How is f-14 maneuverability?

[NORTHMAN]

 

An old slower video, but a great bit of insight into the F-14's maneuvering capability.

 

 

A really great old video. I really love the older documentary over the latest (in my opinion, the video show how its better and why! not saying its the best in the world every 20 seconds like the apache documentary I saw last week lol:doh:, I really love the apache/longbow by the way:D).

 

You can see the F-14 maneuvering, turning hard, make a climb to show how you can take advantage of the very large wings!

 

That said, the video is all about F-14 vs T-38 (supposed to be a very maneuverable aircraft), A-4 and F-4! It should be a great tactics against MiG-21 but I dont think you can do the trick you see in the video against the latest air superiority fighter! It look like: do it and you're dead.

 

Thanks again Woogey for the video links, the F-14 action I see there is very satisfying!:D

[mytai01]

The F-14 was designed to protect the fleet against Russian bombers and their cruise missiles with it AIM-54's. It's still a mediocre dog fighter compared to the newer fighters, but is was considered more maneuverable than the F-4.

[rrohde]

@ Dartuil:

 

It's not as simple as that. It's already a bloody miracle Leatherneck has the rights to make a sim for a Grumman product (people familiar with flight sims will remember the sh*tstorm brewed by them with the Pacific Fighters title of the Il-2 series).

 

I don't think that Grumman is too stingy with their permissions / licences, as Aerosoft modeled the same two versions of the F-14 that Leatherneck is working on -- the A and B models; see here: http://en.shop.aerosoft.com/eshop.php?action=article_detail&s_supplier_aid=12805&s_design=DEFAULT&shopfilter_category=Flight+Simulation&s_language=english

 

I bought it for P3D in order to train myself on carrier ops in preparation for DCS: F-14.

[hannibal]

i worry about compressor stalls..

[dartuil]

I have mirage and f-14 for fsx too wait dcs version.

[panzerd18]

How would a F-14 fair dogfighting against the Mig-23 or a IAI Kfir?

[dartuil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmnisSYWjRc

What is the tiny aircraft with tom?

[NORTHMAN]

How would a F-14 fair dogfighting against the Mig-23 or a IAI Kfir?

 

I really dont think the Flogger stand a chance againt F-14!

 

The IAI Kfir, is a good question! The bird look a bit like a mix of MiG-21 and Mirage.

 

Look the disign of it, its made for speed, probably not able to turn thight enough (its just a supposition), Wings are small, big engine, canard could change something (better turning rate like rafale, or better instant turn like eurofighter).

 

Its just a guess, maybe I'm wrong about it! I think F-14 sould win...:thumbup:

[captain_dalan]

How would a F-14 fair dogfighting against the Mig-23 or a IAI Kfir?

I don't know much about the Kfir, but the 23 is not that much of an ACM platform. The closest thing i could use to describe it, is a 50/50 child of an F-104 and F-4. Excellent speed, acceleration and climb, but very poor lift curve and cockpit visibility. Also an early buffet onset.

 

A really great old video. I really love the older documentary over the latest (in my opinion, the video show how its better and why! not saying its the best in the world every 20 seconds like the apache documentary I saw last week lol:doh:, I really love the apache/longbow by the way:D).

 

You can see the F-14 maneuvering, turning hard, make a climb to show how you can take advantage of the very large wings!

 

That said, the video is all about F-14 vs T-38 (supposed to be a very maneuverable aircraft), A-4 and F-4! It should be a great tactics against MiG-21 but I dont think you can do the trick you see in the video against the latest air superiority fighter! It look like: do it and you're dead.

 

Thanks again Woogey for the video links, the F-14 action I see there is very satisfying!:D

Yeah, that maneuver won't work against modern jets. Well, most of the time i won't. But there are occasions when it is useful. You can try this with a friend or against an AI:

 

let a Viper get in your rear quarter, then start cornering (in any jet really, doesn't have to be an F-14, Su-27 would do). If the bandit starts pulling too hard to get lead on you (you'll see his nose ahead of you) and bleeds too much energy by pushing his lift curve to max (you'll notice a wing rock), then level off, go up, and roll your vector on him. If done properly, he won't have the energy to follow. If he tries to go up, he will probably stall out midway into the climb and then you have him as soon as you flip over the top of your egg. If he extends, you go into a wide displacement roll behind him. If he continues to turn, you do a High Yo-Yo and again roll in behind him. The key is to make sure he is our of energy, before you even think of doing it.

[AceRevo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmnisSYWjRc

What is the tiny aircraft with tom?

 

Mig-28 :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, thats a F-5. :)

[Retu81]

Anecdotal, but I remember reading an article about an exercise between F-15s and F-14s. I can't remember what article it was but this part stuck to my mind: One F-15 pilot was asked what it was like fighting against a Tomcat. He answered along these lines: "F-15 will beat Tomcat in a dogfight 9 times out of 10. But if you get into a slow turning fight, he (Tomcat) will eat you alive and keeps asking for more."

[captain_dalan]

Anecdotal, but I remember reading an article about an exercise between F-15s and F-14s. I can't remember what article it was but this part stuck to my mind: One F-15 pilot was asked what it was like fighting against a Tomcat. He answered along these lines: "F-15 will beat Tomcat in a dogfight 9 times out of 10. But if you get into a slow turning fight, he (Tomcat) will eat you alive and keeps asking for more."

 

I guess at least partially correct. The stick will probably be the deciding factor (as it usually is). The Ego drivers were much more careful with their comments in the 70's and the 80's though :smilewink:

[FWind]

:lol:F-14A 1977 ACM/ACE

Edited March 4, 2015 by FWind

[inSky_1911CFZS]

Better than MiG-25/31，but poor than Flankers，Fulcrums and Mirages due it old fly control system and extremely low thrust-to-weight ratio...

Edited March 4, 2015 by inSky_1911/CFZS

[captain_dalan]

:lol:F-14A 1977 ACM/ACE

[ATTACH]114131[/ATTACH]

That's a neat table! :thumbup:

Was it taken for a single plane during multiple flights or for an entire squadron?

[Manuel_108]

Does the F-14 have the ability to cruise at supersonic speeds?

[panzerd18]

I thought only F-22 can cruise supersonic without afterburner?

[Manuel_108]

I dunno, but I guess the tomcat has big enough tanks to supercruise at least 10 min or so which would be enough for fleet defense I suppose? Depends on the mission really.

[Alicatt]

I thought only F-22 can cruise supersonic without afterburner?

First aircraft to "supercruise" was the English Electric P1b in the 1950s it was the prototype of the English Electric Lightning, the P1b didn't have an afterburner.

The lightning could also achieve about Mach 1.3 on full mil power and over Mach 2 with reheat.

 

The Concorde also supercruised at Mach 2+ it only used afterburner to get up to height quickly but once there it was dry power.

 

There was a proposal for the Tomcat to be re-engined and the new engines would allow a Mach 1.2 - 1.3 supercruise but nothing came of the proposal.

[CASoldier2014]

:surprise: But..but..look at the Mig's cockpit and compare it with the tomcats. The F-14 looks like a beautiful jet, the Fishbed more or less like a tractor. Unbeliveable!

 

Yeah, the MiG-29 is newer than the F-15, aswell ;)

[Coyote Duster]

Let me put this to bed like I did in il2, it's not about who can turn the tightest, it's about altitude speed, energy and TURN RADIUS, just like when people say the p51 can't out turn the 109, it can at high speeds but not below 200 mph, I believe at certain speeds, with the wings swept at the right angle and certain altitude it could hang for a while, you all gotta remember that the su27 is a heavy plane, and just because it can pull a cobra without any missiles and a certain fuel loading at an airshow doesn't mean it's a modern day zero

[emg]

I thought only F-22 can cruise supersonic without afterburner?

 

First aircraft to "supercruise" was the English Electric P1b in the 1950s it was the prototype of the English Electric Lightning, the P1b didn't have an afterburner.

The lightning could also achieve about Mach 1.3 on full mil power and over Mach 2 with reheat.

 

The Concorde also supercruised at Mach 2+ it only used afterburner to get up to height quickly but once there it was dry power.

 

There was a proposal for the Tomcat to be re-engined and the new engines would allow a Mach 1.2 - 1.3 supercruise but nothing came of the proposal.

 

Eurofighter also claims supercruise with 4 + 2 missiles (fuselage recess & wingtip.)

[foxbat155]

The MiG-21bis and the F-14A both had their first flight in 1970 ;)

 

F-14 was totally new aircraft in 1970, MiG-21Bis was ONLY one of the variants from big family, last variant. Bis weapon system created between 1962-64 and go series late 1965 on MiG-21S. Bis is almost the same aircraft with only slight bigger fuel tank and modernised engine. So were is secret of her big carrier?. Answer is very simple: Soviets treats MiG-21M/MF/Bis same like USA F-5A/F-5E, cheap supersonic fighter for poor allies.

 

I really dont think the Flogger stand a chance againt F-14!

 

Flogger ( especially later variants ) will eat F-14 in dogfight easily, BVR it's different story. Better rate of climb, higher trust to weight ratio, lower wing load. I know F-14 it's beautiful aircraft but she is like big cow, and can't be change into racing horse. Tomcat was create as a interceptor for defeating Soviet naval bombers and they missiles nothing more. The same story like with MiG-25 and 31, you can tell about them lot of things but definitely they are not dogfighters.

[Dudikoff]

Flogger ( especially later variants ) will eat F-14 in dogfight easily, BVR it's different story. Better rate of climb, higher trust to weight ratio, lower wing load. I know F-14 it's beautiful aircraft but she is like big cow, and can't be change into racing horse. Tomcat was create as a interceptor for defeating Soviet naval bombers and they missiles nothing more. The same story like with MiG-25 and 31, you can tell about them lot of things but definitely they are not dogfighters.

 

And the Flogger is? It had a rather sensitive engine certainly not suited for quick thrust changes the dogfight requires, worse missiles, limited cockpit visibility, worse cockpit controls, manual wing sweep setting, etc. They all have their stronger and weaker points and it's up to the pilots to exploit them to their advantage so this whole "better in dogfight" debate is a bit silly as it's a rather broad term and thus meaningless without a wider context. For example, the F-14 pilots would probably have to be really incompetent, alone and with no AWACS support to find themselves on the defensive in WVR against the 23s in a realistic scenario.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dudikoff

[Manuel_108]

^Exactly. At the end of the day it's about the pilot and how he handles the machine...and some other circumstances.