Pilum Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I've always wondered about one thing, I'm not sure I should bother anyone with it, but maybe someone is bored and know a lot about aerodynamics... So the thing is: Why is it that the Viggen seems to have such a large wing surface area, yet it doesn't seem to turn much better (any better?) than for example a F-4 Phantom which has sort of small-ish wings - or more regular sized wings one might say. I know the wing area isn't the only thing determining lift, but I've just always wondered why they decided to design the Viggen's wings that way, with such large area. My best guess is that it has something to do with providing lots of lift at slow speeds to shorten take-offs? I don't really have any idea what I'm talking about now, but from my layman's perspective I guess it makes sense that a large wing area with a low camber would be able to give a lot of lift at slow speeds if the alpha is high enough, while also providing relatively little drag at high speeds. Is that what's going on here or am I way off? There was actually a discussion about the Viggen turn rate earlier in this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2769114&postcount=1781 The turn rate discussion goes on for some pages after that including some nice climb and acceleration charts on page 182. :) Old Crow ECM motto: Those who talk don't know and those who know don't talk........ http://www.crows.org/about/mission-a-history.html Pilum aka Holtzauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra847 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 BTW, is there any chance we can get the Viggen Manual 1-2 weeks earlier then the release ? Like they did it with the f5e. That way we could blow up the entire russian invasion fleet on day 1 :joystick::pilotfly: :D This is likely, but you'll also have many "walkthrough" videos and streams to learn from which will be released quickly one after another prior to release. Nicholas Dackard Founder & Lead Artist Heatblur Simulations https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkbrotherhood7 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 This is likely, but you'll also have many "walkthrough" videos and streams to learn from which will be released quickly one after another prior to release. Thanks, glad to hear that. :) Mission: "To intercept and destroy aircraft and airborne missiles in all weather conditions in order to establish and maintain air superiority in a designated area. To deliver air-to-ground ordnance on time in any weather condition. And to provide tactical reconaissance imagery" - F-14 Tomcat Roll Call [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 This is likely, but you'll also have many "walkthrough" videos and streams to learn from which will be released quickly one after another prior to release. When? :D Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BravoYankee4 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 When? :D Two weeks I assume ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCatMucDe Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 When? :D "get ready to be bombarded by videos and marketing material" that was a year ago. Wait for another one :P kidding. :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microvax Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 This is likely, but you'll also have many "walkthrough" videos and streams to learn from which will be released quickly one after another prior to release. *glowing eyes* The hype will be real. :lol: Thx for the info though ! :) Literally cant wait, lectures for uni start in early to mid october. xD [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Sized Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 What options are there for targeting the glide bombs? In other words, do we have to type coordinates into the INS or are there alternate methods? (i.e. using the HUD to designate a target like in the A-10/Mirage) DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule. In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microvax Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 What options are there for targeting the glide bombs? In other words, do we have to type coordinates into the INS or are there alternate methods? (i.e. using the HUD to designate a target like in the A-10/Mirage) Someone said it has a target of oppotunity mode more like a traditional bomb, so possible. But main mode of release is just by coordinates afaik. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Sized Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Someone said it has a target of oppotunity mode more like a traditional bomb, so possible. But main mode of release is just by coordinates afaik. Sort of related: Anyone know how the radar is integrated with the weapons in general? Let's say you find a cluster of parked tanks on the scope. Is that information sent to any of the weapons systems or does it simply act as a map? DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule. In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanTelefon Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Sort of related: Anyone know how the radar is integrated with the weapons in general? Let's say you find a cluster of parked tanks on the scope. Is that information sent to any of the weapons systems or does it simply act as a map? The radar can't find ground targets. It's used for navigation and finding naval targets mainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microvax Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Sort of related: Anyone know how the radar is integrated with the weapons in general? Let's say you find a cluster of parked tanks on the scope. Is that information sent to any of the weapons systems or does it simply act as a map? that is the a2g radar you are getting. You can spot things the size of a antenna mast, you can spot big terrain features and a well experienced operator may spot an aircraft afaik, but the max range resolution you can put it on is 15km, so imagine the part of 15km a tank is on that screen. So yeah, it acts as a map afaik for most of the time. But for RBS15 programming you actually have a cursor on the radar image so dunno. We will see. But for sure it will be stil up to you to manually interpret the image you are getting. Since Leatherneck has implemented raycasting and implemented different reflective characteristics for different objects, well possible that a experienced observer can kinda make things out, but there is nothing like target recognition by the radar or anything in that regard. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microvax Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 The radar can't find ground targets. It's used for navigation and finding naval targets mainly. Well Leatherneck devs said you may spot aircrafts if you are a experienced operator iirc. So maybee you can spot a helicopter since its reflecting more then the average soil, but for a tank I do not have my hopes high. I guess its possible to make out target groupings since the reflection from that area should be stronger but no hopes for indifvidual targets tbh. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boopidoo Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) Not to bash your performance or anything but a lot of the simulators in museums etc use an extremly simple flight model that wouldn't represent the difficulty of landing it properly. LOL the simulator was not something in a museum. It was THE simulator the pilots used. Back then (early 90's) I don't think museums even had simulators. I did get guidance from an instructor over intercom but the cockpit was the JA37 cockpit which had its own hydraulics system. The computers were housed in a separate room. Again not trying to show off, rather the opposite. My recollection of the 5-6 flights I did was that it was surprisingly easy to fly. All of us that was part of the Air Force Youth got to fly the simulator. I got lucky and got to fly it several times. The attached picture is of me from those days, I thought I was really cool (back then) posing next to a JA37 in my Ray-Bans. :) Edited August 26, 2016 by boopidoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boopidoo Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I can't remember reading that low-alpha landings was a design criterion for Viggen? I might misremember or missed it but all I can remember reading is the short-field requirements (<500m), and that the design should be mechanically simple (ruling out variable wings), "good maneuverability" and then nothing else. Don't know what is considered low alpha while landing and if 12 or 15,5 degrees qualify as low or high but a short Google-search for comparison gives the F-4 at about 10 degrees and the F-18 at 8 degrees when landing at a carrier. Since this has come up before I think it's important to get the right expectation of how the Viggen flies and understand the trade-off of the severe induced drag that is inherent in its design. I suggest reading more on Wikipedia on the topics of induced drag or aspect ratio or searching for "Aerodynamics of the Viggen 37 aircraft". If nothing else you might want to read this interview with a Viggen pilot: http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/swedish-air-force-historic-flight-cockpit.html It was from a documentary and wiki but low AOA is probably only if you compare to delta wings without canard configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skjold Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 LOL the simulator was not something in a museum. It was THE simulator the pilots used. Back then (early 90's) I don't think museums even had simulators. I did get guidance from an instructor over intercom but the cockpit was the JA37 cockpit which had its own hydraulics system. The computers were housed in a separate room. Again not trying to show off, rather the opposite. My recollection of the 5-6 flights I did was that it was surprisingly easy to fly. All of us that was part of the Air Force Youth got to fly the simulator. I got lucky and got to fly it several times. The attached picture is of me from those days, I thought I was really cool (back then) posing next to a JA37 in my Ray-Bans. :) Fair enough, you didnt specificy in your OP what simulator or what decade this was in, nor where it was etc. :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renhanxue Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Today I (and probably many other regular posters in this thread) went to the Swedish Air Force 90th anniversary air show. Today was a good day. (I don't have a telephoto lens so go elsewhere for your hot Viggen closeup pics) Edited August 27, 2016 by renhanxue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impact480 Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 It sure was a great show! Mig-21 - Mig 15 - Mi-8 - F-86 - FC3 - Ka-50 - CA - L39 - Hawk - M2K - NTTR - A10C - FW190 - L39 - F-5E - AJS 37 - Normandy - F/A-18C - Persian Gulf - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsvinet Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Got lots of great pictures of the viggens, makes me excited for the digital rendition of it. (And I spent much time close to the Blackhawks... hehe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reilar Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) It sure was a fine day. Edited August 28, 2016 by reilar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MA_Goblin Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Really great day :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] _____________Semper paratus, In hoc signo vinces________________ PC: Intel i7-8700K (4.9 GHz), Aorus Ultra Gaming Z370 MB, Gigabyte RTX 3080, 32 GB DDR3 (3,2 GHz), Samsung EVO 860 M.2 500 GB SSD + Samsung 960 M.2 250 GB SSD Gaming: Virpil T-50 CM2, TM WH Throttle, Crosswind pedals, HP Reverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skjold Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Was indeed a great show, sadly have a shitty camera so just photos of static displays really :) Nice to see a Viggen flying again, last time was sometime in the early 2000s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmaner Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 beautiful show. And cool to see the viggen irl for the first time. Think it was by far the loudest plane on the show :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaXha Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 beautiful show. And cool to see the viggen irl for the first time. Think it was by far the loudest plane on the show :D The SAAB 35 Draken usualy gives it a good run for it's money when it comes to being loud, but it's probably a close call. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattebubben Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Yea a great show. And great weather =). (some wind but otherwise amazing) Was lucky enough to stand in the right location for the landings so caught the entire 5 group as they landed (Gripen,Viggen,Draken,Tunnan,Sk60 etc) so was able to get some cool pictures as they landed as they flew over me at very low altitude when they were on short final. (flew over the walkpath just a few sec before touchdown). Dont have a great camera but at that short range even my camera could catch them xD. But yea just got home after a long Train ride back north. And the weather for those that went today was not as nice ^^. Edited August 28, 2016 by mattebubben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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