DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Better to bang out a new fuel tank than to rebuild entire sections of fuselage, wing, and landing gear.

[mattebubben]

There is also a story of a Norweigan F-5 landing on its wing tanks during the winter without any damage to the fuselage (they just had to lift it up so it could lower the gears then it was all good again.

 

The Norweigan incident though was not due to any equipment faliure it was just a failiure of the pilot to lower the gears before landing.

[El Hadji]

The Viggen is a war machine. It's not supposed to be pretty. Eventhough I prefer the splinter camo, I still think this bare metal AJS 37 looks pretty good:

 

http://www.e-pic.se/keyword/AJS;viggen/

 

I'm pretty sure the plane in those pictures (civilian registration SE-DXN for the plane spotters) is the AJS that Leatherneck will get most of their data and characteristics from. http://swafhf.se/37-se-dxn.html

[mattebubben]

The Viggen is a war machine. It's not supposed to be pretty. Eventhough I prefer the splinter camo, I still think this bare metal AJS 37 looks pretty good:

 

http://www.e-pic.se/keyword/AJS;viggen/

 

I'm pretty sure the plane in those pictures (civilian registration SE-DXN for the plane spotters) is the AJS that Leatherneck will get most of their data and characteristics from. http://swafhf.se/37-se-dxn.html

 

 

Personally i think the grey JA-37 Looks the best =).

 

And in my eyes its probably the best looking jet fighter there is =).

 

[RaXha]

Personally i think the grey JA-37 Looks the best =).

 

And in my eyes its probably the best looking jet fighter there is =).

 

It's definitiely one of the most brutal looking ones! :D

[Dahlbeck]

Fighters should be pointy. The Viggen is the pointiest there is. :-D

[Manuel_108]

The Viggen is a war machine. It's not supposed to be pretty. Eventhough I prefer the splinter camo, I still think this bare metal AJS 37 looks pretty good:

 

http://www.e-pic.se/keyword/AJS;viggen/

 

I'm pretty sure the plane in those pictures (civilian registration SE-DXN for the plane spotters) is the AJS that Leatherneck will get most of their data and characteristics from. http://swafhf.se/37-se-dxn.html

 

I can feel the brute force just by looking at those pictures.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

It's beastly, yet stylish. Ugly is not an adjective I'd ascribe to it from any angle.

[F l a n k e r]

Very impressive photos! Thanks for sharing! I like them, a little bit Photoshop Shadow/Hilight filtered... The Viggen is one of my favorite aircraft!

[OziRekt]

It's a shame the AJ-37 never got the internal cannon the JA-37 did. The Oerlikon KCA was 30x173mm, same as the A-10s GAU-8 Avenger. That's would have been good fun in DCS

[Hook47]

It's a shame the AJ-37 never got the internal cannon the JA-37 did. The Oerlikon KCA was 30x173mm, same as the A-10s GAU-8 Avenger. That's would have been good fun in DCS

 

Bummer... What was gained by sacrificing the cannon? Anything besides less weight?

 

There is also a story of a Norweigan F-5 landing on its wing tanks during the winter without any damage to the fuselage (they just had to lift it up so it could lower the gears then it was all good again.

 

The Norweigan incident though was not due to any equipment faliure it was just a failiure of the pilot to lower the gears before landing.

 

LOL! Awesome

 

Someone (I think it was former commander-in-chief and air force general Owe Wiktorin) described it with the more or less untranslatable word "fulsnygg", which I think fits perfectly. It's a moniker for a person who is attractive despite having features that would normally be regarded as ugly or at least not conventionally beautiful.

 

Unlike a lot of fighter aircraft which have this sleek, graceful look going on, the Viggen is big, fat, angular, stubby-tailed and has weird bulges all over. It looks like it's been pumping iron at the gym. Nevertheless, from certain angles it can look downright elegant.

 

Awesome anacdote, thank you for that! I think that sums up how the Viggen looks perfectly... It's beefy yet elegant look is growing on me by the day, I just can't wait to see LNS rendition of this bird. They really picked a winner with this aircraft, it is going to bring so much more to this sim

Edited January 12, 2016 by Hook47

[BravoYankee4]

Bummer... What was gained by sacrificing the cannon? Anything besides less weight?

 

There wasn't any sacrifice - more improvement since the JA was developed after the AJ. I.e that it was considered as sufficient to have the external gun pods when they designed the Viggen. Obviosuly that decision was reconsidered when designing the interceptor version.

 

The Aden cannons (30x113 mm) used in the external gun pods are not as good. The same gun as used in J-32 Lansen, J-34 Hawker Hunter and J-35 Draken by the way.

Edited January 12, 2016 by BravoYankee4

[mattebubben]

Bummer... What was gained by sacrificing the cannon? Anything besides less weight?

 

 

 

LOL! Awesome

 

 

 

Awesome anacdote, thank you for that! I think that sums up how the Viggen looks perfectly... It's beefy yet elegant look is growing on me by the day, I just can't wait to see LNS rendition of this bird. They really picked a winner with this aircraft, it is going to bring so much more to this sim

 

 

You have to remember the AJ-37 viggen was developed in the 60s.

 

A time where many thought (incorrectly) that the "gun" was a thing of the past of airplanes.

 

And the Idea initially was for the Aj-37 to only use modern guided munitions as anything else was considerd obsolete

and as such a gun was seen as un needed.

 

Especially since the AJ-37 was supposed to fly at high speeds at low altitudes to the target before pulling upp making a single pass (or at most 2) dropping all the ordnance and then haul ass back to friendly lines.

 

And as such the cannon was not deemed to be needed for that task.

 

However during the development faze and work with the hud / targeting systems it was realised that with the help of said systems "dumb" munitions like rockets and bombs could be far more accurate then was capable with older aircraft (without the advanced targeting computers).

 

And as such Rocket pods and Dumb bombs were added to the list of weapons during the late stage of the development faze.

 

The Gun pods were also added during this period but it was deemed that redesigning the aircraft at this stage just to add a gun would cause delays and costs without improving its capabillities alot.

 

A gun is something that is usefull when doing cas in that you can circle an area and do gun runs longer then other ordnance might last (rockets / bombs)

 

But since the viggens main task was to do high speed in and out raids the abillity to carry a gun was not needed for that task.

 

The Gun pods were added to give more options and capabillities and it was deemed a better option then redesigning the AJ-37 for the gun.

 

And during the 60s swedish engineers where not alone in the thinking of the gun being outdated just take the F-4 like an example.

 

But by the time the Ja-37 was being developed it had again been proven

(in Vietnam,Six-Day War and the Yom Kippur war etc) that the gun was still very needed in air-air combat.

Edited January 12, 2016 by mattebubben

[MBot]

Anybody knows if the AJ-37 HUD displays targeting cues when using the Aden-pods against air targets? Does the radar support air-air ranging for the gunpods?

[QuiGon]

Anybody knows if the AJ-37 HUD displays targeting cues when using the Aden-pods against air targets? Does the radar support air-air ranging for the gunpods?

 

I kinda doubt that it is possible to lock on air targets at all. But I can be wrong of course.

[OnlyforDCS]

It's really interesting to see so many comments and questions on the Air to Air capabilities of the AJS Viggen. :)

 

I think Leatherneck should maybe seriously consider making a JA variant as well. I'm pretty sure that I would buy the JA variant in a heartbeat, not so sure about the groundpounder/recon AJS variant though. Although I will probably purchase it at a later date to support development of my beloved F-14.

[BravoYankee4]

It's really interesting to see so many comments and questions on the Air to Air capabilities of the AJS Viggen. :)

 

I think Leatherneck should maybe seriously consider making a JA variant as well. I'm pretty sure that I would buy the JA variant in a heartbeat, not so sure about the groundpounder/recon AJS variant though. Although I will probably purchase it at a later date to support development of my beloved F-14.

Yes, both JA and AJ would be really nice. If we could have the data-link properly simulated it would be a really tough competition to any other planes from the same era, regardless of missile alternatives.

 

If the AJS module sells good enough that might inspire LNS to do the JA as well?

[Jediteo]

Anybody knows if the AJ-37 HUD displays targeting cues when using the Aden-pods against air targets? Does the radar support air-air ranging for the gunpods?

 

The radar can be used to detect aircraft but not "lock" them like a normal fighter radar. The sight calculations for the guns are either based on a fixed range of 500 m and an adjustable wingspan of the target, or the radar can be used to determine the range.

 

Enable the radar ranging by depressing and releasing the fix trigger to the first detent when the target is in the sight reticule .

[WinterH]

Although I personally much prefer AJS, I'd buy JA too.

 

However, differences between two are really substantial, may be to the level that from a developer's perspective it can be doing a whole new module. So as much as I'd like to see, I'm not sure if LN would consider doing it soon.

[QuiGon]

An additional JA37 module would be pretty awesome. I would have no problem if that would be another full price module given the differences in the two variants of the Viggen.

[TomCatMucDe]

An additional JA37 module would be pretty awesome. I would have no problem if that would be another full price module given the differences in the two variants of the Viggen.

 

it is a low hanging fruit to do. For sure the Air to Air systems are different, but there is indeniably a lot of reuse from the AJS37.

 

These 2 together with the MiG21, Mi8, KA50, M2000, A10C, F5 and F14 we can do credible war scenarios with jet of more or less the same period. Without, or with small numbers of FC3 aircrafts!

[T0x1s]

Here is a video of SK60(a Swedish training jet) excising a typical Viggen attack maneuver where the plane is coming in at low altitude and then do a steep climb, roll over, then back again, fires of the armament quickly and then RTB.

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

This is what the Viggen was designed for and its why it did not have any cannon :)

[TomCatMucDe]

I said a lot of systems are different, but the FM should be quite similar and surely needs tweaking, the external frame so is very similar, the control surfaces as well.

 

It is surely not like starting from scratch. It's a simulation so a lot of the real systems are faked anyways. I don't diminish the amount of work to be done but it would be faster for them to do the AJ than let's say an Tornado, F4 or an F16

[Kilrah]

An additional JA37 module would be pretty awesome. I would have no problem if that would be another full price module given the differences in the two variants of the Viggen.

 

+1 Same here!

[Zakatak]

I'm going to be beta testing the Viggen tomorrow, I can't wait!

 

(a Saab 9-3 Viggen but that's pretty much the same thing, right?)