Best plane to get started

[Delerium]

Thanks folks.

 

I'm about to start the training for the Su-25.

 

I was wondering if all those birds can be played online? Like the A10-C and the Su-25 on the same mission for example?!

 

I'll the the Mig-21 in consideration a bit later on since it's not free.

 

Thanks!

[Fri13]

Hi folks,

 

I was wondering what is the best plane to get started? By that, I mean what is the the easiest one of all of them? I did try the A10C (bought it a while back) and it requires a huge learning.

 

I would start with Su-25T.

 

While it is free, it is non-clickable, it just simply is easy to get on-to for action and still gain enough depth in time to do many complex things that others can't do (yet, like Suppression of Enemy Air Defence aka SEAD).

 

You basically need to just learn just very few functions for air-to-ground combat, almost nothing for air-to-air combat and then just learn some different things for SEAD missions etc.

 

Did I remember to say that you have possibility to carry 16 Anti-Tank-Guided-Missiles (ATGM) that is very serious load, so if your time is limited, you still can blow more things up just by flying with it!

 

It is actually so easy that you need almost just the console joypad to get it going and fly from the coach. So the video below you can understand when trying totally new controller to fly an aircraft from longer distance to TV. Example having no TrackIR on that setup, I found Steam Controller to offer excellent secondary experience to look around (I almost preferred it over TrackIR....!) and I could only use the keyboard functions for rudder (X and Z) that I binded to controller grip buttons.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2522980&postcount=1

 

[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uYcIx8CqpLI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YOUTUBE]

 

I own all the other modules except WW2 era ones, C-101 and new L-39 and I still consider Su-25T the easiest one (after Su-25 actually, because it doesn't even have Shkval targeting system).

 

The Su-25T has the cockpit simplicity from Flaming Cliffs 3 serie, but flight modeling was upgraded to AFM level so you get excellent flight experience if wanted.

 

And there is bunch of simple guides to start, so no need to go trough flight manual etc. Example:

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=166298920

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=335149944

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=179368862

 

Of course the Official Eagle Dynamics tutorials in the DCS are excellent for Su-25T as well.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Fri13

[Fri13]

Thanks folks.

 

I'm about to start the training for the Su-25.

 

I was wondering if all those birds can be played online? Like the A10-C and the Su-25 on the same mission for example?!

 

Yes, of course you can. You need to just check the countries in alliances which one belongs to RED and which one to BLUE and what aircrafts they get. With those you rule what aircraft is possible to be on same side or just on enemy side.

[Delerium]

I would start with Su-25T.

 

While it is free, it is non-clickable, it just simply is easy to get on-to for action and still gain enough depth in time to do many complex things that others can't do (yet, like Suppression of Enemy Air Defence aka SEAD).

 

You basically need to just learn just very few functions for air-to-ground combat, almost nothing for air-to-air combat and then just learn some different things for SEAD missions etc.

 

Did I remember to say that you have possibility to carry 16 Anti-Tank-Guided-Missiles (ATGM) that is very serious load, so if your time is limited, you still can blow more things up just by flying with it!

 

It is actually so easy that you need almost just the console joypad to get it going and fly from the coach. So the video below you can understand when trying totally new controller to fly an aircraft from longer distance to TV. Example having no TrackIR on that setup, I found Steam Controller to offer excellent secondary experience to look around (I almost preferred it over TrackIR....!) and I could only use the keyboard functions for rudder (X and Z) that I binded to controller grip buttons.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2522980&postcount=1

 

[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uYcIx8CqpLI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YOUTUBE]

 

I own all the other modules except WW2 era ones, C-101 and new L-39 and I still consider Su-25T the easiest one (after Su-25 actually, because it doesn't even have Shkval targeting system).

 

The Su-25T has the cockpit simplicity from Flaming Cliffs 3 serie, but flight modeling was upgraded to AFM level so you get excellent flight experience if wanted.

 

And there is bunch of simple guides to start, so no need to go trough flight manual etc. Example:

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=166298920

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=335149944

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=179368862

 

Of course the Official Eagle Dynamics tutorials in the DCS are excellent for Su-25T as well.

 

I'm getting a bit confused with all the models to be honest. ;)

 

What's the main difference between the Su-25 and Su-25T? The "T" is a later variant more equipped / high tech?

[Sryan]

Alright, time to take away the confusion.

 

There's an SU25A ( what people just call the SU25 around here ) that's part of the FC3 pack you bought. it's low tech on avionics, but a great plane, fast for a ground mover, agile too. it still has some basic smart capabilities including CCIP and CCRP attacks ( the bomb drops where the pipper is at, OR put the pipper on the target, then HOLD the trigger untill the plane is in the correct position where it will drop the bombs by itself ) it can also launch laser guided missiles next to an assortment of 'dumb' weapons.

 

The SU25T is free. it's much more lump than the SU25A. slower, not as agile. That is because it's packed full of avionics. As such you'll have greater avionics. automatic pilot that can follow routes, hold altitudes and/or attitudes and even perform an automatic approach for landing, you only need to do the touch down. You also have acces to more precise munitions. Vikhr laserbeam riding anti tank missiles. TV guided bombs and Anti-radiation missiles ( missiles that will lock themselves onto radar sources ). You'll also have a TV screen in the cockpit that you can use to find targets and this also controls the laser rangerfinder and target designator. Like what I tipped you with the A10c, it's good to start simple with unguided weapons and then move on up. Still, both SU25's are CONSIDERABLY easier to fly and fight with than the A10C. They both have simplified avionics with non clickable cockpits.

 

The SU25A is what we call a pilot's plane. You focus on flying the plane, killing targets is a matter of "putting the thing on the thing" with all weapons.

 

The SU25T differs in that you can delegate flying tasks to the autopilot, and then spent saved time on working the avionics to fight.

 

Both are good, and both are fun, the T is the only plane in the game right now that is capable of releasing those anti-radiation missiles I mentioned. If you can fly one of them, you can pretty much fly the other as well, bare the Shkval ( TV screen + laser system ) and autopilot functions maybe.

 

 

here's a short video made by Eagle dynamics themselves about flying the SU25T. Originally intended as a showcase of DCSW 2.0 graphics technology. The plane is flying the SEAD/DEAD role ( supression/destruction of enemy air defenses, with those anti-radiation missiles I mentioned ). You can see the TV screen, not used for missions as these, and the modern hud.

 

and here's a video from Bunyap, one of the famous youtubers around here, about a minute before he perfoms an attack with cluster munitions on a column, with the old SU25A.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Sryan

[Fri13]

I'm getting a bit confused with all the models to be honest. ;)

 

What's the main difference between the Su-25 and Su-25T? The "T" is a later variant more equipped / high tech?

 

T is later variant and more like a prototype kind, only dozen or so were made and delivered. The T variant has couple extras like:

- It has a Shkval targeting system, the TV screen, same as in KA-50 attack helicopter.

- It has capability to fire Vikhr missiles, like KA-50. Most useful ATGM.

- Drop TV-guided bombs against buildings/bridges etc.

- It has capability to carry a Fantasmagoria ELINT pod, that allows to target radar ground units (You can slave Shkval and ELINT together)

- Capability to carry Mercury pod, that offers Low Light TV camera for low-light targeting.

- it has IR jammer against rear coming heat-seeking missiles

- Capability carry R-73 IR-missiles.

- Autopilot to help in attack runs and waypoint flying.

 

Otherwise fairly similar. The Su-25A is good starting point as well but with the same learning curve it is possible have more fun with a Su-25T by wider mission possibilities.

 

Bombing etc is just easier with Su-25T as it has both bomb release modes (CCIP/CCRP) with Shkval and so on with autopilot flying to release point etc.

Su-25A is great too, if wants to go more "down to earth" and "knife fighting".

Edited November 8, 2015 by Fri13

[TomOnSteam]

The best plane to get started with is the plane you want to fly most - it will be your passion to fly it that will help you learn any parts you find difficult.

 

 

Also I don't recommend any of the older planes, new planes are much easier to fly - there is a reason they all have stability computers and fly by wire :) Sure there are lot of systems in modern planes, but you don't need to touch any of them if you just want to fly.

 

 

Flying wise, by far, the F-15C is the easiest, it's a very low work load to just fly. The weapons systems aren't too hard to learn either, but there is a lot of strategy to learn in order to get really good so it's a plane you can pick up easily and it will keep you busy as you learn air to air combat.

 

 

Some beginners guides here: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tomlobster/myworkshopfiles/?section=guides

Edited November 8, 2015 by TomOnSteam

[DieHard]

Hi folks,

 

I was wondering what is the best plane to get started? By that, I mean what is the the easiest one of all of them? I did try the A10C (bought it a while back) and it requires a huge learning.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do understand that it's a simulator and there's a learning curve. I was just wondering if there one of the plane out there that is easier to learn and requires a bit less time to learn?!

 

My hobby time is, sadly, a bit limited: :(

 

Thanks, appreciated.

 

Ka-50! LOL Though, not a plane... :smartass:

[dburne]

Ka-50! LOL Though, not a plane... :smartass:

 

Absolutely LOL.

That is the one I am truly learning first, when I get proficient with it then I will tackle the A-10C next.

Figure I might as well start with a couple of the hardest first.

[TomOnSteam]

Absolutely LOL.

That is the one I am truly learning first, when I get proficient with it then I will tackle the A-10C next.

Figure I might as well start with a couple of the hardest first.

 

I find the Ka-50 being an easy aircraft to operate the systems in, but flying is something truly different, no matter what you have flown before.

[Delerium]

Hi,

 

I end up picking the Su-25T for now. I watched a small video and the fact that is has a HUD was a plus.

 

I watch all 10 tutorials on Steam (thanks for links!) and it got me going! I really need some practice since I can barely hit a target while trying to compose with the all keys shortcuts / buttons but I'll get used to it. :doh:

 

Only played about 2 hours for now, and hopefully I'll be able to play a bit more this week.

 

Anyhow, just wanted to thanks all of you for the advises you gave me, really appreciated. :thumbup:

 

Later.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Delerium

[Delerium]

Howdy,

 

First of, thanks to all who help me out. I'm having good time with the Su-25t and getting better.

 

When I launch the game, I always have my a-10c sitting there, waiting...

 

Like mention earlier on, I don't have that much time to sim these days but I will probably once the years is over.

 

I understand that the A-10A is a "low fidelity" implementation vs the full blown a-10c.

 

My question is: Does the a-10a and a-10c have enough similarities that what I could learn with the a-10a is transposable to the a-10c?

 

Also, I've tried to google/youtube for tutorial on the a-10a and can't seems to find a good series of videos like the one proposed for the su-25t? Is there anything similar available?

 

Thanks! ;)

[Gladman]

The A10A can offer you understanding of taking your time to identify threats first and non-threatening targets second. It can help with understanding of the flight envelope of the jet including takeoff and landing. A simple understand of weapons systems. The gun is the same.

 

Beyond that, you have an entirely different set of criteria for the A10C. The systems are extensive, yet with the proper tutelage can be fairly easy to learn. It takes a while to master no doubt. Once your good with firing weapons with the A10C then you can move onto things like LASTE settings, triangulation etc.

 

So, yeah, sure start with the A10A and have some fun, blow some stuff up. You will learn. Just be aware that the C will be a whole new animal.

[baltic_dragon]

Howdy,

 

First of, thanks to all who help me out. I'm having good time with the Su-25t and getting better.

 

When I launch the game, I always have my a-10c sitting there, waiting...

 

Like mention earlier on, I don't have that much time to sim these days but I will probably once the years is over.

 

I understand that the A-10A is a "low fidelity" implementation vs the full blown a-10c.

 

My question is: Does the a-10a and a-10c have enough similarities that what I could learn with the a-10a is transposable to the a-10c?

 

Also, I've tried to google/youtube for tutorial on the a-10a and can't seems to find a good series of videos like the one proposed for the su-25t? Is there anything similar available?

 

Thanks! ;)

 

Warning - when you go for the high - fidelity module (A-10C with clickable cockpit, three fully functional radios etc) it is likely you won't think about going back to FC3 type planes. The A10 is so rewarding, that moving to easier airframes just doesn't feel that good anymore...

Having said that - definitely go for A-10C!!

[Delerium]

Warning - when you go for the high - fidelity module (A-10C with clickable cockpit, three fully functional radios etc) it is likely you won't think about going back to FC3 type planes. The A10 is so rewarding, that moving to easier airframes just doesn't feel that good anymore...

Having said that - definitely go for A-10C!!

 

:)

 

In fact, I was wondering if the a-10a was a good transition to the a-10c. Until next year, I won't have time to dig the a-10c... So I'm learning the easier birds for now, on which I can have more "immediate" results. But I still plan on getting dirty with the a-10c for sure at a later time.

 

I was basically wondering if some aspect (weapon employment for example) of the a-10a was applicable to the a-10c as well.

 

If not, I might simply skip the a-10a ;)

 

- Rock on! :punk:

[King_Hrothgar]

The A-10A doesn't offer much insight into the nitty gritty of systems on the A-10C module, but is helpful I think. What the A-10A gives you is a way to practice flying the plane itself and using most of the weapons without having to worry about systems. This in turn makes learning the systems on the A-10C more a matter of button memorizing than actually learning how to fly the plane in combat. So yes, it is very helpful, especially if you are new to modern CFS's in general.

 

Not sure if I've mentioned this before in this thread, but you might want to give the Ka-50 a look. It is a full fidelity module but has much simpler systems compared to the A-10C. Its weapon system is nearly identical to the Su-25T's even though one is FC3 level and the other is DCS. So it's a very easy transition assuming you can manage flying a chopper. Obviously other parts are more complicated, such as radios, the datalink and setting custom waypoints. But those are still a lot less complicated than the A-10C.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

YOU NEED MIG-21 IN LIFE.

 

MIG-21 TEACH YOU GOOD HABITS.

 

MIG-21 GROW HAIR ON YOUR CHEST.

 

YOU LEARN MIG-21? YOU CAN LEARN ANYTHING.

 

MIG-21 EASY TO PICK UP, HARDER TO BECOME PROFICIENT.

 

FLY BY WIRE? BEYOND OF VISUALIZING RANGE? BAH. CONCEPTS THAT SOFTEN YOUR SKILLS.

 

MIG-21 WILL MAKE YOU SMOOTH OPERATOR. SMOOTHER THAN LADA BRAKE PAD.

[Simon81]

I'd recomend MIG-15 as a starter. First of all -it's a jet icon. With no complex avionics, pure pleasure hand fly. Aircraft that will finally teach You everythin' about the trimming. Will teach You respect for engine spool up. When You need to know how to navigate without RSBN, VOR, TACAN, ILS, or GPS that's a proper model to buy. All You need is a map, a clock, a compass, and some NDB's frequencies when You finally lose yourself completly. :P

[Kev2go]

It depends what you want to do exactly.

 

I'd recommend the f86f.

 

For me it was a starter jet before there were trainer jets in dcs.

 

F86 is fairly quick to learn and Imo gives you more monies worth than the mig15.

 

It's startup is arguably simple than the mig15 requiring only 2 buttons to start up the engine and moving up the throttle from off to idle positions.

 

 

F86 can be both either used for air to air or strike missions. And even has early Gen sidewinders. Gar8/aim9b.

 

It can arm both bombs and hvar rockets and missiles at the same time making it a multitude fighter. Combined with the Radar ranging gunsight makes it more accurate and precise aquiring air targets and for bombing than the mig.

 

Quite frankly f86 is a better investments then the l39 because it actually faster.

 

It's also fun pushing the f86 to its limit and going supersonic in dives, and knowing you can still safely pull out of said dive

[Simon81]

 

It's startup is arguably simple than the mig15 requiring only 2 buttons to start up the engine and moving up the throttle from off to idle positions.

 

 

 

It's also fun pushing the f86 to its limit and going supersonic in dives, and knowing you can still safely pull out of said dive

 

 

Those 2 reassons are disadvantage for me.

[piXel496]

Most important is which aircraft you find interesting. That makes your time in a particular cockpit happy spend.

 

The depth of PFM airplanes in DCS should not be interpreted as complex. Personally I find the A10-C a remarkable simulation creation since lockon and the benchmark for any airframe that followed in DCS. True you have to learn a few switches to take off and then some to use the rest of it's capabilities. But that in itself is a joy in every stage of the DCS experience. The next "landmark" release everyone is waiting for is the F18-C with carrier bells and wistles. This might take a year or two?

 

Today there are some truly great airplanes and helicopters, you just have to start with one.

 

 

 

.

[Ramsay]

I understand that the A-10A is a "low fidelity" implementation vs the full blown a-10c.

 

My question is: Does the a-10a and a-10c have enough similarities that what I could learn with the a-10a is transposable to the a-10c?

IMHO, as far as systems go - not really, you are mainly learning how FC3/LockOn key strokes apply to the A-10A. It's main advantage over say the free Su-25T would be western instruments with airspeed in knots, VVI in ft/min, ILS, etc. and learning A-10A/A-10C weapon types and their use (AGM-65=Maverick, etc.).

 

Learning combat tactics like 'pop up attacks', ingress, route planning, etc. are good, whichever ground attack aircraft you fly A-10A, Su-25T, A-10C, F-86, L-39C, etc., etc.

 

The same applies for general airmanship like crosswind landings, patterns, etc. although it is much harder to follow *real* procedures in a complex aircraft with a simplified system model (A-10A), rather than a simpler aircraft with an accurate system (F-86/L-39).

 

If time is short to learn the A-10C, there's nothing wrong with using hot ramp starts, quick start or air starts and just starting on one aspect of the A-10C. It's certainly how I learn/teach - else it's too much to learn in one bite.

 

Also, I've tried to google/youtube for tutorial on the a-10a and can't seems to find a good series of videos like the one proposed for the su-25t? Is there anything similar available?

Best I can think of for the A-10A, would be Bunyap Sims and it'll give you a good indication of what to expect from the A-10A

 

In_ewYmeg9o

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ramsay
inc. A-10A for learning A-10C weapon types

[badaboom]

L-39 is a Very Well Done Trainer

[hannibal]

i say any craft is good as long as you can hookup with someone on teamspeak and on multiplayer.. made great discoveries by learning from others.

[Sryan]

it sounds like the OP wants to learn how to fly the A10C in any other way than actually flying the A10C. I guess we should break the spell and state that there is no plane in the game that requires skills transitionable to the A10C other than how a flight stick works.

 

I understand the desire for "immediate results" and all that. Like most of us, you got limited time to spend on hobbies and during that time you want to be entertained and not frustrated. But my advice still stands that you're probably best of working the A10C.

 

- If you don't want to learn how to start the A10C, just use the autostart function ( windows + HOME key ). You can use left ( ALT,CTRL,SHIFT ) + Z to adjust the speed of time so you don't need to wait the full 5 minutes for it to get started.

 

- go to options and then turn on labels. enemies are now having a mark above their heads visible up to 20km out. Now you don't need to rely on your electronics like the TGP, a sharp eye or talk ons by JTACs to find enemies. you can see them easily.

 

- go to your harddrive, then program files -> Eagle dynamics -> DCS world -> mods -> A10C - doc. Here you can find the quickstart guide. Skip the first 21 pages, immediatly start on page 22. You are now facing a guide that explains to you how to work with the A10C as simple as possible. You are introduced to instruments as you need them. All but the most crucial of terminology has been left out. The guide focuses as much on the HUD and the two big colordisplays as possible, and you can work your way through the entire content of the guide flicking only 4 physical switches in the cockpit. you got the BIG advantage that you got the thrustmaster warthog flightstick. If you have two+ screens, open page 87 of the full manual side by side so you don't need to learn the keyboard controls as mentioned in the quickguide but learn what button it is on the stick immediatly. If you don't have 2 screens you can scroll to the bottom, page 39 or so of the quickguide and see the controls for your specific stick as well.

 

- there's 4 things mentioned in the guide, some of them pretty early on, that you can skip when you're first starting. SOI ( sensor of interest ), SPI ( sensor point of interest ), Target designation using the HUD and lastly, Target designation using the TGP ( targetting pod ). These are mostly important for precision guided weapons. You can learn to use the simple weapons first, perhaps the maverick guided missiles then ( it can work with the complexities I just mentioned, but also without ) and then come back to these to drop laser or gps guided ordnance.

 

that's the best tip I can give, since I can read you're passionate about the A10 and thats the plane you ultimatly want to be succesful at. Just make a simple mission where you take off, take out a couple of trucks with the various weapons, and then land. If you're unable to do so, I or the community can make you something simple. Buying other modules or spending time on the FC3 A10 is only gonna postpone that succes.