AV-8B Harrier Thread

[Pikey]

I have a question on the AGM-65E that may seem stupid. So the A10C from ED never got this and I heard there was some obscure reason, but I didn't know why. Is there any percieved problem with modelling this weapon for the AV-8BNA?

[Revelation]

I have a question on the AGM-65E that may seem stupid. So the A10C from ED never got this and I heard there was some obscure reason, but I didn't know why. Is there any percieved problem with modelling this weapon for the AV-8BNA?

 

If I remember correctly it was a contract issue where the ANG did not want it modeled in game.

 

RAZBAM would not be beholden to that contract, you simply won't see it on the A-10C.

[Vitormouraa]

Same goes for the Hornet, which is planned at this moment.

[Sport]

Same goes for the Hornet, which is planned at this moment.

 

I think the Hornet is going to have the Echo Mav, is it not? My understanding was it was the integration with the A-10C that wasn't approved for public release

[Vitormouraa]

Yeah it is planned, hopefully it will be available after the beta.

[Sierra99]

The TGP is not used as a direct target selector. It can be used indirectly as a laser designator so that either the missile seeker, for the E, or the DMT (for Laser/IR/CCD missiles in the NA) track the spot and locks the missile to the target.

 

DMT and radar are the primary target acquisition and designation sensors.

INS can be used as a secondary target designation sensor.

 

The AV-8 N/A doesnt use the TGP in the same manner the A-10C does?

[Kev2go]

I guess they are, thanks a lot for these :)

 

also if interested, the NAtops flight manual found here

 

https://info.publicintelligence.net/AV-8B-000.pdf

[Zeus67]

The AV-8 N/A doesnt use the TGP in the same manner the A-10C does?

 

No, it does not. My understanding after reading the Technical Manual is that it is mainly used to laser designate a target. The aircraft's onboard sensors see the laser spot and do the rest.

[Askerov24]

[Vitormouraa]

Great vid, thanks for sharing!

[Manzanita]

 

Awesome video. Those things are impressively accurate.

[Dudikoff]

No, it does not. My understanding after reading the Technical Manual is that it is mainly used to laser designate a target. The aircraft's onboard sensors see the laser spot and do the rest.

 

I think it's worth repeating what you've said before here - without the TGP's (which were added around 2002), the AV-8B's had no way of self designating targets for their laser guided Mavericks.

 

I presume that by the time the Litening pods were introduced, there were no DA's left as most of them were upgraded to NA or Radar configurations and the remainder retired (though not sure by which date exactly were these withdrawn from service?).

 

Here's an interesting excerpt from the Harrier Boys book. (A really good read BTW). My understanding is that during the Gulf War, when the first targeting pods were ever being used, having the ARBS/DMT system equipped was a huge advantage for Harrier pilots since radar attacks were apparently less accurate and targeting pods were scarce and still undergoing testing.

 

Interesting read, thanks for posting. It seems they did the most of having the ARBS/DMT for dropping their ordnance, though I presume the desert conditions were ideal for the DMT sensor (which is based on a TV camera and requires enough contrast between the target and it's surroundings to track).

Edited June 17, 2017 by Dudikoff

[Askerov24]

Great vid, thanks for sharing!

 

:) You are welcome

 

Awesome video. Those things are impressively accurate.

 

Yup, hope to see it in DCS :)

[iLOVEwindmills]

So using LGBs from level flight against a target of opportunity. I'm curious from what altitude this would be possible by using the 'mark target with TGP, spot laser with DMT, drop LGB with CCRP' method.

 

Now the only number I was able to find for a laser spot tracker was the Pave Penny, which has a quoted 'max' range of 37km, and I imagine ARBS would be similar if not more sensitive. ARBS can also gimbal up to 70 degrees down, so I think it should make a level LGB attack possible from pretty much any altitude right?

 

It would also make buddy lasing and IDing targets to friendlies very straightforward. Anyone knows if the DMT can recognize different laser codes?

[Zeus67]

Anyone knows if the DMT can recognize different laser codes?

 

Yes. In fact it is SOP for the pilo to set the system's laser code as soon as he is airborne.

[Torso]

I saw in the uploaded F/A-18 vid they have the canopy iridescent effect dialed in. I am gonna guess you have or will have the Harrier's dialed in the same. Effect looks really nice. Can't wait to see screens of the Harrier once dialed in as well on it.

 

Really cool.

[Airj247]

It's also several months away :p

[Zeus67]

Okay folks, here is the deal. I was getting ready to do the Maverick target lock and firing test when I realized something:

 

 

The TDC is not working as it should. The TDC code was a quick job so we could have a demo for E3, but now I must deal with the real deal:

The AV-8B (DA, NA and Radar) does not have one TDC. It actually has TWO! One is called the "Action TDC" and the other one is the "Non-Action TDC" and both TDCs are handled by the same button. If you press the button, you use one and if you don't press the button you use the other one.

 

 

Confused? It gets better.

 

 

The AV-8B has at least two sensors (NA and Radar has three). Each sensor has TDC capability. So the aircraft must keep track of which sensor is being used at this time regardless of whatever display you have in the MPCDs.

 

 

Nice, right? And I'm not even using the TGP yet!

 

 

Yes, the TGP adds another complexity layer to the whole TDC problem because the aircraft DOES NOT RECOGNIZE the TGP as a sensor. Yes it is a sensor pod, but for the aircraft it is just another load in a pylon. So when you are using the TGP, there are THREE submodes for using the TDC with the TGP and one of those disconnects the aircraft trim!! And all that is without slaving the TGP to an inboard sensor!

 

 

And now I have a headache and will sort this whole mess on Monday.

[Airj247]

Sounds fun!

[jojo]

Okay folks, here is the deal. I was getting ready to do the Maverick target lock and firing test when I realized something:

 

 

The TDC is not working as it should. The TDC code was a quick job so we could have a demo for E3, but now I must deal with the real deal:

The AV-8B (DA, NA and Radar) does not have one TDC. It actually has TWO! One is called the "Action TDC" and the other one is the "Non-Action TDC" and both TDCs are handled by the same button. If you press the button, you use one and if you don't press the button you use the other one.

 

 

Confused? It gets better.

 

 

The AV-8B has at least two sensors (NA and Radar has three). Each sensor has TDC capability. So the aircraft must keep track of which sensor is being used at this time regardless of whatever display you have in the MPCDs.

 

 

Nice, right? And I'm not even using the TGP yet!

 

 

Yes, the TGP adds another complexity layer to the whole TDC problem because the aircraft DOES NOT RECOGNIZE the TGP as a sensor. Yes it is a sensor pod, but for the aircraft it is just another load in a pylon. So when you are using the TGP, there are THREE submodes for using the TDC with the TGP and one of those disconnects the aircraft trim!! And all that is without slaving the TGP to an inboard sensor!

 

 

And now I have a headache and will sort this whole mess on Monday.

 

Would it be possible that this mess is due to "early" TGP addition. Would it be possible that the TGP has been better integrated in later upgrade ?

[Zeus67]

Would it be possible that this mess is due to "early" TGP addition. Would it be possible that the TGP has been better integrated in later upgrade ?

 

The TGP TDC? Not likely. Integration would have gone the other way, for the aircraft recognizing the TGP as a sensor and thus providing direct interaction between it and the aircraft's weapons.

[jojo]

That's what I meant. Most available manuals are early 2000'

 

Maybe someone with knowledge of current Harrier can tell us if it's still that complicated or if the TGP has been properly integrated at last ?

[frixon28]

Okay folks, here is the deal. I was getting ready to do the Maverick target lock and firing test when I realized something:

 

 

The TDC is not working as it should. The TDC code was a quick job so we could have a demo for E3, but now I must deal with the real deal:

The AV-8B (DA, NA and Radar) does not have one TDC. It actually has TWO! One is called the "Action TDC" and the other one is the "Non-Action TDC" and both TDCs are handled by the same button. If you press the button, you use one and if you don't press the button you use the other one.

 

 

Confused? It gets better.

 

 

The AV-8B has at least two sensors (NA and Radar has three). Each sensor has TDC capability. So the aircraft must keep track of which sensor is being used at this time regardless of whatever display you have in the MPCDs.

 

 

Nice, right? And I'm not even using the TGP yet!

 

 

Yes, the TGP adds another complexity layer to the whole TDC problem because the aircraft DOES NOT RECOGNIZE the TGP as a sensor. Yes it is a sensor pod, but for the aircraft it is just another load in a pylon. So when you are using the TGP, there are THREE submodes for using the TDC with the TGP and one of those disconnects the aircraft trim!! And all that is without slaving the TGP to an inboard sensor!

 

 

And now I have a headache and will sort this whole mess on Monday.

 

And they said the A-10 was complex....

[Vitormouraa]

But it is, A-10C systems are just easier to use, but remember, the suite we have in DCS is the suite 3.

 

I haven't found yet any aircraft with similar A/G capabilities that has better systems than the A-10C in terms of usage. A-10C systems are very simple to use, the interface as well, it's perfect IMO.

 

Harrier and Hornet avionics don't seem to be as friendly as the A-10C.

[jojo]

We will see for Hornet.

 

As far as I am concerned, I found VRS F/A-18E Super Hornet more user friendly than DCS A-10C.