DCS: MiG-21Bis landing

[Mrgud]

I wouldn't suggest touching down that slow. 340 kph is plenty slow enough to not risk damaging anything, and at 250 kph it'll be much harder to see the runway around your nose. Assuming you keep your vertical velocity under control when you touch down, your gear will easily handle anything under like 400 kph without an issue, so it's better to get close to that to lower your AoA keep your visibility in case there's obstructions on the runway.

 

Yeah, I know what you are saying. I agree that at 250 km/h you will not see the runway in front of you, but that is the moment of touch down and it doesn't last long. That high AoA is used to bleed off my vertical speed . I don't approach with AoA at 15 degrees , I like fairly steep approach with ver. speed 10 m/s so I do see the runway very well. I usually land with 10 degrees, but if I want that my nosewheel stays lifted after touch down, I do as I explained before. I know that people use higher speeds for landings, even around 400 km/h, but it seems very unrealistic to me. And as far as obstructions on the runway are concerned, it's quite difficult to avoid any of them when you are in the middle of landing a rocket like MiG-21! :joystick:

[QuiGon]

Over the time I'm flying the Fishbed now I figured out for me, that when it comes to landing this bird the most important thing is weight. If you have less than 1000l or even 500l of fuel left landing becomes really easy.

[Mrgud]

I would say that the most important thing is vertical speed, but weight is certainly important factor also.

[QuiGon]

I would say that the most important thing is vertical speed, but weight is certainly important factor also.

 

You're right ;)

[CoBlue]

 

 

And how do we know that the boundary layer control system-BLC is operating normally?

How much % engine power does BLC use?

Edited September 18, 2015 by CoBlue

[PiedDroit]

Most importantly you need to keep throttle (LND position) until touchdown, otherwise the blown flaps are not operating and you loose a lot of lift.

Approach speed 340 or above work well for me, with a shallow touchdown angle (only a few m/s vert. speed).

 

Edit: to answer post above, how much %: don't know, throttle in LND position at minimum.

How do you know its working: you're not sinking like a brick

;]

 

edit2: a good way to experiment it is to set yourself in level flight, not too low, will full flaps and gears.

then decrease power until you drop drastically. This is when the BLC stopped working

Edited September 18, 2015 by PiedDroit

[CoBlue]

Most importantly you need to keep throttle (LND position) until touchdown, otherwise the blown flaps are not operating and you loose a lot of lift.

Approach speed 340 or above work well for me, with a shallow touchdown angle (only a few m/s vert. speed).

Edit: to answer post above, how much %: don't know, throttle in LND position at minimum.

How do you know its working: you're not sinking like a brick

;]

edit2: a good way to experiment it is to set yourself in level flight, not too low, will full flaps and gears.

then decrease power until you drop drastically. This is when the BLC stopped working

I don't have any problems at all landing the 21.

What I want to identify is this: "make certain that the BLC system is operating normally" as per manual. Any gauge, light, telling me that the system is not operating normally?

[Ohgr]

@Ohgr

 

Nice landing, but still not perfectly smooth like I would like to achive (but never do :)). What was you vertical speed?

 

My usual landing is at about 300-320 kmh, 1m/s. I'm trying to reduce my speed but it seems I'm always too heavy. :D

 

This was a long time ago so i don't remember the details. Did a few last night and what i do is the last 50 feet or so i reduce the descent to just below 0 on the VSI and gently touch down. It takes alot of practice but is worth it :thumbup:

[PiedDroit]

I don't have any problems at all landing the 21.

What I want to identify is this: "make certain that the BLC system is operating normally" as per manual. Any gauge, light, telling me that the system is not operating normally?

 

This wasn't specifically for you.

And you answered your question yourself, the answer is in the manual.

If it's not, then experiment. I personaly use the sink rate as indicator ;)

[FeistyLemur]

Over the time I'm flying the Fishbed now I figured out for me, that when it comes to landing this bird the most important thing is weight. If you have less than 1000l or even 500l of fuel left landing becomes really easy.

 

It's a fun challenge though to land with 2200l of fuel and 4 missiles.

[kingfish]

And as far as obstructions on the runway are concerned, it's quite difficult to avoid any of them when you are in the middle of landing a rocket like MiG-21! :joystick:

 

Full burner and go around. And dump flares for giggles.

 

But seriously, if you aren't able to get a good look at the runway/runup/nearby taxiways during the last 15-20s or so of your descent, you are not going fast enough. The visibility thing is less about staying on the runway (which is difficult but totally possible when totally blind), but more about making sure there isn't someone else in the way as you come screaming in.

[Ohgr]

Made this video for you fellas

[Mrgud]

But seriously, if you aren't able to get a good look at the runway/runup/nearby taxiways during the last 15-20s or so of your descent, you are not going fast enough. The visibility thing is less about staying on the runway (which is difficult but totally possible when totally blind), but more about making sure there isn't someone else in the way as you come screaming in.

 

Yes, it would be dangerous but I don't strangle the aircraft at the edge of stalling (for 15-20 sec.) during the approach. I like steeper approach so I can see the runway, and high AoA is just for reducing vertical speed second or two before touch down.

 

I don't have much time for flying lately, but few night's ago I took MiG for a spin just to experiment with the different approaches and higher speeds. This video is the result. It's the same flight with four landings, cut in pieces so you don't have to watch panoramic parts of the flight. Sorry for such bad edit of the movie, really didn't have time for better.

 

 

For Grunf; in the third attempt, I was too low so I end up touching the runway too far from the threshold, and even had a little bit rough touch down, but AoA was almost 15 degrees so I managed to keep nose-wheel in the air.

 

I have looked at the manual to see what Dolphin has to say about landing, and my slow speed theory wasn't advisable. Despite the fact that touching the ground at around 260 km/h causes less stress on the wheels than higher speeds, at high AoA and slow speed above the runway, it's very likely to stall the plane and hit the runway too hard - so this could end your pilot career and made you an office hack - as he said.

[grunf]

Nice landings, Ohgr and Mrgud! :thumbup:

 

 

For Grunf; in the third attempt, I was too low so I end up touching the runway too far from the threshold, and even had a little bit rough touch down, but AoA was almost 15 degrees so I managed to keep nose-wheel in the air.

 

I have looked at the manual to see what Dolphin has to say about landing, and my slow speed theory wasn't advisable. Despite the fact that touching the ground at around 260 km/h causes less stress on the wheels than higher speeds, at high AoA and slow speed above the runway, it's very likely to stall the plane and hit the runway too hard - so this could end your pilot career and made you an office hack - as he said.

I must say I was never comfortable with much less than 300 km/h touchdown.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Nice landings, Ohgr and Mrgud! :thumbup:

 

 

I must say I was never comfortable with much less than 300 km/h touchdown.

 

For good reason; as Rodd points out, the manual states you shouldn't commence the flare with less than 330km/h. You should touch down between 280-260km/h.

 

Mrgud had the right approach angle, but got too slow.

 

Ohgr had good speed control, but the approach angle was too shallow.

[Bidartarra]

On the Hotas X Hotas, there's a middle position for the throttle that roughly corresponds to the landing position for the 21 throttle.

I reduce throttle to this position and do my flare usually it works very good.

I have a video of it if some of you are interested.

 

Try to find this position on your throttle and remember it, it will help a lot.

[kingfish]

Try to find this position on your throttle and remember it, it will help a lot.

 

In my experience this setting is usually around 80% throttle, though it does vary depending on your exact load as you land (it will be higher with more fuel and external stores).

[gospadin]

Here's my progress after one month of DCS. It's not perfect, but this is what my acceptable landings are at right now. I've had some that were much smoother than this, but this represents the minimum of what I can pull off 95% of the time now.

 

...

 

By "somewhat acceptable" you mean excellent. Well within the acceptable parameters.

[FeistyLemur]

By "somewhat acceptable" you mean excellent. Well within the acceptable parameters.

 

Well, I guess it felt more precarious than it looked when I recorded it. And there was some bounce on touchdown. Now that I've done a lot more landings I feel much more comfortable with it.

 

Decided to try the fc3 aircraft after all, boy are they easy to land in comparison after learning with the 21 first.

[grunf]

Decided to try the fc3 aircraft after all, boy are they easy to land in comparison after learning with the 21 first.

During my first landing with Su-27, after doing a lot of MiG-21 landings, I was wondering why the plane refuses to touch down. Then I realized I have already landed. :D

[FeistyLemur]

During my first landing with Su-27, after doing a lot of MiG-21 landings, I was wondering why the plane refuses to touch down. Then I realized I have already landed. :D

 

Yeah, it lands so nose high while still seeing the runway, it's a weird experience. My back wheels were on the runway and the nose started coming down and I was like, what the hell is this...

 

First 21 landing - Rolling down the runway like a log on fire scraping the wings elevators and rudder off, with a generally sad look on my face.

 

First Su 27 landing - Huh, that was it? I guess I landed.

Edited September 28, 2015 by FeistyLemur

[grunf]

First 21 landing - Rolling down the runway like a log on fire scraping the wings elevators and rudder off, with a generally sad look on my face.

 

First Su 27 landing - Huh, that was it? I guess I landed.

LOL sounds familiar. :D

[OverStratos]

If you follow the instructions of the flight manual to the letter, and I´m not saying it´s easy, you should land without losing the runway.

 

You need to maintain 400km/h and stay above 300m at least until the far beacon, do not use the airbrake while landing and never put the throttle under 78%. Best landing speed is between 300-325km/h. Put the runway in the lower part of the sight.

 

That´s the way in which I have had the best results. (as the manual):)

[HugePanic]

i just came up with a new approach angle.. what do you think? :pilotfly:

 

${1}

Edited October 12, 2015 by HugePanic

[Svend_Dellepude]

If you follow the instructions of the flight manual to the letter, and I´m not saying it´s easy, you should land without losing the runway.

 

You need to maintain 400km/h and stay above 300m at least until the far beacon, do not use the airbrake while landing and never put the throttle under 78%. Best landing speed is between 300-325km/h. Put the runway in the lower part of the sight.

 

That´s the way in which I have had the best results. (as the manual):)

 

+1

Follow the instructions of the manual and you can't go wrong.

Spend an hour doing touch n goes and you should be pretty confident.