Which chopper to start with?

[CookPassBabtridge]

Hi

 

I appreciate I've put this in the Black Shark forum so might get biased answers :) However, I am pretty new to flight simming, have spent some time learning the A-10C, we met, fell in love... taking it slow.

 

But I can't help it. I need some spice, and after I saw several youtube videos of people destroying hundreds of thousands of pounds / dollars worth of helicopters, I thought "that looks hard, I'll try that" :D

 

So recent sale and all, I bought the Huey, Mi-8 and the Black Shark. I want to learn on the most choppery chopper, as in the helicopter that will translate the most to other, 'standard' helicopters. I am guessing this will be the Huey or the Mi-8, rather than the Black Shark and its specialised systems?

 

I amazed myself by actually managing to take off in the ka-50, then I think maybe I was meant to set trim, started wobbling, and then possibly set the engines to idle, because I fell out of the sky. Was pretty awesome whilst I was up there though, especially in the DK2 :)

 

So yeah anyway I am thinking of starting with the Huey, what do you guys think?

[Buzzles]

Huey is the most "standard" of the rotary wings we've got.

 

KA-50 is obviously quite special due to its coaxial rotor and autopilot. It's very different.

 

I've not got the Mi-8, but I gather it is fairly friendly with auto pilot channels on, but a difficult beast with them off.

[molevitch]

Hi

 

I appreciate I've put this in the Black Shark forum so might get biased answers :) However, I am pretty new to flight simming, have spent some time learning the A-10C, we met, fell in love... taking it slow.

 

But I can't help it. I need some spice, and after I saw several youtube videos of people destroying hundreds of thousands of pounds / dollars worth of helicopters, I thought "that looks hard, I'll try that" :D

 

So recent sale and all, I bought the Huey, Mi-8 and the Black Shark. I want to learn on the most choppery chopper, as in the helicopter that will translate the most to other, 'standard' helicopters. I am guessing this will be the Huey or the Mi-8, rather than the Black Shark and its specialised systems?

 

I amazed myself by actually managing to take off in the ka-50, then I think maybe I was meant to set trim, started wobbling, and then possibly set the engines to idle, because I fell out of the sky. Was pretty awesome whilst I was up there though, especially in the DK2 :)

 

So yeah anyway I am thinking of starting with the Huey, what do you guys think?

Hi there CPB,

 

If I was you, I would aim to master the KA50. In many ways, it is the easier model to start with, it has many automated trim systems, unlike the Huey or to some extent the MI-8. Also, if you like combat, the KA50 gives you supreme control, map systems, etc, plus the challenge of running it all yourself, no "co-pilots", and you can work efficiently with wingman (sometimes...). Black Shark/BS2 has been around a while as well, but I still love getting in and systematically taking out some armour from a stand off position, before going in to mop up soft targets with guns and rockets. FUN!

 

I also have to say I love the Huey and the Mi8. Comparisons? The Huey is like an old MG sports car, the Mi8 is a Volvo, and the KA50 is like an Aston Martin.

 

All fun for different jobs.

 

Enjoy the lot of them. Best get some good control hardware, check the forums here for helo cyclics, pedals, collectives. You will want them!

 

Good luck! and RTFM!

 

M

[Buznee]

you've made the correct choice. The huey is the simplest with systems and the trickiest to fly. It is a conventional heli without augmented stability. You can focus on flying. Once you can fly the huey well, the transition to the others will be easier in terma of pilotage.

[BitMaster]

The Huey is maybe the most classic Helicopter in DCS and will fly like most people think a Heli should fly once they mastered it.

 

The Mi-8 is a bit more like a milk truck, its incredibly fast but needs attention when slow and landings/take-offs.

 

The Ka-50 is different, it really is. The trim needs attention and some hours to get used to, we all went through that part LoL.

 

Once you got the Ka mastered there is nothing you could ask more from a chopper, fast agile deadly forgiving and it will fly you home when both others are a piece of burning junk. The protected cockpit alone saves lifes.

 

When you get a head on shot in the huey you know how well protected you are in a Kamov :=)

 

 

The Huey is maybe the most fun when flown as intended, soft targets !

No heavy AAA and little to no SAM, that's not what she was made for.

 

The Ka gives you more possible online slots with good action. Most servers and missions have the Ka included. A very powerfull toy and she makes lots of points, usually more than any A-10C or whatever you pick, the Ka is THE KILLER in DCS, no doubt. i just killed 27 targets with 2 losses. If there would not be the bugs ( HUD repair, Laser worn out etc..) you could repair & fly almost forever.... well, sometimes even the Kamov gets a bad hit and falls to the ground..haha.

 

Some servers also do offer Huey and Mi-8 transport tasks and some even offer offensive tasks but that is not as often as Ka slots etc...

 

Bit

[Devrim]

Yes, if I were you I'd start with Huey too.

 

In my opinion, Huey is a traditional helicopter. You'll learn how to fly a real helicopter. I've learned Ka-50 since 2011, but I realized that I thought I knew how to fly a heli until met with Huey.

 

Learn to fly Huey, and try Mi-8. Ka-50 will be easier machine to fly for you.

[BitMaster]

in short: KAMOV !!!

[scrtagnt69]

Hands down the Huey will teach you the fundamentals of actually having to maintain control of your aircraft none of the flight stabilization aids found in KA-50.

 

The real question is do you want to be in control and be a true PIC or do want to sit back and enjoy the ride ?

 

The Old Girl will aggravate you to the point of no return and then one day you find her sweet spot and you will not want to be without her.

 

Best wishes

Edited September 9, 2014 by scrtagnt69

[Yurgon]

I love the Ka-50 and the Huey both. :)

 

I've been thinking for a while which one to advocate, but honestly - with these options, you can't go wrong. :smartass:

 

The Mi-8 is another awesome module, it just doesn't appeal to me as much as the other two. My experience was that I could fly and control the Mi-8 fairly well (as in: without constantly killing myself) after I had flown the other two. I don't think it would work the other way around.

[Rogue Trooper]

Start with the Huey... it is the most rudimentary helicopter there is ... umm anywhere.

This thing will teach you how to fly helicopters, get good at it.

Fly ground level in amongst buildings... get faster and get tighter.

learn how to control the twitch!

 

After the Huey I suggest the MI-8 which is just a few more switches and a lot more navigational aids to learn... sweet girl is the MI-8.

 

However after the Huey you could move onto the Kamov, she is a funny old girl and a deadly power house to boot. Trim and APs can be problematic.

If you are good in the Huey you will be good in the Kamov without APs.

But the APs are critical components to this chopper and must be learned.

[Home Fries]

Another +1 for starting with the Huey. You will become a better helicopter stick in general with the Huey, and after about 4 hours of steep learning curve the proverbial light will come on. Learning the Huey is good for learning rotary wing in general, and the skills will translate to the Ka-50.

 

Besides, with a simpler avionics suite in the Huey, you can concentrate on flying without worrying about how the trim works with the autopilot (there is no autopilot in the Huey except for the guy next to you) and you get a much better "seat of the pants" feel with the Huey.

 

After that you can go to the Ka-50 and learn the systems. You'll find that the systems in the Ka-50 are easier to learn once the flying part becomes second nature.

[Gloom Demon]

If you like blowing stuff up stick with the Black Shark. If you want a more traditional helicopter experience - Huey is great for that. The Mi-8 is bigger than the UH-1H and provides a different flying experience due to the need to really think ahead. Better yet - get them all :-)

[Raven Morpheus]

I don't see why people say the trim and autopilot in the Ka-50 can be a problem.

 

The Ka-50 was the first helicopter I tried in DCS, the other being the UH-1H, and once I had read a short page on how the trim/autopilot system works I can fly the Ka-50 quite easily. The trick is to press the trim button, steer, release the trim button, and remember the autopilot will now have a new heading and will turn back to it if you change direction without re-trimming. Altitude hold works in a similar way, but I've not noticed the autopilot returning to an altitude if you change altitude without holding the collective brake button whilst doing so. The only thing that annoys me about the Ka-50, and it may be autopilot related, is that when on auto-hover searching for targets and/or lining up Shkval for a shot the Ka-50 does tend to drift/rotate/turn rather annoyingly at times thus making it awkward to move the Shkval sight from one target to the next.

 

I find the Ka-50 far easier to fly than the UH-1 though, but (apart from the weapons hard-points being incorrect for US UH-1's (which most of the skins available are), it's a Vietnam era RAAF Bushranger configuration!) I find the UH-1 the most fun to fly and a welcome change from the fly to point A, switch on auto-hover, find target(s), shoot, fly to point B, repeat and rinse, nature of the Ka-50.

 

Although combat in the UH-1 is a pita for me and I still find hovering/landing difficult at times (read most of the time).

 

So, in summary, not having flown the Mi-8, if you want old school chopper action stick on some Wagner, Rolling Stones, or CCR and go with the Huey.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Raven Morpheus

[SilentGun]

I actually think the mi-8 is a "harder helo to fly" without the autopilot of corse

[CookPassBabtridge]

Hehe I love this place. You guys are awesome, didn't expect this many replies! Awesome dog is required

 

 

I will work through the replies as they come up in order on the reply thingy:

 

@ SilentGun - I must admit I hadn't thought about autopilots and all that jazz for helos. Is this something you find yourself using a lot? My aim is to get good at flying first, same as with the A-10C. I have done very little combat as, being new to flight sims in general, I really want to be a good pilot first. What do you find yourself using AP for?

 

@ Raven Morpheus - Wow thanks for all the advice! I remember reading an old flight sim web review of BS and the complexity of the trim system was something that intrigued me. He mentioned that ideally you need a force feedback joystick as this is what you would experience in the heli. Are there any decent ones? I had rather thought my HOTAS Warthog would be pretty universal :) Re: wobbly slew, I am getting used to that in the A-10C with the HOTAS being a bit dodgy. Sounds like transferable skills!

 

In the Huey I am really looking forward to some rocket attacks and watching those lovely fireballs going off, definitely with some Wagner :D

 

@ Gloom Demon - too late, I already bought them all :D Its a case of prioritising which one to play first. I do love an aircraft binge, tastes sooo sweet! I am thinking my (limited) TGP experience in the A-10 will probably be transferable to the BS?

 

@ Home Fries - this is what I am hoping for. I am always a fan of learning "first principles", and knowing why you do something, why its important. I also like the idea that pilots who were used to older style choppers would have got in something like the BS and gone "feck me, this is different". Experiencing that sense of technological progress and powahhhh :chair:

 

@ Rogue Trooper - similar to above, thats what I am hoping for, the "ground up" method! As for piloting a huey through buildings, ever since I saw the Running Man that was on the cards :) : http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/cmarez/clips/Running_Man.mov/view

 

@ Yurgon - nice to see you again mate :) The thing with the Mi-8 is that with the Rift, having that guy perched over your right shoulder is actually quite creepy lol. But I love the panoramic cockpit and all the russian text everywhere. I can't remember, does the Mi-8 have tutorials yet?

 

@ scrtagnt69 - the second one! My aim is to be good at flying first, and blow stuff up second. I regret not starting YEARS ago with stuff like FSX. I picked DCS as a beginning point very recently because the aircraft are so well modeled and SEXEHHHHH.

 

@ BitMaster - Hehe thanks man. Its a tough call. I played about with the Ka-50 last night and it was quite intoxicating just doing a vertical lift off. I also bought the printed manual! I think I will fire up the Huey though given the long term aspirations. If he doesn;t get my pulse going, maybe I will go back to Sasha (thats what I am going to call her, the Black Shark Betty :) Unless she has a name of course....). "A very powerfull toy" - heh you make a compelling argument!

 

@ Devrim - that is looking like the likely outcome. WOPPA WOPPA WOPPA love that blade sound :)

 

Right, now on to page 1....

Edited September 10, 2014 by CookPassBabtridge

[CookPassBabtridge]

@ Buzzles - do you think learning with the help of AP is a valid way to go, or is it better to go "all me" at first? Though I understand when using the Ka-50 as a standoff 'platform' you will probably be auto-hovering? Is that something that exists on the real one BTW?

 

@ Molevitch - this is the big thing for me. I LIKE hardware, and tend to fritter cash on it quite badly. I have a new rig lined up, a cockpit, maybe even a Cyberith Virtualizer for using with my DK2... if a good, affordable collective / throttle existed out there I would probably buy one straight away, but they all look to be ridiculous money (I know, daft thing to say given previous sentence) in lieu of having the skills to build you own. I've got a HOTAS Warthog, was hoping that would cover all bases... but .. now I have GEAR LUST :D Do you know of any collectives you'd recommend? Also, is a cyclic that different from a joystick, beyond the very long shaft (hehe) ?

 

@ Buznee - that's looking like the way I will go, unless the Ka-50 seduces me again with her high, sleek cockpit lines ;)

 

Once again, amazing replies all round and REPS. I love that so many of you guys have enjoyed this for so many years and still find time for the Black Shark, it makes me feel like my purchases with DCS have been a good investment :)

Edited September 10, 2014 by CookPassBabtridge

[Fishbreath]

The Ka-50 is my favorite DCS platform by a long shot. Start with the Huey, though—that's rotorcraft 101, and after flying the Huey, you'll realize how much of the pilot workload the Ka-50 takes on for you.

 

Also, the Ka-50's voice warning system is Kvetching Katya, I've decided. :P

[CookPassBabtridge]

The Ka-50 is my favorite DCS platform by a long shot. Start with the Huey, though—that's rotorcraft 101, and after flying the Huey, you'll realize how much of the pilot workload the Ka-50 takes on for you.

 

Also, the Ka-50's voice warning system is Kvetching Katya, I've decided. :P

 

hehe I like that "watch EKRAN" she goes on about. I am assuming Ekran is one of my hilarious pilot buddies who does CRAZY DANCES when he is drunk :)

 

Yeah thats a good point with progressing to the Ka-50, I would really like to feel that sense of technological progress a bit like going from the sabre to the A-10C. Sabre: Nudge nudge nudge nudge trim trim trim trim nudge *look down* SHIT nudge nudge. A-10C - *PING* aahhhhhhh

[Flagrum]

If you really want to learn to fly a helo, start with the Huey. The Huey is like a go-cart - no assists, no help, just you and the helo. "Bare Metal". And similar to a go-cart, it makes fun with NO END, seriously.

 

The AP of the Mi-8 and also of the Ka-50 are there and are used to help and support you. It is like all those electric gimmics in todays cars - servo steering, assisted braking, etc. They take away a tad bit of your "autonomy", but if you want to transport stuff from A to B, taking several hours, you will be really thankfull that those helpers exist. The AP of the Ka-50 is even more evolved than the Mi-8 system. While the latter is more of an stabilization system which keeps the helo just where you want it to go, the former actually flys the helo from A to B like you would expect it from an AP. Here, too, it has a real purpose. The Ka-50 is a weapon platform with only one guy in it. That is a lot of work for the pilot - to fly, to survive AND also to cause harm to the opponent. You probably don't use the AP all the time to it's full extend, but there are several operating modes and sub-modes that can help you in various stages of your sortie.

 

But while it makes sense to exploit the capabilities of each helo as much as possible, you probably will appreciate it more (and understand their operation quicker) if you already know how it is to fly without them.

[msalama]

What Flagrum very well stated. The Huey is in a way - and no offence meant - a BEATEN UP LADA helicopter in the sense of there being nothing but you and sheer iron, so you just learn to steer her without gimmicks - or you don't. An excellent beginner's choice I'd say!

[Buzzles]

What Flagrum and msalama said.

 

Flying the Huey will teach you how helicopters actually fly, something you need to know to not only understand what the AP does in the others, but also how to fly if the AP fails in the others :)

[CookPassBabtridge]

Thanks again chaps :)

 

So I had my first trip in the Huey. I did my usual - run through the guided startup routine, get told that's the end, THEN TAKE OFF ANYWAY:devil:

 

It took bloody ages to figure out the start button is keyboard-only, hunted all round the cockpit for about half an hour, and of course as I was doing it in the rift I couldn't read the instructions :) I remapped the starter as the ENG OPER IGN - R switch on my warthog throttle instead.

 

So I managed to get it in the air, I flew around a bit, WOW is it ever good in the rift. The sense of altitude and movement is amazing even on my rather underpowered rig. I think I used the force trim button right - do you press it to make it remember your current setting or something?

 

Then I tried to land :) Bled off speed, canceled the rotation with some rudder, then wasn't sure if I should be decreasing collective or throttle to descend. Whatever I did, it was wrong because I bounced it off a very low detail building, making nice fireball colours, and this upset a man who said "You're breaking my helicopter" :( Sad times. Then it punished me by incurring a fear of heights reaction by teleporting me to an above-plane view of a C-130 (?). Seriously brings back skydiving-type feelings when it does that, awesome. They should make a skydiving sim in the rift.

 

My rudders seem to jitter too, like holding them to the left and they are springing back right on their own, making the Huey wobble. Thats odd. Going to update my drivers I think.

 

Anyway first encounter was really good fun, some part of my brain THINKS it might quickly get the hang of it. Another part is laughing at that part :D

 

Can you turn the other pilot off? He tanks my frame rate in the rift for some reason.

Edited September 10, 2014 by CookPassBabtridge

[CookPassBabtridge]

If you really want to learn to fly a helo, start with the Huey. The Huey is like a go-cart - no assists, no help, just you and the helo. "Bare Metal". And similar to a go-cart, it makes fun with NO END, seriously.

 

The AP of the Mi-8 and also of the Ka-50 are there and are used to help and support you. It is like all those electric gimmics in todays cars - servo steering, assisted braking, etc. They take away a tad bit of your "autonomy", but if you want to transport stuff from A to B, taking several hours, you will be really thankfull that those helpers exist. The AP of the Ka-50 is even more evolved than the Mi-8 system. While the latter is more of an stabilization system which keeps the helo just where you want it to go, the former actually flys the helo from A to B like you would expect it from an AP. Here, too, it has a real purpose. The Ka-50 is a weapon platform with only one guy in it. That is a lot of work for the pilot - to fly, to survive AND also to cause harm to the opponent. You probably don't use the AP all the time to it's full extend, but there are several operating modes and sub-modes that can help you in various stages of your sortie.

 

But while it makes sense to exploit the capabilities of each helo as much as possible, you probably will appreciate it more (and understand their operation quicker) if you already know how it is to fly without them.

 

Yes that all makes sense, I guess its the same as with the A-10C and creating as stable a platform as possible. It also helps when that platform has a high badassery quotient :)

 

You probably get asked this all the time, but how did you get all the badges? They are pretty sweet.

 

Babtridge

[Flagrum]

You probably get asked this all the time, but how did you get all the badges? They are pretty sweet.

Heh, thanks ...

 

I stitched them with my own bleeding fingers, of course! *COUGH IFoundThemWithGoogle COUGH*

[CookPassBabtridge]

Heh, thanks ...

 

I stitched them with my own bleeding fingers, of course! *COUGH IFoundThemWithGoogle COUGH*

 

Excellent all good pilots should know how to stitch :D lol I thought you had gone through some special training, like the Maple Leaf Mission patches (I think) you can get :) I must do those one day....