"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

BodyOrgan · July 22, 2016

I dunno how you can say that its balanced if its capable of achieving the same single task.
Gazelle cant engage enemy helicopters for shi*** for example, while in the KA50 you pretty much have a god damn powerfull anti chopper tool.

The Ka-50 isn't some ultimate Anti-chopper tool. It requires significant work coordinating with a GCI to locate another chopper to attack, and then if you're unlucky, and the victim spots you first then you could end up being the victim.

Chopper combat boils down to who spots who first in almost all engagements.

If the Huey gets the jump on a Ka-50, it's dead.
If a Mi-8 gets the jump on a Ka-50, it's dead.
If a Gazelle gets the jump on a Ka-50, the Gazelle is dead. Just kidding, the M might have more trouble since it will need to acquire a HOT 3 lock, but the L will certainly kill it.

microvax · July 22, 2016

The Ka-50 isn't some ultimate Anti-chopper tool. It requires significant work coordinating with a GCI to locate another chopper to attack, and then if you're unlucky, and the victim spots you first then you could end up being the victim.

Chopper combat boils down to who spots who first in almost all engagements.

If the Huey gets the jump on a Ka-50, it's dead.

If a Mi-8 gets the jump on a Ka-50, it's dead.

If a Gazelle gets the jump on a Ka-50, the Gazelle is dead. Just kidding, the M might have more trouble since it will need to acquire a HOT 3 lock, but the L will certainly kill it.

It isnt the ultimate but by far the best. reliable range against mvoing chopper is 6km with VIKHR.

I agree that spotting the enemy is as important as in any other engagement.

UH1 will only kill the ka50 if the KA50 is hovering, ka50 should never hover, it has all the fancy systems to do everything on the move, if you hover you are robbing yourself of every possibility to react. [Thats why the HOT3s are shi*** in comparison to KA50 systems, you basically cany turn in the slightest without having camera jumping, which makes adjusting the aim impossible, so you have to hover for reliable hits, which is terrible]. And even then, rockets are the only reliable way to kill the ka50 for the huey. The miniguns do such low damage, that a ka50 still flies after hundreds of hits, not fully intact ofc, but still capable at least of some low end tasks.

And in the End, KA50 can just run from a huey.

If an mi8 jumps onto an ka50 in the normal setup I kind of agree with you, although there is tactics which give you the upper hand in the ka50 over traditional helis if you stick to it.

Do you even fly the Gazelle ? The rangefinder doesnt work against flying targets and it cant "lock" anything [to be clear, no tracking of targets]. You have to manually guide the missile in. And to launch you have to be within +/-3 degrees of the target heading. You can fix the camera on a point on the ground, but that drifts obviously, thats why you have to readjust even when attacking ground targets, while moving.

Now adjust a sight, which drifts due to false range expectations due to no knowledge of elavation, jumps around due to bad stabilisation implementation and is also vibrating, so you dont even have a steady screen.

The L will only kill the KA50, if the KA50 doesnt spot the L at range. If the KA50 lets the 342l get closer then 800m its probably toast, simply because it has to much inertia to keep up with the flimsy gazelle. But If you get a lock even at 1.5km, just throw two vikhrs and the gazelle is toast, or just fire 30mm, or just do boath for maximum overkill.

gregzagk · July 22, 2016

Server updated to latest patch.

Added F-5E to blue side. As it's still in Alpha stage we will check any stability issues during our testing sessions.

Greg

microvax · July 22, 2016

Server updated to latest patch.
Added F-5E to blue side. As it's still in Alpha stage we will check any stability issues during our testing sessions.

Greg

:thumbup: great job on fast patch.

Dont want to stress it but any eta on 342l ? :music_whistling:

D4n · July 22, 2016

4h would be really appreciated! It would make helo flying more rewarding :thumbup:

Exactly!!!

gregzagk · July 22, 2016

:thumbup: great job on fast patch.

Dont want to stress it but any eta on 342l ? :music_whistling:

Ah sorry that was already in.

They are in the FARPs. Please check them if they are ok as they use the ramp on ground feature ;)

microvax · July 22, 2016

Ah sorry that was already in.
They are in the FARPs. Please check them if they are ok as they use the ramp on ground feature ;)

Ahhhhhh YIS THX !!! :DD Will test ! :D

RAZBAM_ELMO · July 23, 2016

Anyone an admin able to switch me sides?

Beeroshima · July 23, 2016

Oops. Disregard.

RAZBAM_ELMO · July 23, 2016

Hm?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Voodooflies · July 23, 2016

Hey guys,

I was quite surprised by the fact there wasn't a lot of people using SR this evening on BLUFOR, including the GCI who rathered TS. Are there any issue that remains on SR that prevents people from joining ? Me and my leader felt quite lonely this evening on the net. It would be great if someone with enough free time into his hands is willing to do a tutorial about radio coms to keep it straight and simple regarding ATC (at least phraseology, not even circuits) for beginners. Some people don't even know what brevity stands for which is normal at a certain level.

As Blue Flag administrators are not willing to put SR mandatory (yet ?) for coms as they may be affraid to loose a part of the casual players (which I can understand in some way), however it would be nice if at least people in trouble who are using SR get familiar with the coms. By the way it would be easier for GCI if you guys had callsigns on top of your individual nicknames, just my 2 cents here. I've already seen some dudes with their own callsign as they were forming up a flight package.

Fun fact, I got a really good friend of mine who's pilot and who's a navigator in the french airforce, he was quite on the hype for Blue Flag when he began to check it out as I introduced it to him, however some of the coms just frightened him away because everyone was stepping on each other on TS.

So here is the split between casual players and hardcore simmers that I would like to highlight. From now on, it's pure reflexion, let's consider this as a brainstorming, I don't wanna offense anyone, this is just a free speech from my point of view.

Some people have more fun doing their own thing being a lonewolf, not givin' a damn regarding procedures, doing random barrel rolls and stuff, taking off and landing on whatever runways, once again I understand that some players would be satisfied in that kind of gameplay and perhaps think they don't have the time to learn other things. Some others rather being into procedures and being close to the RL thing, with structured stuff, defined flight packages, brevity only usage on the coms with the GCI, auto-information on the ATC channel, sticking to active runway and so on...

This may lead to some misunderstanding when both categories encounter on the coms. Fun fact number 2, I was at Sochi on the defined ATC frequency, announced my taxi and as I was just about to line up on the runway from the holding point rwy 06, I heard someone who announced "I'm landing Sochi". No more, no less, I asked the guy to be a little more precise regarding his intentions as I don't even knew who was talking and what runway he was referring to. When I asked him about the runway he said "I don't know, the big one nearby the sea" or something like that, I had a good laugh, then I said "Well that's 06" and then he goes "I don't care, that's a runway" *sigh*.

So here's the point, it would be great to find a way that both categories of players actually find their fun equally as Blue Flag is the only server who has such an incredible mission with an insane work behind it, regarding scripts, map cloud, .pdf and a lot of other things. This is by far, the best server I've been into, so that is the reason I'm telling you guys all this right now by giving my thoughts. Having structured coms may not only frighten newbies away, but it can aswell prevent hardcore simmers and real pilots (they are still clients right ?) in most case from joining this campaign.

What are your toughts guys ?

Edited July 23, 2016 by Sacha

RAZBAM_ELMO · July 23, 2016

I'm with you dude. Comms on srs should be mandatory and brevity should be standard. Learn it and get it drilled in your head. It makes things a helluva lot easier and cleaner.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Etherlight · July 23, 2016

Why I don't use SR? There are a few possible answers, but I'll give the most important one: I don't want to. I do not see it in any way enhancing the experience I want out of Blueflag. Blueflag, for me, and for many other people, has never been a hardcore simming experience. It's hard to get into that state of mind with the, quite frankly, ridiculous bugs, stupid missile behaviour, unfinished modules and downright weird gameplay DCS sometimes (often) puts on your plate. TS gives me all I need: GCI, friendly chatter and banter, interesting discussions (if there is time) and generally a social environment. SR does not. I cannot talk to specific people, I HAVE to talk or at least listen to everybody on my frequency (Yes, I mute people on TS if they get on my nerves) and it generally limits the amount of communication, beside having a way worse audio quality for me. It's cute for using the radio sound and having a little session with 2 or 3 people when you want some flair, but all the time? Nah. Don't see a single reason for it.

And when it comes to brevity? Honestly most people don't give too much of a damn about it. Not everybody in DCS is a hardcore simmer. I'm not, never will be. I know a few words for most of the combat actions that are being taken, but it does not go further than that and I have exactly 0 interest in learning it much further. I'm here mostly for the flying and fighting experience, which means operation of the aircraft and systems. I have no interest in meming the "real pilot", because I never will be, it's wasted effort. Quite a lot of people on Blueflag seem to share the sentiment or something that amounts to the same outcome, considering the low and shallow amount of brevity used. And then of course there's the fine detail of Blueflag being a public event that does not impose restrictions upon joining as of yet. Therefore I would strongly reconsider on going all "elite hardcore simmer" on the thankfully (as of yet) quite large playerbase. You want a GCI that uses SR, brevity only and flight elements that do so, too? Just open a thread and ask for kindred spirits that share your joy for that kind of thing. Get your own little group established in the playerbase that plays along those rules and maybe give the "public" TS CGI a headsup what you're gonna do when you get out with your guys - everybody is happy.

In short: There is no reason to force something upon people that they do not want to adapt to naturally, except of course you're coincidentally an admin and decide that this is the way your server is going to play out. That's their prerogative. Look for people who want to do your thing, but don't go the way of "everybody has to do this the way I personally like to experience it". Nobody gains something out of that, except for those that like a good flamewar.

Beeroshima · July 23, 2016

I jumped in gci with about an hour left. I didnt see many in it and everyone in the action seemed to be on ts so I chose to stick there. SR is brilliant. I wish it was the standard, but sadly, it isnt. I cant argue with any of ether's reasons because that's the way he feels. The unfortunate thing is, when you're gci'ing ts or Simple Radio, whichever one you're not using just becomes yet one more channel to monitor or talk on.

Sent while I should be working instead.

StandingCow · July 23, 2016

I'd suggest if not mandatory then STRONGLY encouraged. If you don't know what the rest of the team is doing in blueflag then you are pretty useless to the team, unless you are flying with a unit and doing your own thing, but then how do you confirm hostile vs friendly helos?

Everyone in teamspeak just got too crazy, you can't effectively communicate with who you need to because so many other people are communicating and/or adding useless information/chatter. With SR those people in a unit could have their own private radio while still listening in to the GCI and the rest of the team.

I would go so far as to say if people don't use SR and want to do your own thing maybe the blueflag event/server isn't the best place? This is afterall a team based event.

gregzagk · July 23, 2016

As Blue Flag administrators are not willing to put SR mandatory (yet ?) for coms as they may be affraid to loose a part of the casual players (which I can understand in some way), however it would be nice if at least people in trouble who are using SR get familiar with the coms.

Didn't quote all your post but I agree with your points. As Etherlight also said there are different kinds of players out there. Our goal with Blue Flag was from the start to get the community together inside a Dynamic campaign and not make this a smaller squadron based campaign as we did this already in the past (and possibly do this again in the near future in a different version).

You can see that there is a great number of players that learned through the rounds things like brevities, SOP, tactics etc. At the same time people that want a more casual procedure, coordinated with others and learned also things even if they kept it more simple. Besides, if you want to succeed in Blue Flag you have to work together with your side players.

Simple Radio standalone is something new and even if it uses the same concept with the other Comms software out there, it can be used easier from much more players.

So our goal at this point is to get people familiar with the process and try to motivate more to use it by showing its potential. Enforcing it will be bad as you can't and don't like to enforce things in a hobby.

Greg

Enduro14 · July 23, 2016

Simple radio is a godsend. Make it the standard!

Voodooflies · July 23, 2016

I jumped in gci with about an hour left. I didnt see many in it and everyone in the action seemed to be on ts so I chose to stick there. SR is brilliant. I wish it was the standard, but sadly, it isnt. I cant argue with any of ether's reasons because that's the way he feels. The unfortunate thing is, when you're gci'ing ts or Simple Radio, whichever one you're not using just becomes yet one more channel to monitor or talk on.

Sent while I should be working instead.

I stopped being on TS as soon as SR got released. It could be a standard if the community raise up their voice, this is YOU guys who are making this game alive.

I'm just talking to everyone out here. At first, I had some doubts regarding SR but Ciribob obviously made a fantastic work. Of course, SR might have some bugs, but the guy is just insanely fast at fixings things up and adding new stuff on top of that for the community. This is a real game changer and I believe that DCS truely deserve the best. With this addon, I've the feeling we enter in some kind of new era regarding the community and I think it's now the good time to get to the next level. For the newbies out there, reading my lines, I would like to ask you one question: Why have you chosen DCS over the other sims ? Why do you purchase modules people ? Why have you chosen Blue Flag on top of other servers ? I'd put my hand in the fire betting than people started DCS at first for the complexity of the aircrafts simulation-wise on top of some realism and immersion. Well guess what, there are rules in the sky when you're flying online. I don't mind about taxiway takeoff as long as these people remain on solo or random other servers. Blue Flag is kinda one hardcore campaign, you got 4 lives every 6 hours, 1st person only, so I guess it should come with some standards as everyone as to fly with other people and act as a team.

Everyone in teamspeak just got too crazy, you can't effectively communicate with who you need to because so many other people are communicating and/or adding useless information/chatter. With SR those people in a unit could have their own private radio while still listening in to the GCI and the rest of the team.

I would go so far as to say if people don't use SR and want to do your own thing maybe the blueflag event/server isn't the best place? This is afterall a team based event.

I'm totally agree with you. I'm trying to raise awareness around/trying to know what everyone is looking for when flying on Blue Flag, what are your expectations ? What do you enjoy so far ? What would you like to get ? I'm just deadly curious about what motivates people to join Blue Flag whereas there are tons of servers more accessible to anyone who starts DCS. Finally, DCS could be the next BMS in some way, it just needs more implicated people as in BMS. I'm not trying to promote BMS community as I don't know much about it, but many of my friends flew on BMS and... yeah... these guys know a shitload of stuff regarding aeronautics and procedures and so on and fact is, they're willing to teach people out, but well, some of other virtual pilots are like "nobody ain't got time for that". So yeah, that's a complex story that requires more reflexion. Lot of players, two main categories.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Sacha

StandingCow · July 23, 2016

I'm totally agree with you. I'm trying to raise awareness around/trying to know what everyone is looking for when flying on Blue Flag, what are your expectations ? What do you enjoy so far ? What would you like to get ? I'm just deadly curious about what motivates people to join Blue Flag whereas there are tons of servers more accessible to anyone who starts DCS. Finally, DCS could be the next BMS in some way, it just needs more implicated people as in BMS. I'm not trying to promote BMS community as I don't know much about it, but many of my friends flew on BMS and... yeah... these guys know a shitload of stuff regarding aeronautics and procedures and so on and fact is, they're willing to teach people out, but well, some of other virtual pilots are like "nobody ain't got time for that". So yeah, that's a complex story that requires more reflexion. Lot of players, two main categories.

To be as immersed as possible is my expectation. Since we don't have the dynamic campaign of certain other sims, blueflag is the closest we can come (in some ways even better since it is against other humans vs AI). Working together as a team to achieve a mission (capturing objectives) is very rewarding, especially when you are against tough odds.

Other than a dynamic campaign, in game realistic comms are the other challenge, and ciribob has done an amazing job programming something that's as close as you can get without it being built ingame. Not only is SR good for immersion, but it also is massively helpful in being able to communicate with the group you need to talk to, without overtalking other groups.

TS (if people were in different rooms) wasn't bad, but not being able to hear the threat from the guys in the fighters made being a striker/helo pilot that much more dangerous, often you didn't know until it was too late that you didn't have CAP in the area. TS (if everyone was in the same room) could at times become a jumbled mess of too much information.

I guess the best thing we can do is continue to motivate people to get SR, if we see people not using it, but in TS, we could jump into TS and offer to help them set it up.

Voodooflies · July 23, 2016

To be as immersed as possible is my expectation. Since we don't have the dynamic campaign of certain other sims, blueflag is the closest we can come (in some ways even better since it is against other humans vs AI). Working together as a team to achieve a mission (capturing objectives) is very rewarding, especially when you are against tough odds.

Other than a dynamic campaign, in game realistic comms are the other challenge, and ciribob has done an amazing job programming something that's as close as you can get without it being built ingame. Not only is SR good for immersion, but it also is massively helpful in being able to communicate with the group you need to talk to, without overtalking other groups.

TS (if people were in different rooms) wasn't bad, but not being able to hear the threat from the guys in the fighters made being a striker/helo pilot that much more dangerous, often you didn't know until it was too late that you didn't have CAP in the area. TS (if everyone was in the same room) could at times become a jumbled mess of too much information.

I guess the best thing we can do is continue to motivate people to get SR, if we see people not using it, but in TS, we could jump into TS and offer to help them set it up.

Well you said everything mate, it sums up pretty much everything. TS could still be used for people having trouble setting up SR, or for people not confident enough on the radio coms for instance and if in any case there is issue regarding SR's server it could be used as a backup aswell. Now that we got the Blue Flag frequencies list published, there shouldn't be any issue concerning frequency tuning, it pretty much goes like this : one frequency for your flight package (prebriefed with your mates on TS or any other plateforms such as social networks), ATC & GCI frequency. That's it, no more, no less. Benefits ? Better situational awareness, less trash talk, better immersion, usefull informations only, step forward realism, better efficiency, better focus, no more step-on.

Needless to say that wingmen doesn't have to transmit anything to the ATC while being in a flight package. Only the leader does transmit on ATC & GCI channels. So it's even easier as they only have to transmit on one single channel which is their own flight !

Edited July 23, 2016 by Sacha

Ciribob · July 23, 2016

The idea behind SimpleRadio was that it basically replaces Rooms and whisper channels in TeamSpeak exactly like StandingCow says but in a more intuitive way its already built into the game.

The Radio works fine in conjunction with TS as well so there is no harm in being in both and muted on TS. If you gets too loud in TS, set yourself to away, reduce volume of the channel or move channels. The same applies to SimpleRadio as well, if you don't want to use it that much, connect anyway, listen to just GCI channel and don't set a PTT. You'll then get the best of both worlds and everyone wins! :)

We know not everyone will use SR, and we're unlikely to make it mandatory, the same as TS is not mandatory to fly on BlueFlag.

I would like to ask though that if you haven't given it a go, please do as it'll take at most 5 minutes to setup, including download time... :)

It's actually just coming up to 3 weeks or so since it was released so in module terms its Early Alpha at best but I am working hard to improve it constantly so please let me know if you see bugs or issues. It's open source so you can help out if you want!

Also the round in still in testing and the SOP is still being written so not everyone will find out about the radio but luckily you can see on the map who's got it :)

For reference - Here are the frequency maps for Round 8: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LYS-K2EBGBZ1RjD0UGUdOkAXJBGw3mmRQZ2cSsdbJao/edit#gid=0

@Etherlight: Why not just use both as I say above? SR for Comms, TS for banter - they're not mutually exclusive :)

Edited July 23, 2016 by Ciribob

Ciribob · July 23, 2016

Well you said everything mate, it sums up pretty much everything. TS could still be used for people having trouble setting up SR, or for people not confident enough on the radio coms for instance and if in any case there is issue regarding SR's server it could be used as a backup aswell. Now that we got the Blue Flag frequencies list published, there shouldn't be any issue concerning frequency tuning, it pretty much goes like this : one frequency for your flight package (prebriefed with your mates on TS or any other plateforms such as social networks), ATC & GCI frequency. That's it, no more, no less. Benefits ? Better situational awareness, less trash talk, better immersion, usefull informations only, step forward realism, better efficiency, better focus, no more step-on.

Needless to say that wingmen doesn't have to transmit anything to the ATC while being in a flight package. Only the leader does transmit on ATC & GCI channels. So it's even easier as they only have to transmit on one single channel which is their own flight !

You said it much better than I did... Thanks guys for trying it and getting behind it. It's really appreciated :)

huzar · July 23, 2016

If you want to force using either TS or SR and ATC / brevity codes etc for all players then the server would have to be closed for the public. If we keep it open then the server needs to accomodate for all users.

I prefer open server, it keeps it full and there is always lots of going on. And one small change could help to keep everyone happy: force take offs and landings on the left side of the runway as on 104th, hardcore simmers would still follow procedures and ATC and beginners / lonewolfs would not interfere with them.

Frostie · July 23, 2016

I think one of the biggest things to come out of Blue flag is the community getting closer together and friendships being formed instead of names on the chat screen. This is because of the need to be on TS working together, something only ever done on public servers in patches before. Now people learn stuff directly and improve, become more proficient etc.

That for me is what Blue flag has done so well, the matter of getting a hardcore only option with comms is not something for a public open to anyone server, it is more suited to a closed organised event between squadrons or groups. Bringing the community closer and getting new guys to open up and join in rather than be scared away by ghost town ts channels.

I'm sure BS have plans for closed events that can follow strict procedures etc. it has been done plenty times before so I don't see why not so lets not tie down open server play rather leave such stuff optional.

Jugdriver · July 23, 2016

I think one of the biggest things to come out of Blue flag is the community getting closer together and friendships being formed instead of names on the chat screen. This is because of the need to be on TS working together, something only ever done on public servers in patches before. Now people learn stuff directly and improve, become more proficient etc.

That for me is what Blue flag has done so well, the matter of getting a hardcore only option with comms is not something for a public open to anyone server, it is more suited to a closed organised event between squadrons or groups. Bringing the community closer and getting new guys to open up and join in rather than be scared away by ghost town ts channels.

I'm sure BS have plans for closed events that can follow strict procedures etc. it has been done plenty times before so I don't see why not so lets not tie down open server play rather leave such stuff optional.

+1

JD

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