Open Conflict - Server Information

[blast]

Defuel the aircraft and disable quick aline makes the respawn time of the m2k and FC3 more equal.

I don't see how having fast align disabled relates to not allowing certain missiles.

I said that with your logic we could also remove ET and fox3 missiles to be on an equal basis with the M2000 due to it's limited missiles. But of course I'm not asking such a request since it would be as stupid as forcing the M2000 to make a full realignment at every respawns. It takes 8 minutes for a full alignment in M2000. FC3 aircrafts doesn't have such an issue.

 

As for starting faster than fc3 I think u are misunderstanding what I am saying. As is now the mirage can be shot down and back airborne again within 60 seconds. This is enabling air-quake style game play. And like you said everyone is flying mirages.

I understood what you said. And again I answer that FC3 aircraft can be airborne faster than the M2000. It is not possible, even with auto-start ON, to be airborne within 60 seconds with an M2000. :no:

 

So enabling air quake+introducing more mirages (like you want) = very poor multiplayer experience for othe people that don't want to be in an air quake server. There are plenty of them online.

If you don't like to be shot down, you have others servers where you can fly peacefully such as aerobatics server, or training server. There is also server dedicated to Mig21 and F5 only.

[acdelta57]

if you can't get airborne under 60 seconds with the m2k then u don't know your aircraft very well. (Not including taxi of course). Ive been flying the mirage since day one of its release and with quick align off (in my personal settings) I can still set up the a fast align and have it be aligned before I reach I the conflict zone (perhaps this is a bug by razbam but nevertheless just to prove a point it can be done as the aircraft will align in flight)

 

You clearly have no idea what your talking about and would just like to see the Open conflict server become another 104th. Good luck with that. Next time you see me online I'll show you how to start the mirage if you'd like.

[acdelta57]

Turn autostart off. Make everyone perform cold starts manually. Problem solved. Also buddy if you wanna blame airquake on the mirage instead of amraams and ETs you should have your meds checked.

 

You have no idea what your talking about either as amrams and ETs are not even allowed at the home airfields anymore. Auto start is also probably the slowest way to start and aircraft as well. So maybe you need some meds

[NineLine]

Guys please try to discuss without personal insults, remember:

 

1.6 No multiplayer disputes on the ED forums, including inter-squad flamewars.

 

Its nice for you guys to have some place to discuss your time in this server, but if you cant behave it will be closed.

[JDarksword]

I said that with your logic we could also remove ET and fox3 missiles to be on an equal basis with the M2000 due to it's limited missiles. But of course I'm not asking such a request since it would be as stupid as forcing the M2000 to make a full realignment at every respawns. It takes 8 minutes for a full alignment in M2000. FC3 aircrafts doesn't have such an issue.

 

First off I will start by saying that both dustoff and Bert, as well as myself, have been around since the early days of OC and remember what it used to be like when people actually played instead of air quaking. Secondly, you should quit your complaining, 8 minutes for an align is nothing, for the A-10C if I do the start by the books as is the norm for this sim it takes me ~20-30 Mins. If I cut corners I get it down to 15-20, only to take off and get shot down by an M2K, or FC3 aircraft that started and took off in 60 seconds or less and dropped 4 missiles on the first contact it found only to die, respawn and do it again.

[Cravgar]

Guys please try to discuss without personal insults, remember:

 

1.6 No multiplayer disputes on the ED forums, including inter-squad flamewars.

 

Its nice for you guys to have some place to discuss your time in this server, but if you cant behave it will be closed.

 

 

 

So..post deleted for asking a straight up question. @admin I'm sure many people would like a clarification on exactly what is was people were saying that is disputing or causing a squad flame war? It's a genuine question and didn't deserve a delete. If you can explain it to us maybe we can try to avoid this in future.

 

Maybe saying you can't do something is a bit strong...but it's not unreasonable for us to ask you to clarify it. Look forward to your detailed response!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shadow KT]

for the A-10C if I do the start by the books as is the norm for this sim it takes me ~20-30 Mins. If I cut corners I get it down to 15-20.

 

hah, a "bit" exaggerated about the start-up times (without checklists and pre-flight checks)

[blast]

First off I will start by saying that both dustoff and Bert, as well as myself, have been around since the early days of OC and remember what it used to be like when people actually played instead of air quaking. Secondly, you should quit your complaining, 8 minutes for an align is nothing, for the A-10C if I do the start by the books as is the norm for this sim it takes me ~20-30 Mins. If I cut corners I get it down to 15-20, only to take off and get shot down by an M2K, or FC3 aircraft that started and took off in 60 seconds or less and dropped 4 missiles on the first contact it found only to die, respawn and do it again.

 

It's not because players have been there for longer time that they can call others ignorant, or they can claim to be better than others. I played on OC for more than 1 and half year is it enough for you? All ideas are good to hear, and it is good to talk about it. You can't say: "Hey, we have been here longer than you, then close your mouth". It doesn't work like that. This server is popular not because of you and everyone has a word to say.

Few months ago I suggested the idea to have the russian awacs in english, and I'm glad it is now. After all, good ideas do not belong to older players.

 

Now about your comparison with the A10, it is not because you like or accept to wait for half an hour to align an aircraft that the others must face this too. Or we should call this server"Alignment Simulator". Pointing the M2000 to be responsible of air-quake is absolutely non sense compared to the flaming cliff superiority. And yeah, being shot by a superior aircraft its not abnormal.

By the way on OC you have dedicated area to drop your bombs with not very much threats. If you move alone with your A10 in the conflict area, what did you expect? :doh:

[Cravgar]

I'd also like to add that in my view manual align won't affect a mirage much at all. As dust off pointed out if you know how to you can have it up in the air very quickly and lots of people don't even bother to align.

 

There are also some of us out there than do ground missions in the m2k and then resume a cap mission afterwards so limiting the slots also has other impacts.

 

Whilst I personally would like to see more m2k slots I would have to lean towards not doing that for the risk of more air quake appearing as unfortunately those who ground pound in it are limited and because you can get it into the air quickly it would make things worse.

 

The m2k is a good module and I pretty much only fly it but Bert makes a very good point in that when the changes were made to oc to limit fuel and missiles on the fc3 planes the mirage suddenly got more popular so therefore I would also say make the thing be refueled before startup is possible.

 

Any solution here should be about balance and not just making more slots for something that is fotm

[Vilab]

I fly M2000 and Fc3 planes on OC, and the m2000 is actually probably the quickest airplane to start.

 

You can manually begin starting your engine in 5 sec, and you will be armed and ready to go when the engine reach iddle. ( auto aligned INS of course ).

 

Starting FC3 fighters is slower, because you have to refuel your plane ( except F-15... i would advise giving F15 0% fuel, so that player load it 20-30% internal fuel and fuel tank ), and wait to be armed before starting your engines.

 

i would fully agree about defueling the m-2000, it is currently at advantage while it shouldn 't, but keep auto-aligned INS, otherwise it would greatly advantage FC3 plane.

[blast]

I'd also like to add that in my view manual align won't affect a mirage much at all.

Standard INS alignment takes 8 min. It will affect it.

 

Any solution here should be about balance and not just making more slots for something that is fotm

Since all M2000 slots are full in both sides, it is perfectly balanced. And once more M2000 is not responsible of airquakes.

 

when the changes were made to oc to limit fuel and missiles on the fc3 planes the mirage suddenly got more popular so therefore I would also say make the thing be refueled before startup is possible.

When did it end? Then players will move in A10 and you will complain because there is A10 airquake...?

More seriously, I doubt that players moved to M2000 slots only for the reason you mentioned above. It should highly probable that the summer discount (-60% if i remember) is responsible of the M2000 success (+the fact that it is a good product).

 

I bet that F18 slots will be completely full when it will be available. You'll see.

[acdelta57]

blast unfortunately i think your missing the point everyone else is trying to make here, yes more m2k slots would be nice on a larger map, which is coming. Until then it is not, and adding more m2k slots will only add to airquake in the current setup. So with that i bid you good day.

[Vilab]

to reduce airquake, you may move ( and add ) some m-2000 and Fc3 slots to an other airfield where they would only be able to load AG and self defence Air to Air weapons.

[bertOC]

blast unfortunately i think your missing the point everyone else is trying to make here, yes more m2k slots would be nice on a larger map, which is coming. Until then it is not, and adding more m2k slots will only add to airquake in the current setup. So with that i bid you good day.

 

Missed the discussion alltogether, but seeing as my point got lost after the first response i can only put it here again.

 

No more fighters until we got a bigger arena please.

[blast]

blast unfortunately i think your missing the point everyone else is trying to make here, yes more m2k slots would be nice on a larger map, which is coming. Until then it is not, and adding more m2k slots will only add to airquake in the current setup. So with that i bid you good day.

I do not disagree with your point about the restriction of the number of slots.

I only disagree about forcing the alignment and refueling the M2000 at every start-up. It won't be fair since it is a limited aircraft compared to FC3s.

 

Peace.

[cosmicdoubloon]

I don't think defuelling the M2K would actually acheive anything, because its a DCS level module you can refuel it with the engines on anyway so you could have it fuelling whilst you run the startup sequence. You wouldn't slow the aircraft at all in terms of getting back in the fight. Also adding more M2K slots isn't really feasable because pretty much all the airfields are full now, so adding more aircraft means removing something else which is unfair on the people who fly those planes. When the new map comes out each team will have more airfields which will allow the teams to have more planes of every type, but until then I don't see the numbers changing massively... until the F14/18/harrier appear and mess everything up! :P

[Frostie]

Yes refuelling, rearming and starting up can all be done at the sametime in the M2k but refuel takes longer than start up.

[Oceandar]

Yes refuelling, rearming and starting up can all be done at the sametime in the M2k but refuel takes longer than start up.

I was wondering about that, is it a bug or feature ? We cant rearming and refueling while engine is running in any FC3 aircraft AFAIK.

[JDarksword]

It's not because players have been there for longer time that they can call others ignorant, or they can claim to be better than others. I played on OC for more than 1 and half year is it enough for you? All ideas are good to hear, and it is good to talk about it. You can't say: "Hey, we have been here longer than you, then close your mouth". It doesn't work like that. This server is popular not because of you and everyone has a word to say.

Few months ago I suggested the idea to have the russian awacs in english, and I'm glad it is now. After all, good ideas do not belong to older players.

 

Now about your comparison with the A10, it is not because you like or accept to wait for half an hour to align an aircraft that the others must face this too. Or we should call this server"Alignment Simulator". Pointing the M2000 to be responsible of air-quake is absolutely non sense compared to the flaming cliff superiority. And yeah, being shot by a superior aircraft its not abnormal.

By the way on OC you have dedicated area to drop your bombs with not very much threats. If you move alone with your A10 in the conflict area, what did you expect? :doh:

My statement about being around on OC for awhile had nothing to do with superiority, it’s only to point out that there was a time before airquaking that I personally feel was the most entertaining point of time on the server, and that this is what we want to go back to. My statement about the A-10C is because you are complaining about 5 minutes of additional start time, so I’m doing the same about my 10 minute align time. If you don’t want to wait, simply don’t align and use F10 map, I don’t see why that’s an issue when most people do this anyway.

[JDarksword]

When did it end? Then players will move in A10 and you will complain because there is A10 airquake...?

 

Actually, dogfighting in the A-10 takes skill, especially with its lack of a radar and capability to only carry AIM-9Ms.

 

You’re right about the F-18, all the slots will be full. It’s the most anticipated modern module for DCS and is also a major missile truck.

[lefty1117]

Some other servers I've tried forgo PVP altogether and just create more missions for players to team up on. I'm not saying that should be done for OC, but it could be an option. If there's no good way to balance PVP, then maybe bypass it altogether.

[Elliot Durden]

First off I will start by saying that both dustoff and Bert, as well as myself, have been around since the early days of OC and remember what it used to be like when people actually played instead of air quaking. Secondly, you should quit your complaining, 8 minutes for an align is nothing, for the A-10C if I do the start by the books as is the norm for this sim it takes me ~20-30 Mins. If I cut corners I get it down to 15-20, only to take off and get shot down by an M2K, or FC3 aircraft that started and took off in 60 seconds or less and dropped 4 missiles on the first contact it found only to die, respawn and do it again.

 

Well de-fueling FC3 solves the issue because it's not full-fidelity, it's simpler planes too, but then M2K quick INS alignment would need to be disabled because A-10C has that issue(I wouldn't call it issue, it's realistic start-up) too and FC3 de-fueling would make the time it would take for FC3 module to start-up with full fuel(Because combat ready planes are always with fuel). Planes don't start with empty fuel, so de-fueling is dumb. Disabling INS quick alignment is good but I wonder how many people play here for realism anyway, most of players I see care about KD air quaking

Edited September 27, 2017 by Elliot Durden

[Vilab]

There is 2 different kind of balance needed here.

 

- The balance between dedicated ground pounding planes and fighters.

 

- The balance Inside each of this 2 categories.

 

M2k and A-10C, even if they are both "Advanced" modules, are not in the same category. Therefore, they don t need to be specifically balanced one to the other.

 

M2k and FC3 fighter however, are in the same category. There is a need for balance, and a quick and easy fix such as defueling the M2k would enable it.

Also the F-15 too need to be completely, or almost completely defuelled, because loading fuel tanks allows you to skip refuelling.

 

If you want to "balance other planes to the A-10-c", then, you should aim towards su-25s and A-10A which start with 100% fuel and don t need any kind of INS alignement.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Vilab

[JDarksword]

If you want to "balance other planes to the A-10-c", then, you should aim towards su-25s and A-10A which start with 100% fuel and don t need any kind of INS alignement.

 

Problem with that, is that I’m not going to get killed by an A-10A or Su-25 that spam fires all missiles at the first contact they get because they’re ground pounders and have no radar. The CAP aircraft do need to be balanced to the CAS aircraft as they directly affect the ability to play and have fun as a ground pounder.

[Elliot Durden]

There is 2 different kind of balance needed here.

 

- The balance between dedicated ground pounding planes and fighters.

 

- The balance Inside each of this 2 categories.

 

M2k and A-10C, even if they are both "Advanced" modules, are not in the same category. Therefore, they don t need to be specifically balanced one to the other.

 

M2k and FC3 fighter however, are in the same category. There is a need for balance, and a quick and easy fix such as defueling the M2k would enable it.

Also the F-15 too need to be completely, or almost completely defuelled, because loading fuel tanks allows you to skip refuelling.

 

If you want to "balance other planes to the A-10-c", then, you should aim towards su-25s and A-10A which start with 100% fuel and don t need any kind of INS alignement.

 

I kinda agree on some points. I think best would be de-fueling all FC3 planes, including strikers, to simulate the start-up process time they lack. But leave advanced modules alone from de-fuel. Why? Because combat ready planes are not empty on fuel, you hop in, you start the start-up process, and that would be the best simulation if we're reaching for simulation here. But then you would need to disable INS fast alignment. It would reduce air quake too, because people wouldn't go balls deep, and everyone would care about their air frame.

Fueling Su-27 or 33 from 0 for example to at least 70% and re-arming would take the long time time it would take to start-up realistically if it was combat ready plane.

But most likely I'm gonna get very skeptical replies from people, because everything is good realistic, until it's against them right?

Edited September 28, 2017 by Elliot Durden