first-hand :) (but for something as complex as a flight sim, I can still only imagine the scale of it :D).

 

In our day of either insta-gratification pop-corns or enless leveling up gaming, I actually am glad people are still taking the hard road and provide us with new, ever improving simulation titles, putting up with all the difficulties of development and receiving mostly heavy flak from community for it :))

[Sceptre]

Partially right. But if we look at the flight simulation genre ;

- Jet Thunder

- Seven-G

- Fighter Ops

- Combat Helo

- Fabled 4.33 update for Falcon BMS

- Fabled 3.01 update for IL-2 : Ultrapack mod

- Any DCS module actually

- And I guess the new flavors of IL-2 ?

- TacPack for FSX

 

They all are taking ages, and these are the ones I can remember, there may be even more forgotten sim titles in development. Flight sim development is not quite the same as a FPS or RTS or any other type of game actually. The more you aim for detail & fidelity, required effort goes up exponentially.

 

The studios that pump up titles continously have loads of developers & artists AND loads of capital to feed them. And frankly, most of "yearly or bi-yearly" titles are same thing cooked / spiced again with updated graphics engine and not much else on top of previous title. Even non-sim titles that are being developed from ground up or receiving major changes from earlier version usually have quite protracted development periods. Therefore we are lucky that DCS provides combat sim developers with an environment & graphics & physics engine, so they don't have to focus on those too and instead concentrate on fidelity & detail while being able to provide us with many different aircraft, for more or less the time it would take to create a single (and usually either with less fidelity or less diversity) sim...

 

I share the enthusiasm and eagerness people has with DCS modules and understand the frustration on delays, heck I'd be lying if I say not having all the new shiny modules on my disk does not disappoint me, even if only a little bit. But being a software developer / designer / team leader, and also a photographer, I understand from both development and art perspectives just how exhaustive can these stuff be and how estimations can be very difficult to provide with a semblance of accuracy. I know it first-hand :) (but for something as complex as a flight sim, I can still only imagine the scale of it :D).

 

In our day of either insta-gratification pop-corns or enless leveling up gaming, I actually am glad people are still taking the hard road and provide us with new, ever improving simulation titles, putting up with all the difficulties of development and receiving mostly heavy flak from community for it :))

I basically agree with all your points, and thank you for not putting War Thunder in your list :)

Some people don't understand that it's not a flight sim

[F l a n k e r]

I agree, plus they are only few people working at this module.

But I still think that a bit too many time is passed... the project has become old and then they had to update it to the new standards. And now we got the EDGE: I hope this is really the last one before the relase.

[scaflight]

I couldn't really contain myself after the Cold Startup video, so I decided I needed something to train on. Even if I don't really know what I'd be pushing, I'd at least mimic Cobra's steps. So, for all its worth as a "manual", I believe these links are relatively accurate if you want to do some dry-practise.

 

Clear cockpit: http://i.imgur.com/l0ziQgK.png

 

Switches numbered: http://i.imgur.com/fhqnsW5.png

 

Areas marked: http://i.imgur.com/Lz06Z8J.png

 

Arrows until Step 22: http://i.imgur.com/KHVaeSd.png

 

Arrows after Step 22: http://i.imgur.com/4HL4KnT.png

 

Arrows until step 22+numbers+markers: http://i.imgur.com/GDhEwts.png

 

Arrows after step 22+numbers+markers: http://i.imgur.com/zDvIQUq.png

 

 

(Moved from the 'manual' thread because I don't think it's what OP wanted in that thread)

[Cobra847]

I couldn't really contain myself after the Cold Startup video, so I decided I needed something to train on. Even if I don't really know what I'd be pushing, I'd at least mimic Cobra's steps. So, for all its worth as a "manual", I believe these links are relatively accurate if you want to do some dry-practise.

 

Clear cockpit: http://i.imgur.com/l0ziQgK.png

 

Switches numbered: http://i.imgur.com/fhqnsW5.png

 

Areas marked: http://i.imgur.com/Lz06Z8J.png

 

Arrows until Step 22: http://i.imgur.com/KHVaeSd.png

 

Arrows after Step 22: http://i.imgur.com/4HL4KnT.png

 

Arrows until step 22+numbers+markers: http://i.imgur.com/GDhEwts.png

 

Arrows after step 22+numbers+markers: http://i.imgur.com/zDvIQUq.png

 

 

(Moved from the 'manual' thread because I don't think it's what OP wanted in that thread)

 

Very impressive.

 

Just a quick note: some of the steps performed are semi-optional, for example turning on the ASP Gunsight with 28 & 29. Once you've all come to grips with the aircraft you'll be better equipped to decide how much to turn on on the ground. :)

[Gargoyle1]

Cobra Please read this!

 

Cobra if you could please respond to this, that would be great!

 

May I suggest something? Perhaps doing the system that Belsimtek uses would benefit everyone including LS.

 

If you would release the mig-21 (or any future project) as a beta WIP, We as the community would be happy as well as leatherneck simulations because we will be happy that we get to fly this plane after 4 years of waiting and you guys would benefit because the community can report bugs (maybe even some you guys never knew existed!). This is just a suggestion, i'm not demanding you guys do this, but some feedback from you would be much appreciated! It seems that Belsimtek's system is working out and they are fixing every bug that is reported to them on their modules. Please think about this with your fellow team members. Thank you!

 

-Gargoyle

[Grim_Smiles]

Nice video, looking forward to her more and more.

 

 

May I suggest something? Perhaps doing the system that Belsimtek uses would benefit everyone including LS.

 

If you would release the mig-21 (or any future project) as a beta WIP, .....

 

I can't speak for future projects, only LN can do that, but they have said a number of times that they aren't going to release the MiG-21 as a beta and so far I've seen no update to this stance.

[ddhenda]

I couldn't really contain myself after the Cold Startup video, so I decided I needed something to train on. Even if I don't really know what I'd be pushing, I'd at least mimic Cobra's steps. So, for all its worth as a "manual", I believe these links are relatively accurate if you want to do some dry-practise.

 

Clear cockpit: http://i.imgur.com/l0ziQgK.png

 

Switches numbered: http://i.imgur.com/fhqnsW5.png

 

Areas marked: http://i.imgur.com/Lz06Z8J.png

 

Arrows until Step 22: http://i.imgur.com/KHVaeSd.png

 

Arrows after Step 22: http://i.imgur.com/4HL4KnT.png

 

Arrows until step 22+numbers+markers: http://i.imgur.com/GDhEwts.png

 

Arrows after step 22+numbers+markers: http://i.imgur.com/zDvIQUq.png

 

 

(Moved from the 'manual' thread because I don't think it's what OP wanted in that thread)

 

Great summary

Edited July 7, 2014 by ddhenda

[mjmorrow]

Very impressive.

 

Just a quick note: some of the steps performed are semi-optional, for example turning on the ASP Gunsight with 28 & 29. Once you've all come to grips with the aircraft you'll be better equipped to decide how much to turn on on the ground. :)

 

You thought the cold start might be boring?! I loved it. I am buying your Mig-21 the first day it comes out. What a work of art. Thank you all for doing such a great job on the Mig-21 and for sharing a coldstart with us. :thumbup:

[Deekon13]

Thanks for the video Cobra. I really love this Jet and have been reading everything I can find about the plane in anticipation of its release. Very happy you Leatherneck guys made this Mig. Will be flying this one as soon as it is ready!

 

Also, thanks to scaflight for the cockpit info.

[Cedaway]

Very nice work. Really want this module installed on my PC.

 

Just one comment about sound:

As you start the engine, we can see the (EGT?) needles building up but I can't hear the engine spool up. It's like if when you press the engine start button, the engine sound come and it's immediately spooled up. There is no 'building up'.

The same for the afterburner: I can't hear the difference between mil power and afterburner power. Or too subtle?

 

Is this part still WIP or is this normal behavior?

 

And thanks again for the video.

[Rabbit_]

Very nice work. Really want this module installed on my PC.

 

Just one comment about sound:

As you start the engine, we can see the (EGT?) needles building up but I can't hear the engine spool up. It's like if when you press the engine start button, the engine sound come and it's immediately spooled up. There is no 'building up'.

The same for the afterburner: I can't hear the difference between mil power and afterburner power. Or too subtle?

 

Is this part still WIP or is this normal behavior?

 

And thanks again for the video.

 

 

That is something I wanted to ask as well. High pitch turbine sound is also missing while in external view, so is it going to be changed in the future or this is just how it sounds? Because 21 always had that "ears killing" engine sound. :-)

[Grizzly1606688174]

Very nice work. Really want this module installed on my PC.

 

Just one comment about sound:

As you start the engine, we can see the (EGT?) needles building up but I can't hear the engine spool up. It's like if when you press the engine start button, the engine sound come and it's immediately spooled up. There is no 'building up'.

The same for the afterburner: I can't hear the difference between mil power and afterburner power. Or too subtle?

 

Is this part still WIP or is this normal behavior?

 

And thanks again for the video.

That is something I wanted to ask as well. High pitch turbine sound is also missing while in external view, so is it going to be changed in the future or this is just how it sounds? Because 21 always had that "ears killing" engine sound. :-)

 

 

+1 wondering about this as well.

(Thanks for the video!)

[Cobra847]

Yes, sound is currently a little on the basic side and will be vastly improved. This has mainly been due to the way that sound is implemented in the core engine, and changes therein.

This might come with a day 1 patch, before release itself or just after -- depending on how fast we can implement our new soundset.

[Robo.]

Excellent update, thank you very much. Can't wait to buy this module!

[Sauer Kaese]

Yes, sound is currently a little on the basic side and will be vastly improved. This has mainly been due to the way that sound is implemented in the core engine, and changes therein.

This might come with a day 1 patch, before release itself or just after -- depending on how fast we can implement our new soundset.

 

Hi Cobra,

 

many thanks for this great update!

 

I have a question: on the video the wheels are still rotating further though. But in the true life take off the wheels braked by a automatic braking system after take off.

 

Thus the question is: is either the brake of the wheels after take off not also modeled (which I think is not bad at all), or the system was not turned on?

 

greeting