DCS Bf 109K-4

[Mainstay]

Kinda sad to read it was Fuel that made some of these machines never fly....

 

[snapsimo]

When I get airborne in the 109, sometimes the engine seizes. Prop stop dead. About 2 minutes into the flight. Using auto start as well. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

[Buzzles]

When I get airborne in the 109, sometimes the engine seizes. Prop stop dead. About 2 minutes into the flight. Using auto start as well. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

 

Is the governer in auto mode?

[snapsimo]

As far as I know. The clocks moving so I think so.

[Solty]

Guys because sound topic was closed I wanted to say that I like the 109s sound now after patches. It is at a level with P-51 and Dora and you can hear some detail in it.

 

Especially in the external. Internal may be muffed, but thats because of the helmet.

 

Before those few patches the 109 was very quiet and had just some zzzzzzzz sound. Now the low brbrbrbrr of the engine at low rpm is realy nicely modeled. Surely an improvment over the one that we had before.

 

It has changed for better surely for me.The whine can be heard although it is quite quiet, but it was never at a level of P-51 so and it is quiet too so I believe that scale is quite well preserved. Some still need work for me though. Like the high RPM one, but it seems as the normal thing that happens in DCS sounds. They always have that "too clean" factor.

 

You can find samples in effects/aircrafts/engines/DB605

Edited December 27, 2014 by Solty

[venancio.avf]

hey, just bought this beauty and I would like to know why my fuel pressure gauge drops when i'm flying iverted, shouldn't this plane fly without no problem inverted??

I really don't know, my only virtual flight experience comes from war thunder, so i want to know if it's normal or I'm just forgetting something, thx in advance, sorry for bad english.

 

edit: just checked the manual, iverted flight limited to 10 secs due to loss of oil pressure and failure of the scavenger pump to operate iverted.

Edited December 29, 2014 by venancio.avf

[audax]

Is the governer in auto mode?

I had the problem that my generator went off and the auto prop didn't work anymore. I fixed the problem by removing all bindings for the circuit breakers…

[venancio.avf]

I notice something wierd, "Zu" in the fuel pumps lever position means closed, while in the radiator control "Zu" means that they are open, should it be closed as well?

[TXSailor]

I notice something wierd, "Zu" in the fuel pumps lever position means closed, while in the radiator control "Zu" means that they are open, should it be closed as well?

 

Zu is always closed. Auf is open for the radiator as well.

[venancio.avf]

Zu is always closed. Auf is open for the radiator as well.

 

ok, so when I go to instant action>cold start my binding for open put me on Zu position, and the hints that pop up when you put the mouse over Zu says that it's open while in reality they are closed, don't know if it is a bug, I think I will just change the bindings.

 

Thanks bro o7

[TXSailor]

ok, so when I go to instant action>cold start my binding for open put me on Zu position, and the hints that pop up when you put the mouse over Zu says that it's open while in reality they are closed, don't know if it is a bug, I think I will just change the bindings.

 

Thanks bro o7

 

Hmmm. Try running it in the Zu position and see if the aircraft overheats. That will tell us if it's a problem with the key binding or if it's a modeling error. I know for me, I run it in either the Auf or Automatik and it stays cool. The manual also specifies "Auf".

[golani79]

The radiator controls were already reported as far as I know - should be a bug.

[venancio.avf]

if you set to Zu it closes, but the bind and the hint that show up when you use the mouse says it's open, so i think it's just a minor correction, not wrong with the funcionality.

[Madmax]

Hello everyone, since the last update, the landing gear was more or little impact (drag) on the plane.

 

Have you noticed this or not?

 

 

@+Mad

[Charly_Owl]

New quick guide for the 109 available here http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=128890

[mugen]

Interesting article: flying the 109 (Red 7)

 

Hi,

i stumbled on an interesting article about flying the 109 (Red 7).

 

http://www.klassiker-der-luftfahrt.de/geschichte/flugzeuge/messerschmitt-bf-109-so-fliegt-die-109/533908

 

This is an attempt to summarize some (imo) interesting statements in this text.

The article was originally puplished by a german aviation magazine (Aerokurier) in 2005.

Sorry, I'm not going to translate the hole text but will try to concentrate on mentioned flight and handling characteristics, basically.

So, let's go.

 

Walter Eichhorn did the first test flights of "red 7" after restoration and instructed the three owners on their BF 109 G4. Walter has been instructed on the 109 by Erich Hartmann, in 1986.

Eichhorn has about 250 hrs on various 109 versions and is maybe the most experienced 109 Pilot, today (2005).

 

Start up:

 

When performing a cold start, reduce revs to 600 rpm immediately after the engine fires, to keep oil pressure within "green" specs. "After start up, you have just 7 minutes for take off, at normal temps and about 10 min in cold weather condition until the engine gets too hot",says Heinz. Water temp rises faster than oil temp and shall not exceed 100°C. Oil temp needs to be at least 40°C to ensure proper lubrication at T.O. power setting. Magnet check at 1800 rpm.

 

Take off setup:

 

Check undercarriage switch. Lock tail wheel. Set prop pitch to manual 12 o'clock. Set radiator manually open and flaps to 20°. Set elevator trimm to "+1" and el. fuelpump to on. Sigi Knoll (one of the 3 owners) compares the 109 with Formula 1. In just 6 sec the DB 605 A1 accelerates the Fighter AC to 180 Kmph and flies. While T.O., you need to be fully concentrated on the plane. For a moment, the aircraft dodges to the right because of the engine acceleration torque. Then, the torque of the 3m Propeller accesses and wants to turn the airplane strongly to the left, at least when the tail wheel lifts. But the left breaking tendency is well controllable if you advance the throttle slowly and smoothly. Walter Eichhorn lines up a bit off center and a little to the right to have some more angle and space to maneuver the AC along the runway. While the owners T.O. at 2600 rpm and 1.3 ATA, Walter contents himself with 2300 rpm and 1.15 ATA, which corresponds to the power setting for climb in the flight manual. "That's absolute sufficient", so W. Eichhorn. Although the 109 has an automatic controled propeller, the prop pitch is set to manual (12 o'clock) for T.O.. The usually automatic operating radiator flaps are set to manual too during T.O., to prevent them from moving unintentionally. "It would be fatal if one of the radiator flaps would close while T.O.", says Eichhorn. The elevator trimm is set to "+1", to prevent the AC to pitch up. "The AC shall not fly before the pilot wants it to", says W. Heinz. "The tail wheel should not be raised to high, because of the low prop clearence of just 17 cm". They T.O. with about 5° angle of attack. "It's quite amazing for me how fast the 109 accelerates in the inital climb", says Sigi Knoll. If you pull more than half a G while driving the undercarriage, the hydraulic will not be capable to retract the gear legs. Even within normal conditions it takes about 30 seconds until the red indicator light up. Flaps are beeing retracted by turning the handwheel. Prop pitch and radiator control are set to auto.

 

Flying:

 

The pilot has little workload once the systems are set to automatic. A perfect one lever control, by just adjusting manifold pressure. Red 7 does 360 Kmph at cruise setting (1.05 ATA, 2050 rpm). The red line on the airspeed indicator of the 'Albstadt' (town in South Germany) Bf 109 marks 550 kmph, limited by choice. In the past, the fighter was flown up to 750 kmph. "With their handling in the air, the plane enthuses everyone who has flown it. She behaves absolutely fair," notes Werner Grammel. "This also applies to the stall. At about 140 to 150 kmph, depending on the configuration, she drops away to the left. Release stick back pressure, control surfaces neutral and she's back again". Aerobatic maneuvers during demonstration displays are performed with climb power setting. "You have to take care, to not initiate rotation about longitudinal axis below 200 Kmph. At higher speed, above 300 kmph, the 109 gets increasingly heavy on controls, it's quite a hand full", explains Sigi Knoll.

 

Landing:

 

Landing has to be forsightfully planned. The process starts with switching off the radiator automatic. Manually fully opened, the spreaded radiator flaps at the wings trailing edge, close to the fusalage are decreasing the AC speed down to 300 kmph, at cruise power. The prop pitch is again switched to manual and set to 11:30. While further reducing power, below 250 kmph, flaps are set initially to 20°. Once decelerated to 200 kmph, the undercarriage is beeing extended. Still in wide downwind leg, flaps are set to 40°, and by a switch, the spark plugs can be burned. This should help to keep the egine running smoothly, when the plane has been flown with very low power over a longer time, previously. The final approach is done after a flat (low bank) turn at 180 kmph, Eichhorn prefers a slightly increased power setting. "Better 5 kmph too fast than being too slow", he says, "otherwise the descend rate is too high. Power changes in this speed range are connected with a strong turning about the vertical axis. You have to imagine that in the Messerschmitt, even small throttle changes are like 200 or 300 hp power difference. This has to be handled immediately". A lot of work that can quickly make the approach a wild ride, when descent rate, approach angle and speed do not match in the beginning. "The 109 wants to be treated like a glider on landing" once Bubi Hartmann had explained to Eichhorn. And this is confirmed by the three owners. A good method seems to be, to fly the final in a gentle curve. Thus, you keep the runway longest in sight. Just before touchdown, lined up straight, the landing tabs remain the only visual reference. "The Bf 109 is no wonder airplane," says Eichhorn, and Wilhelm Heinz even says that she is "meek as a lamp" if you treat her right. "But it's clearly a plane that has to be flown very disciplined, in precisely defined limits". Reserves, in case of errors, are depleted very quickly. This is probably one of the biggest differences to aircrafts usually flown by private pilots. Werner Grammel says it quite dramatically, "If you treat her properly, she is good to you too. If you don't, you'll get into hot water".

 

More info about this and some more Messerschmitts @ http://www.flugmuseum-messerschmitt.de

 

 

greez mugen

Edited January 16, 2015 by mugen
wrong translation, thanks to MiloMorai.

[SlipBall]

Thanks mugen for taking the time to translate and post that, it is very interesting. I like the part about comparing to a Formula car and the 6 seconds till airborne

Edited January 16, 2015 by GT 5.0

[MiloMorai]

Once decelerated to 200 kmph, the undercarriage is being retracted.

 

Nice and thanks but why is the undercarriage being retracted if the a/c is landing?

[mugen]

Thanks mugen for taking the time to translate and post that, it is very interesting. I like the part about comparing to a Formula car and the 6 seconds till airborne

 

Thank you GT 5.0, you're welcome.

 

Nice and thanks but why is the undercarriage being retracted if the a/c is landing?

 

Thank you MiloMorai for pointing me to this, it's corrected. :thumbup:

 

greez mugen

[SlipBall]

Nice and thanks but why is the undercarriage being retracted if the a/c is landing?

 

 

I think a wording or a translation error in the description for landing

 

My take is to leave the gear retracted even during the long downwind leg, hold off to lower the gear it seems to me...

[mugen]

Yes, me too. I extend the undercarriage just before or while turning into base.

[Merlin-27]

Good read, Mugen. Thanks for sharing it.

[javelina1]

thanks Mugen, appreciate your post.

[Bucic]

Hi,

i stumbled on an interesting article about flying the 109 (Red 7).

 

http://www.klassiker-der-luftfahrt.de/geschichte/flugzeuge/messerschmitt-bf-109-so-fliegt-die-109/533908

 

This is an attempt to summarize some (imo) interesting statements in this text.

The article was originally puplished by a german aviation magazine (Aerokurier) in 2005.

Sorry, I'm not going to translate the hole text but will try to concentrate on mentioned flight and handling characteristics, basically.

So, let's go.

 

Walter Eichhorn did the first test flights of "red 7" after restoration and instructed the three owners on their BF 109 G4. Walter has been instructed on the 109 by Erich Hartmann, in 1986.

Eichhorn has about 250 hrs on various 109 versions and is maybe the most experienced 109 Pilot, today (2005).

 

Start up:

 

When performing a cold start, reduce revs to 600 rpm immediately after the engine fires, to keep oil pressure within "green" specs. "After start up, you have just 7 minutes for take off, at normal temps and about 10 min in cold weather condition until the engine gets too hot",says Heinz. Water temp rises faster than oil temp and shall not exceed 100°C. Oil temp needs to be at least 40°C to ensure proper lubrication at T.O. power setting. Magnet check at 1800 rpm.

 

Take off setup:

 

Check undercarriage switch. Lock tail wheel. Set prop pitch to manual 12 o'clock. Set radiator manually open and flaps to 20°. Set elevator trimm to "+1" and el. fuelpump to on. Sigi Knoll (one of the 3 owners) compares the 109 with Formula 1. In just 6 sec the DB 605 A1 accelerates the Fighter AC to 180 Kmph and flies. While T.O., you need to be fully concentrated on the plane. For a moment, the aircraft dodges to the right because of the engine acceleration torque. Then, the torque of the 3m Propeller accesses and wants to turn the airplane strongly to the left, at least when the tail wheel lifts. But the left breaking tendency is well controllable if you advance the throttle slowly and smoothly. Walter Eichhorn lines up a bit off center and a little to the right to have some more angle and space to maneuver the AC along the runway. While the owners T.O. at 2600 rpm and 1.3 ATA, Walter contents himself with 2300 rpm and 1.15 ATA, which corresponds to the power setting for climb in the flight manual. "That's absolute sufficient", so W. Eichhorn. Although the 109 has an automatic controled propeller, the prop pitch is set to manual (12 o'clock) for T.O.. The usually automatic operating radiator flaps are set to manual too during T.O., to prevent them from moving unintentionally. "It would be fatal if one of the radiator flaps would close while T.O.", says Eichhorn. The elevator trimm is set to "+1", to prevent the AC to pitch up. "The AC shall not fly before the pilot wants it to", says W. Heinz. "The tail wheel should not be raised to high, because of the low prop clearence of just 17 cm". They T.O. with about 5° angle of attack. "It's quite amazing for me how fast the 109 accelerates in the inital climb", says Sigi Knoll. If you pull more than half a G while driving the undercarriage, the hydraulic will not be capable to retract the gear legs. Even within normal conditions it takes about 30 seconds until the red indicator light up. Flaps are beeing retracted by turning the handwheel. Prop pitch and radiator control are set to auto.

 

Flying:

 

The pilot has little workload once the systems are set to automatic. A perfect one lever control, by just adjusting manifold pressure. Red 7 does 360 Kmph at cruise setting (1.05 ATA, 2050 rpm). The red line on the airspeed indicator of the 'Albstadt' (town in South Germany) Bf 109 marks 550 kmph, limited by choice. In the past, the fighter was flown up to 750 kmph. "With their handling in the air, the plane enthuses everyone who has flown it. She behaves absolutely fair," notes Werner Grammel. "This also applies to the stall. At about 140 to 150 kmph, depending on the configuration, she drops away to the left. Release stick back pressure, control surfaces neutral and she's back again". Aerobatic maneuvers during demonstration displays are performed with climb power setting. "You have to take care, to not initiate rotation about longitudinal axis below 200 Kmph. At higher speed, above 300 kmph, the 109 gets increasingly heavy on controls, it's quite a hand full", explains Sigi Knoll.

 

Landing:

 

Landing has to be forsightfully planned. The process starts with switching off the radiator automatic. Manually fully opened, the spreaded radiator flaps at the wings trailing edge, close to the fusalage are decreasing the AC speed down to 300 kmph, at cruise power. The prop pitch is again switched to manual and set to 11:30. While further reducing power, below 250 kmph, flaps are set initially to 20°. Once decelerated to 200 kmph, the undercarriage is beeing extended. Still in wide downwind leg, flaps are set to 40°, and by a switch, the spark plugs can be burned. This should help to keep the egine running smoothly, when the plane has been flown with very low power over a longer time, previously. The final approach is done after a flat (low bank) turn at 180 kmph, Eichhorn prefers a slightly increased power setting. "Better 5 kmph too fast than being too slow", he says, "otherwise the descend rate is too high. Power changes in this speed range are connected with a strong turning about the vertical axis. You have to imagine that in the Messerschmitt, even small throttle changes are like 200 or 300 hp power difference. This has to be handled immediately". A lot of work that can quickly make the approach a wild ride, when descent rate, approach angle and speed do not match in the beginning. "The 109 wants to be treated like a glider on landing" once Bubi Hartmann had explained to Eichhorn. And this is confirmed by the three owners. A good method seems to be, to fly the final in a gentle curve. Thus, you keep the runway longest in sight. Just before touchdown, lined up straight, the landing tabs remain the only visual reference. "The Bf 109 is no wonder airplane," says Eichhorn, and Wilhelm Heinz even says that she is "meek as a lamp" if you treat her right. "But it's clearly a plane that has to be flown very disciplined, in precisely defined limits". Reserves, in case of errors, are depleted very quickly. This is probably one of the biggest differences to aircrafts usually flown by private pilots. Werner Grammel says it quite dramatically, "If you treat her properly, she is good to you too. If you don't, you'll get into hot water".

 

More info about this and some more Messerschmitts @ http://www.flugmuseum-messerschmitt.de

 

 

greez mugen

I wish all of such info was curated into one place. All of the RL reports useful to virtual DCS Kurfurst pilots. It's going to get lost within hours.

[Solty]

I wish all of such info was curated into one place. All of the RL reports useful to virtual DCS Kurfurst pilots. It's going to get lost within hours.

+1