Improved Spotting

[Slazi]

Joystick binds for zoom in and out are essential. Combine that with a modier for fixed zoom positions and you're golden. I still think it's much easier to spot things irl due to depth perception and the fact that your eyes do a lot of cool things subconsciously.

[NineLine]

That was one of the main perk or improvement that I was looking for with 1.5, but it does not work with crossfire. It give my freeze frame or massive shutter, I am not sure if they're a fix and if they are working on it.

 

Have you made sure you are truly in fullscreen, RALT+Enter should toggle full screen in sim. Right now DCS runs in borderless window mode even if you select full screen.

[Decibel dB]

Have you made sure you are truly in fullscreen, RALT+Enter should toggle full screen in sim. Right now DCS runs in borderless window mode even if you select full screen.

 

Yes I am in fullscreen with RALT + Enter. In fact in borderless window mode (single GPU) the model visibility works. The problem is with crossfire. It was discuss over here but as been quiet for a while

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=148214

 

Thanks for the reply

Edited October 22, 2015 by Decibel dB

[Abburo]

For me is not RALT+Enter but LALT+Enter... not very sure in which conditions either of those two shortcuts might work.

 

To be sure I am in fullscreen I do have the Nvidia shadow play icon active. This icon is visible ONLY in fullscreen so it is my trigger to force or not the fullscreen command.

[gavagai]

I have noticed changes to object magnification through several of the 1.5.1 patches. I have settled on the "low" setting because all the others make aircraft appear larger at narrow fields of view than they do at wide fields of view.

 

The good: aircraft no longer disappear at short range on my display. It's easier to spot aircraft at medium and long ranges, too.

 

The bad: ground vehicles are magnified as giant blobs at long range (with the low setting). The LoD transitions are herky-jerky and remind me of the old Il-2.

 

Others have different or similar opinions?

[vicx]

The bad: ground vehicles are magnified as giant blobs at long range (with the low setting). The LoD transitions are herky-jerky and remind me of the old Il-2.

Others have different or similar opinions?

 

A lot of people don't know that DCS has legacy model enlargement and visibility system that has been around for a LONG time.

 

 

I am wondering if the new improved spotting feature plays well with the old LOD system. It might be that because some LODS have a big box for their long distance LOD it means they "might" stay visible longer than is expected.

 

So the other thing that affects how far away you can see models is what distance the last LOD is set to persist. In the example I posted above ... the Zu-23 gun emplacement is set to persist up 20km and then disappear. This is not a uniform value for all models ... this value is different across the range of models. Most of the modern updated models are 20km for ground units.

 

But why is this Sborka Radar unit set to 50km? and is a dark color so he is easy to see?

 

 

 

I do not think that there is any deliberate effort to make things different ... it is just that the models debuted in different older versions of DCS and have different levels of quality.

 

This is the story with the models in DCS. They are a bit Frankenstein and were always a bit funny but you did not notice. Now it is easier to notice in so many ways.

 

• If you fly a new module without a radar, TGP or Shkval you a so reliant on visual that you notice that some models are VERY hard to spot and some just disappear when they should be seen.
  
• If you zoom with a 4K monitor some models show up that maybe should not be seen.
  
• If you use the new spotting feature you notice ground models persisit longer than is proper.
  

 

In this way we start to notice the visibility is not consistent across all models. It is a good start to fixing these things. :)

Edited November 30, 2015 by vicx
correction

[Crumpp]

That artificial visibility makes for artificial tactics in a visual enviroment. BnZ from across the map and never get bounced or be able to break off.

[Rain]

The spotting greatly improved!

 

Finally. Thank you so much!

[vicx]

The WW2 aircraft have a very consistent LOD system.

• The models are very well optimised for performance/
  
• All models are visible with zooming aids out to 50km for each model.
  

 

 

With the Korean aircraft LODS a lack of consistency :huh:

• The F-86 uses the old large box system. With the spotting system he might be visible longer.
  
• The Mig-15 is not nearly as optimised for performance as the WW2 models.
  

 

[SharpeXB]

The sprite doesn't use the LOD model, or at least the previous "Model Visibility" setting did not, or at least it didn't use the cube. It looked like this if you edited the size larger (maybe that ability has been removed?)

 

According to Wags the LOD models are related to the objects Radar Cross Section so that might explain why the modern aircraft have detailed LODs, even the MiG15 since the Saber has a radar aimed gunsight? Also the ground objects don't have AtoG radar aimed at them (yet)

Edited November 30, 2015 by SharpeXB

[vicx]

LOD system ... continued

 

The big bombers: B-52 and Tu-95

 

These are old models and don't share exactly the same approach. From a very old version of DCS judging by the shells :)

 

Tu-95 stops being visible at 17.3km but has a non-visible collision shell that persists till 50km.

 

*Note* Images on far right or opposite what they should be. The black lines show the collision shell of the Tu-95.

 

B-52 stops being visible at 50km

 

[vicx]

LOD system ... continued

 

NEW Igla terrorist VS OLD Igla terrorist

 

New Igla has a regular size long distance LOD and he disappears at 1km range. This guy hides in cover.

 

 

Old Igla has a big box for a long distance LOD and there is no limit on visibility. This is not how models work in newer versions of DCS. This guy might be from BS1.

 

[vicx]

LOD system ... continued

 

Refueling Aircraft ... they work differently in DCS right now.

 

It is important to be able to find your NATO tanker. This guy has infinite view distance.

 

 

But for the other side ... it is different. First he turns into small box and then he disappears at 50km.

 

/

[SharpeXB]

There is more to determining the LOD model detail than just distance

Here's a target grouping at just over 3km (1.7nm) in DCSW v 1.2 and you can clearly see their features and that they aren't rendered as cubes. Probably when they get to a certain number of pixels they change to the detailed model. Also I never see the transition when zooming in and out. It may be there but it's done in such a way as to be invisible to me the player

 

The bottom line is that the LOD model is never perceived by the player as being out of size, also if I understand how the sprite/imposter system works, that sprite is fixed at a certain number of pixels, it's not related to the model size, LOD or no.

 

Since the player never sees the model LOD transitions, I'm not sure it has any effect on visibility.

Edited November 30, 2015 by SharpeXB

[GrapeJam]

I think the new update broke spotting, now you can't spot plane beyond 1.5 km anymore.

[Solty]

Yep, I had problems to see a sitting.plane on a field from just over a 1km without a almost max zoom. But that was on the burning skies server. Is that due to server setting?

[airdoc]

I think the new update broke spotting, now you can't spot plane beyond 1.5 km anymore.

 

i think so, too. Hopefully they are working on it.

[gavagai]

1.5.2 is like DCSW 1.2 again. Same is true of 2.0 NTTR.

 

Someday we'll get something as natural looking as smart scaling for DCS. Fingers crossed!:yes:

[eekz]

In 1.5.1 it was bad because even on "small" setting you could see contacts at 50km and when close they flickered and looked bad.

 

In 1.5.2 I still did not figure out if the option is working. If they have put the option into mission settings I need to resave mission in 1.5.2 and see what will happen.

 

PS: now i resaved mission with NORMAL improved spotting setting and set NORMAL on server. If it does not work then it's not setting issue.

Edited December 13, 2015 by eekz

[gavagai]

Fortunately, I do not think you can affect the client's setting with the server setting.

[eekz]

Flew few hours. The feature still needs improvements. It became just perfect at close range but at distance contacts still big and they disappear at some angles.

[Rain]

Indeed, its broken again... :mad:

 

Cant see anything, even though model enlargement is set on "large".

[fastfreddie]

In 1.5.1 it was bad because even on "small" setting you could see contacts at 50km and when close they flickered and looked bad.

 

In 1.5.2 I still did not figure out if the option is working. If they have put the option into mission settings I need to resave mission in 1.5.2 and see what will happen.

 

PS: now i resaved mission with NORMAL improved spotting setting and set NORMAL on server. If it does not work then it's not setting issue.

 

Yeah I hated the ability to see contacts from 50km away and they were bigger than when the LOD changed for close range. Hopefully the servers will get the ability to limit or ban that crap. TBH the best spotting addition was the MOD they used on the European server.

[TwilightZone]

TBH the best spotting addition was the MOD they used on the European server.

agree.....this was a fantastic MOD for spotting; if i remember correct the guys over at the ACG server, really well done.......:thumbup:

[HornedGod]

In 1.5.2 and 2.0 the pixel values used for each of the settings has gone in the completely opposite direction (so in 1.5.1 they were much bigger than 1.5, now in 1.5.2 they're smaller than 1.5). Details of what's changed can be found here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=154027