How to Takeoff in the Dora

[PE_Tigar]

I did have some trouble taking off until I pulled take off assistance slider to zero (it was on 100% by default, didn't check it before testing...).

[jctrnacty]

I have to laugh. I cant take off :-))))) 10 tries none succesful

 

I mastered A-10C, Ka50, P51, but this is impossible

[159th_Viper]

I have to laugh. I cant take off :-)))))

 

Hey it took me longer if I recall correctly. Hang in there - you'll get it soon enough :)

[txmtb]

I have to laugh. I cant take off :-))))) 10 tries none succesful

 

I mastered A-10C, Ka50, P51, but this is impossible

 

I think I amassed around 60 deaths in the first 2-3 days. By far hardest module to take off IMO.

[Yo-Yo]

The old advise: USE CLOUDS TO WATCH EVEN SMALLEST DEVIATION. You will be impressed how straight your takeoff roll becomes!

[fastfreddie]

I think I amassed around 60 deaths in the first 2-3 days. By far hardest module to take off IMO.

 

Just wait till we get the Bf109K4 because runways online are going to look like a B-52 had made a run over your airfield unless they learn this one first.

[[DBS]TH0R]

I have to laugh. I cant take off :-))))) 10 tries none succesful

 

I mastered A-10C, Ka50, P51, but this is impossible

 

 

Awkward. I find TO in Mustang far more difficult...

 

 

 

The old advise: USE CLOUDS TO WATCH EVEN SMALLEST DEVIATION. You will be impressed how straight your takeoff roll becomes!

 

Interesting. Will give this a try next time.

[DieHard]

Well, to be fair, I do fuss with my rudder pedals and roll control on takeoff but it is hard to explain how I do it or what I do. It is just standard procedure I use with some of the aircraft in DCS; it is kind of instinctive and reactive. If I was to takeoff in the P-51 or FW-190 in formation I doubt it would be very pretty. I fly by myself. Am always looking for a good wingman or me his but the only close buddy I have fun online with we play Arna 3 on his server.

 

I can takeoff, fly around on a tank of gas and land fairly good.

 

But as to dogfighting? I just plain suck! Been playing the WWII sims since 2007. Does not matter what sim I play, if it is against another human player I rarely win. But about 50% of the time I can get an even draw where we just fly round and round but never engage---one on one. A few months back did that with Merlin, we both had the Mustang on his server.

[Friedric]

I do it like this. Trothle go 2000rpm, with brakes on , release breaks and aply some right rudder tapping and Trothle steadly to 2500-2800rpm al with stick back full and tapping the rudders when needed dont just push the rudders just tap it at 150-180 km/h i center the

Stick mostly with no rudder inputs @200km/h i take of with slight right rudder . Reply to this with phone at work .

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

Took me 5 or 6 goes to take off and I admit on the last failed attempt I may hay taken the lords name in vane... But as soon as I realised it has a lockable tail wheel! I was fine.

 

I can take off no worries now and I'm only using a logitech 3d pro $40 twisty flight stick. no pedals...

 

I love this footage of this Luftwaffe pilot nearly loosing it while taking off in front of the news cameras!

 

Edited August 21, 2014 by Dirty Rotten Flieger

[SAM77]

Sort of looks like he hits a big puddle that acts as a brake.... Nice catch

[Lange_666]

For those that have tried the curves on rudder pedals, what curve value did y'all put in?

I've answered this question with 27% but today i decided to reset this to zero after my second take-off attempt ended in disaster again.

Set it to zero and did 5 take-off in a row staying almost stright in the middle of the runway.

 

I did set it up with 15% curve (like most of my airplanes to make taxiing a little more smooth). This didn't work well in the beginning so i took a look at my P-51 setting which were at 27%. Set it to 27% and take-off went better but you can end up in the steep part of the curve when tapdancing the pedals making the rudder suddenly very responsive which you don't want at a certain point.

By now setting it back to zero%, it's an almost smooth ride into the sky...

[rrohde]

Little nugget from wikipedia:

 

[...]Take off was easy; 10° of flap and power to 2,700 rpm and 23.5 lb in. boost made the run very similar to the Spitfire IX. Un-stick was found to be 112 mph and the fighter had a habit of swinging to port. Speed in the climb was set at 161 mph, a rate of 3,000 feet per minute.[...]

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190_operational_history

[NineLine]

Little nugget from wikipedia:

 

[...]Take off was easy; 10° of flap and power to 2,700 rpm and 23.5 lb in. boost made the run very similar to the Spitfire IX. Un-stick was found to be 112 mph and the fighter had a habit of swinging to port. Speed in the climb was set at 161 mph, a rate of 3,000 feet per minute.[...]

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190_operational_history

 

Of course the quote isnt from a Dora though ;) And easy for a Spitfire pilot doesnt translate to easy for me or you ;)

 

That said, with quite a few under my belt I agree... they are easy ;)

[PE_Tigar]

Swing to port - yes, indeed...

[Lange_666]

My overall conclusion on take-off:

 

Struggled hard to get this aircraft off the ground, maybe 2 succesfull take-offs in the first 100 try's. Even then they weren't pretty and i considered them pure luck. Rudder settings where 27% curved (all my other aircraft have curses so i did do this with this one to withouyt trying).

Then i changed from smooth throttle increase to direct full throttle and that made a world of difference but it still wasn't good enough. The succesrate went up from 2% to around 70%. It was still kinda hard to take off in straight line.

Then i removed all the curve from the rudder input and since then succes went up to 100% and takeing off in straight line is easy.

 

So:

- No rudder curve (set to default 0%)

- Align the tailwheel (once you get the hang of it, this isn't really needed).

- Full throttle immediatly to get airflow over the rudder.

- Once rolling pull back stick to lock the tailwheel

- Tapdancing the rudder a bit to feel where the aircraft is heading, i always end up with a bit of right rudder while rolling down the runway.

- At around 170 kph, release stick, tail comes up (if not move stick a bit forward to bring tail up).

- At 200 kph, pull back stick for lift off.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Lange_666

[Meteor2]

Lange_666, I am glad to hear, that I am not the only one, with this nummer of failed take-offs:music_whistling:.

Will try your instruktion, thanks.

The P51 is much more forgiving in the starting phase (for me at least).

[MACADEMIC]

Posted this earlier on in the aerodynamic model thread, but probably belongs here as well.

 

Take Off technique according to the original FW190-D9 pilot's operating handbook:

 

- straighten airplane

- full brakes, stick neutral

- smartly advance power to take off position

- release brakes

- small corrections with rudder to keep straight

- don't push stick forward only lightly feel forces on stick

- leave tail down until plane is ready to fly

 

Videos and track for illustration.

 

MAC

 

P.S.: 0 wind, 0 trim, no helpers, Sony Dualshock 3 controller

 

 

 

For trk file, see here.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Excellent MACADEMIC!!!! Thank you!

[Lange_666]

Lange_666, I am glad to hear, that I am not the only one, with this nummer of failed take-offs:music_whistling:.

Will try your instruktion, thanks.

The P51 is much more forgiving in the starting phase (for me at least).

I started to take a different approach because i started with 27% curved rudder and "very" smooth throttling and that didn't work for a meter.

Due to the flatness of the ruddercurve, there was not enough input to move the rudder but if i kept pushing it further in, the rudder ends up in the part where the curve goes up agressively. It little bit too much and the aircraft makes a sweep. If you counter that by opposite rudder, there's again not enough rudder input because you're at the flat part of the ruddercurve again.

If your opposite rudder then enter the steep part of the curve which becomes rapidly steeper and steeper, mostly there's an agressive swing to the other side because all of a sudden there's too much opposite rudder.

You then start going from left to right and start drifting and then it's all over.

At first i didn't understand why and added ruddercurve ending up at 27% (started out at 15% actually like i have on the P-51) but it only made things worse.

 

With the ruddercurve set to zero, the rudderinput is a lot bigger from the beginning and adding full throttle (or over 2800rpm) gives you a lot more control and then you can take off like in Macademic's video (after a few try's at least...LOL).

 

What the P-51 concerns, i have set the rudder to 15% curve. Lower makes it too responsive on take-off.

[MACADEMIC]

I started to take a different approach because i started with 27% curved rudder and "very" smooth throttling and that didn't work for a meter.

Due to the flatness of the ruddercurve, there was not enough input to move the rudder but if i kept pushing it further in, the rudder ends up in the part where the curve goes up agressively. It little bit too much and the aircraft makes a sweep. If you counter that by opposite rudder, there's again not enough rudder input because you're at the flat part of the ruddercurve again.

If your opposite rudder then enter the steep part of the curve which becomes rapidly steeper and steeper, mostly there's an agressive swing to the other side because all of a sudden there's too much opposite rudder.

You then start going from left to right and start drifting and then it's all over.

At first i didn't understand why and added ruddercurve ending up at 27% (started out at 15% actually like i have on the P-51) but it only made things worse.

 

With the ruddercurve set to zero, the rudderinput is a lot bigger from the beginning and adding full throttle (or over 2800rpm) gives you a lot more control and then you can take off like in Macademic's video (after a few try's at least...LOL).

 

What the P-51 concerns, i have set the rudder to 15% curve. Lower makes it too responsive on take-off.

 

Should probably add that the technique mentioned in the handbook was not exactly the one used by Erich Brunotte and his fellow pilots in his squadron - they didn't have manuals at the time and flew by feel and experience, and to them the Dora 9 more resembled a 109 than the A series 190s. So, they let the tail come up (both techniques seem to work fine also in DCS).

 

Here's a very rare video of Dora 9s during take off in horrendous conditions starting at around 2:14. As you can see, both techniques are used.

 

MAC

 

P.S.: I have 15% curve on rudder, with dead zone at 10.

 

Edited August 23, 2014 by MACADEMIC

[fjacobsen]

Here is take off and landing video.

 

No take off assistance.

Curves for aileron,elevator and rudder at 15.

 

I know that I initially come in too fast.

 

 

FinnJ

Edited August 23, 2014 by fjacobsen

[IvanK]

 

Here's a very rare video of Dora 9s during take off in horrendous conditions starting at around 2:14. As you can see, both techniques are used.

 

MAC

 

P.S.: I have 15% curve on rudder, with dead zone at 10.

 

 

Gulp Contaminated runway ops with D9s !! one nearly came to grief.

[Nereid]

Lange_666, I am glad to hear, that I am not the only one, with this nummer of failed take-offs:music_whistling:.

Will try your instruktion, thanks.

The P51 is much more forgiving in the starting phase (for me at least).

 

You are not alone. About 30 attemps so far and none of them were successfull. For me it seems to be extremly difficult to translate from "brake steering" to "rudder steering" and to not forget to get the stick centered AT THE RIGHT TIME. This bird just won't behave as I expect and then I'm overdoing inputs way to much. Well... that my conclusion at the moment.

 

The 0% rudder curvation may do the trick for me. I will test this today.

 

Most of the time it seems that just after centering the stick the Dora rolls to the left (causing my left wing to crash). Is this observaton correct or just bad luck/incompetence?

[Lange_666]

If you center the stick, you have left roll due to the torque of the engine.

Therefore add a little right roll input to compensate.