Interview with Leatherneck Studios

[Spectrum Legacy]

Of all the options F-104 would be great, although rather specialized plane. F-5 not bad option either, greater scale of use in DCS I think. Or the gracious P-38 (preferably L version equipped with aileron boosters & airbrake, unlike compressibility-plagued earlier versions).

 

One can only wish...

[ff4life4]

I wish they would just say what there making next officially. It's not like they haven't made up their minds yet.

 

Everyone is going crazy :bounce:

[kontiuka]

The F-5e being called the Tiger II, in honour of which plane was it named?

Found this ...

 

Named to honour the well-known Skoshi Tiger Unit that was formed solely to test out the F-5A during the Vietnam War, the F-5E Tiger II, just like its predecessor, instantly became an enormous hit on the export market.

[NaCH]

As much as I love the F-104, it wouldn't be a fair fight against a MiG-21. The huge majority of Starfighters can't even carry a medium range radar missiles of any kind. Only the handful of Italian F-104Ss were cleared for Sparrows.

 

F-104 would be even less "relevant" in DCS than the MiG-21 is. The F-5 is better as direct opposition to the MiG-21.

 

?! actually the F-104 is the perfect match.

Is like the M III or Nasher.

 

If you think that the "medium" range of the MIG 21 is semiactive and engage envelope of 10 km.

All this if you are able to have a stable lock and you don't loose into the ground.

 

This is an example:

 

Edited October 30, 2014 by NaCH

[KewlerMouh]

The F-14 would be insanely great! I hope for a variant with LTS pod, so that it can also be used for ground attack and lasing LMavs and GBUs for the Hornets ;-)

 

 

Yeah, Bombcat!. I go for it. If it gets a F14, a dream comes true and denounce my own BISON proposal :)

[thawall]

Interview with Leatherneck Studios

 

As for the RIO discussions for single player, I don't think that there has to be such a complex AI... With a good input setup and switchable pits it should work pretty well.

 

I would imagine that when I switch from the front to the back a special modifier key is toggled on so that my HOTAS button- and axis mapping matches the pit. So it would basically switch to RIO mode.

 

In Single-Player I would still be able to fly the plane from the RIO seat, because it makes no sense communicating my intentions to some sort of pilot AI. Additionally one could activate some simple Autopilot modes, which must not even be realistic as we would assume, the pilot in the front seat is handling the plane. E.g. a recovery mode as in the MiG and a simple follow waypoint option should provide a good start.

 

This setup also has an addional benefit: I could use the modifier key for the RIO pit also from the front seat if I just want to activate switches. As we would have no visual feedback, the RIO in this case could just respond with: on/off

 

So for me its all about the handling and how fluid I can switch seats and activate functions in the pit.

 

If you want to have it more realisitc you would simply have to fly with a buddy ;-)

 

(Which would also be awesome! I know ppl, who are not all to much into DCS but who would take the back seat in an instant for some MiG hunting) ;-)

Edited October 30, 2014 by thawall

[QuiGon]

Personally I really don't like the idea of seat switching. I would rather have an AI Pilot/RIO or an MP-only aircraft than seat switching with virtual autopilot if the pilot seat is empty.

[Flagrum]

As for the RIO discussions for single player, I don't think that there has to be such a complex AI... With a good input setup and switchable pits it should work pretty well.

 

I would imagine that when I switch from the front to the back a special modifier key is toggled on so that my HOTAS button- and axis mapping matches the pit. So it would basically switch to RIO mode.

 

In Single-Player I would still be able to fly the plane from the RIO seat, because it makes no sense communicating my intentions to some sort of pilot AI. Additionally one could activate some simple Autopilot modes, which must not even be realistic as we would assume, the pilot in the front seat is handling the plane. E.g. a recovery mode as in the MiG and a simple follow waypoint option should provide a good start.

 

This setup also has an addional benefit: I could use the modifier key for the RIO pit also from the front seat if I just want to activate switches. As we would have no visual feedback, the RIO in this case could just respond with: on/off

 

So for me its all about the handling and how fluid I can switch seats and activate functions in the pit.

 

If you want to have it more realisitc you would simply have to fly with a buddy ;-)

 

(Which would also be awesome! I know ppl, who are not all to much into DCS but who would take the back seat in an instant for some MiG hunting) ;-)

Using a modifier key to access the other cockpit - this is actually a brilliant idea, imo!

 

The default modifiers like shift, alt, etc. are usually already all in use somewhere in a standard cockpit, so it would have to be either a new modifier key or a separate cockpit function that just acts as modifier.

 

Using a regular, new modifier would be problematic if everything would be implemented by the standard mechanisms of the control mappings: each (relevant) function of the RIO would have to be duplicated for the pilot, with the additional modifier key. Maybe not optimal?

 

Therefore probably better suited would be a new function "RIO Mode" that could be mapped to everyones liking. This would probably require some special coding (something like switching to the RIO control layer) and could probably not be implemented by (current) DCS control mapping mechanisms, but I think it should be doable.

 

But the idea as such is great - let the devs worry about those minor details like how to actually implement it. :o)

 

Personally I really don't like the idea of seat switching. I would rather have an AI Pilot/RIO or an MP-only aircraft than seat switching with virtual autopilot if the pilot seat is empty.

That is the idea of seat switching, as I see it: (somewhat rudimentary) AI takes over the empty place for the time being. This should definately be possible - but then the added possibilities of thawalls "RIO mode" modifier key would be awesome.

 

Or do you mean, if you enter the aircraft as RIO, all piloting should be done by an AI pilot? How should that work - the AI barely survives on their own and you want to trust your virtual life on them for a whole mission? :D

Edited October 30, 2014 by Flagrum

[xxJohnxx]

[...] an MP-only aircraft [...]

 

A MP only aircraft is not going to happen. They will have to design the aircraft mostly with single player in mind, because that's what the major group of customers play.

 

Back to the discussion though, if they do the RIO and pilot AI it will probably be similar to the UH-1H AI. When you switch to the other position the AI will take over the empty position. For the pilot position this probably would be one or two autopilot modes. For the RIO position it has to be more advanced to be usefull.

[MBot]

Regarding the seat switching. Imagine flying the F-15C in DCS and everytime you want to manipulate the radar you have to switch to a different cockpit. Might work as long as you are 40 NM out. But as soon as missiles start flying this will be completely unworkable.

 

In my opinion it would be a complete charade to have a realistic-to-the switch F-14 without a RIO. He is a part of the avionics package :)

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Regarding the seat switching. Imagine flying the F-15C in DCS and everytime you want to manipulate the radar you have to switch to a different cockpit. Might work as long as you are 40 NM out. But as soon as missiles start flying this will be completely unworkable.

 

In my opinion it would be a complete charade to have a realistic-to-the switch F-14 without a RIO. He is a part of the avionics package :)

 

Which, I imagine, the effort would be to streamline it the best they could.

[QuiGon]

That is the idea of seat switching, as I see it: (somewhat rudimentary) AI takes over the empty place for the time being. This should definately be possible - but then the added possibilities of thawalls "RIO mode" modifier key would be awesome.

 

Or do you mean, if you enter the aircraft as RIO, all piloting should be done by an AI pilot? How should that work - the AI barely survives on their own and you want to trust your virtual life on them for a whole mission? :D

 

I indeed meant that the player should be LOCKED to his seat for the duration of the flight (heli crewchiefs may be an exception) like it is in real life. Of course, usally you would fly as the pilot in SP so you have to trust your AI-RIO but it can be vice-versa as well. There are other flight sims where it is like that. In Rise of Flight (WW1 flight sim) for example you can play as the observer/rear-gunner in a two seater and let the AI fly. You can even play an entire SP-campaign as an Observer/rear-gunner.

Of course that won't happen since most people here have a different opinion on that ;)

Edited October 30, 2014 by QuiGon

[NaCH]

A MP only aircraft is not going to happen. They will have to design the aircraft mostly with single player in mind, because that's what the major group of customers play.

 

 

This is a real shame to me... the real fun is fighting against someone that will trick you or assume they will not always do the logic thing.

 

 

Back on topic:

 

I guess until we don't have a multicrew option we can only speculate. If the RIO is AI needs to be simple and fast with no hassle other than present the tactical situation... like a inset window with the radar scope and you select what to engage than the inset is off.

[chev255]

Looking back at this topic on simHQ http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3988192/all/I'm_going_to_make_this_very,_v

 

Cobra was already giving us clues months ago (the OP of that topic was asking for an F-4):

Never say never

Good stuff is coming, and that's all you'll get out of me

Fingers crossed :cry:

[xxJohnxx]

So can we say that it will be F-14?

 

We can say that we don't know anything. Nothing has been officially announced. Everything in this thread are rumours, wishes and assumptions.

[DocSigma]

The more I think about it, I'm not sure pilot/rio can be adequately represented. The sim would potentially have a very high "arcadey" feel to it, and this would detract from the very high level sim qualities one would expect from a DCS module. To be honest, Im hardly any expert on this (take all im saying with a grain of salt)and don't know all the functions and roles handled by the RIO, but how dissimilar are they to the pilots? How many inflight functions and systems can be handled by both individually without the other. I know ED is releasing the L39 and that has two person functionality, but the L39 isn't the F14. The L39 is a trainer aircraft with - what Id assume - a high degree of mirroring functionality between the front and back seats. I don't think an accurate comparison can be made in terms of just how implementation of the Pilot/rio relationship can be handled in the F14- if it was to ever be developed- between the two aircraft.

 

You can have a control modifier implemented that switched out control schemes when in the back seat, effectively letting the AI pilot the aircraft; but, as a previous poster pointed out, how muddled would that get when you are at the merge with an aggressor? The Pilot/Rio, I would think, have to work in complete split second harmony with one another to be effective - the pilot reacting to the constant updated picture being fed him/her by the RIO. I think this is the whole idea behind the pilot being hands off all things not associated with flight control, evasion, and firing of weapons. I just don't know when the rate at which simplay would increase come the merge how this would work effectively with the AI controlling either position.

 

Maybe they can implement some sort of split screen thing or dual monitor views so a single player can have eyes on both pits simultaneously, but that may exclude a fair amount of people because of hardware limitations.

 

I would love to see an F14 but I'd completely understand and wouldn't be surprised if any dev decided against it due to the complexity simulating a non-trainer combat aircraft - or helicopter - for that matter.

[TAW_Blaze]

**** it. It's gonna be the Cat! :megalol: :megalol: :megalol:

[thawall]

It may be difficult to find a effective and working compromize, but I'm sure there are solutions.

 

E.g. as already has been mentioned, the RIOs MFD might be shown as an overlay (similarly to what you would do if you need to put the MFDs of the A-10 onto a second screen).

 

When the overlay is active you can effectively control the radar screen and targeting of the RIO. This would give you much more control over the engagement than what would be possible with an AI and a cumbersome command interface.

 

No AI will be perfect, so I rather want the possibility to control all aspects of flying the plane and targetting weapons myself.

 

Also, don't forget, this is still a simulation software (I hate the word game) and not reality. This being said, the devs can always improve on the control efficiency for us virtual pilots without sacrificing realism.

 

You can consider having the Radar Screen as an overlay and controlling RIO functions from the front seat a cheat, but the way I see it I get the Pilot and RIO experience at the same time! Double the fun for me actually ;-)

 

Also, my understanding is, that the RIO problem stays the same for the F-4.

[Flagrum]

The more I think about it, I'm not sure pilot/rio can be adequately represented. The sim would potentially have a very high "arcadey" feel to it, and this would detract from the very high level sim qualities one would expect from a DCS module. To be honest, Im hardly any expert on this (take all im saying with a grain of salt)and don't know all the functions and roles handled by the RIO, but how dissimilar are they to the pilots? How many inflight functions and systems can be handled by both individually without the other. I know ED is releasing the L39 and that has two person functionality, but the L39 isn't the F14. The L39 is a trainer aircraft with - what Id assume - a high degree of mirroring functionality between the front and back seats. I don't think an accurate comparison can be made in terms of just how implementation of the Pilot/rio relationship can be handled in the F14- if it was to ever be developed- between the two aircraft.

 

You can have a control modifier implemented that switched out control schemes when in the back seat, effectively letting the AI pilot the aircraft; but, as a previous poster pointed out, how muddled would that get when you are at the merge with an aggressor? The Pilot/Rio, I would think, have to work in complete split second harmony with one another to be effective - the pilot reacting to the constant updated picture being fed him/her by the RIO. I think this is the whole idea behind the pilot being hands off all things not associated with flight control, evasion, and firing of weapons. I just don't know when the rate at which simplay would increase come the merge how this would work effectively with the AI controlling either position.

 

Maybe they can implement some sort of split screen thing or dual monitor views so a single player can have eyes on both pits simultaneously, but that may exclude a fair amount of people because of hardware limitations.

 

I would love to see an F14 but I'd completely understand and wouldn't be surprised if any dev decided against it due to the complexity simulating a non-trainer combat aircraft - or helicopter - for that matter.

It will never be perfect - as others already said it, there is a reason why there are sitting two humans in a Tomcat. And that can not be fully simulated by an AI and nor can a single human use both cockpits at the same time ... effectively. But still, I would rather have these crude mechanisms than not - and if it is just for fun or training if you like. The real real action would probably only be possible in multiplayer with two persons.

[Vitesse2l]

The clues have been too obvious. I'd like an F-14, though.

[FSKRipper]

It will never be perfect - as others already said it, there is a reason why there are sitting two humans in a Tomcat. And that can not be fully simulated by an AI and nor can a single human use both cockpits at the same time ... effectively. But still, I would rather have these crude mechanisms than not - and if it is just for fun or training if you like. The real real action would probably only be possible in multiplayer with two persons.

 

Absolutely right! Think of Tornado from Digital Integration. It is possible to handle that as it was in 1993. Sure the models are more complex now but the AI routines and the programming skills have also come a long way...

 

I would prefer a two seater like the Cat with a working (but not for everybody perfect) RIO UI than only single seaters. If it work's, maybe we will see an Apache in the far future. I think Flagrum would love to change his sig again :music_whistling:

[thawall]

Interview with Leatherneck Studios

 

We need a solution or we're ultimately going to miss out on a lot of interesting planes and choppers.

 

I'm also curious about Belsimteks approach for the Cobra.

[xxJohnxx]

I'm also curious about Belsimteks approach for the Cobra.

 

I guess that will be quit similar to the UH-1H copilot. Once cleared to engage, he will light everything up what he can engage. With some improvement it probably would work for the Cobra as well.

[Cyb0rg]

:surprise:

 

Leatherneck superseded.

 

F-14 Tomcat simulation on Steam.

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/328930/

 

Accurate cockpit representations.

Realistic enemy AI. New artificial intelligence is patterned after Soviet and Third world military doctrine.

Expanded Player-Wingman interaction. As flight leader, a wide range of interactive commands allow you to exercise complete tactical control of your wingman.

Terrain graphics. The latest 3-D terrain generating technology produces a vivid, detailed world based on digitized data from the U.S.G.S (United States Geological Survey)

Strike packages. Each mission requires you to integrate your F-14 with a variety of modern naval aircraft.

New enemy aircraft. Face the latest in Soviet fighter technology, the Su-27 and MiG-31. Use your Tomcat to hunt down "Bears", "Badgers" and "Backfires".

[FSKRipper]

Nice try pal. You can get F-117 and B-17 Flying fortress as well. But for what price... eye cancer? :megalol: