Aircrafts NEED for DCS

[TIGER]

Hi Everyone

 

I wanted to write about the modules of DCS. I see lately that are some projects in WIP and the problem is that I dont see Quality Aircraft that need it in DCS.

I can give an example....

At the moment we have the FC3 - F-86 - Mig 15 - Mig-21 - Mirage 2000C and some other parties are making the HAWK (can be used only for Aerobatic Festival) and also the C-101.

When ALL servers that are online are with missions or Online campaigns.

 

There is a lack of multirole aircrafts.

 

I see the parties that are making aircraft that CANNOT survive in Aerial war.

When F-86 came up, little bit after the Mig-15 came up also.

as this example they must have. to make something to be for the opposite side.

Here is Mig-21. But......Where is F-4E or Mirage III????

We have the KA-50. Was it dificult for a Mil MI-24 or an AH-64A or AH-1 Cobra?

I see Viggen. Believe me if it was Jas-39 Grippen, Oh yes I am going to buy it.

F-14 is still in Progress. But when will come up. I believe the half servers will crash from the Spamming of AIM-54's. Then give us the Mig-35 then too.

 

In my opinion. What should be come up in DCS must be Aircraft & helicopters that can fight.

 

SU-27SM edition / Mig-23 / F/A-18C or E / Jas-39 Grippen / EuroFighter / F-16A MISP or C / F-4E / TornadoIDS&ECR / F-15E/F / Mil MI-24 / AH-64A / Mirage 2000-5 / Rafale / F-117 / F-5E / A-7E / A-6 / F-8 Crusader

 

I believe it can be more like aircraft from 2nd WorldWar.

Just I prefere to give money to aircrafts that i can participate in Servers/Tournaments/Online Campaigns than to aircraft just to walk around. If I want to walk around I go to FSX.

 

With all due respect to all I understand they are doing hard work to pleased all of us and I congradulate them, I wrote all this because i dont want to see things like FSX. Here is DCS

Digital COMBAT Simulation.

 

Thank you.

 

PS. If I said something bad or insulted anyone on this thread. I apollogise.

Edited January 20, 2016 by [TIGER]
A-7E and A-6 added

[hannibal]

patience grasshopper...

[rrohde]

All good points, can't argue that.

[cichlidfan]

We have a rather extensive wish list, too! :)

[Ultra]

F-15C vs SU-27S vs Mig-29S

Mirage 2000C vs Mig-29A

Mig-15 vs F-86

P-51 vs Fw 190 vs Bf 109

A-10A vs. SU-25A

A-10C vs SU-25T

Huey vs Mi-8

 

The Mig-21 is receiving the F-5E as a counterpart in the future.

Ka-50 is the only other one that doesn't really have a counterpart.

 

The expanded variety will come in the future.

 

I doubt people will just spam Aim-54s. They aren't like Aim-120s

Edited January 20, 2016 by Ultra

[mpdugas]

 

I doubt people will just spam Aim-54s. They aren't like Aim-120s

 

I think a single AN/AWG-9 aircraft can launch and engage six targets by AIM-54s simultaneously...hopefully, the simulated AIM-54 will be more successful for LNS than it was for the USN and USAF.

[Devrim]

I won't join the debate. :) I just want to declare that I want to fly only two modules in this simulator: Apache (any model) and F-4 (any model).

Got out. :P

[OnlyforDCS]

 

I doubt people will just spam Aim-54s. They aren't like Aim-120s

 

Nope, they aren't. Neither are any of the DCS BVR missiles. So the chances of the Aim54 being anything other than horribly mediocre in DCS are very, very slim at best.

[Darkwolf]

When i see people raising the terminology and say "I want only COMBAT stuff", i laugh a lot thinking that a lot of combat plane ever built actually never saw combat. Lets just cancel F5-E and remove ka-50 then :P i wonder if usa ever used their f14 in the gulf war too. Lets cancel that one :P

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

When i see people raising the terminology and say "I want only COMBAT stuff", i laugh a lot thinking that a lot of combat plane ever built actually never saw combat. Lets just cancel F5-E and remove ka-50 then :P i wonder if usa ever used their f14 in the gulf war too. Lets cancel that one :P

 

Wait, are you saying those aircraft never saw combat?

 

F-5E's have saw combat towards the end of the Vietnam conflict, the Iran-Iraq war (quite extensively), Desert Storm (with RSAF), and numerous other conflicts. It's a fairly well-blooded airframe.

 

The Ka-50s have seen action against Chechen insurgents.

 

The F-14 in US Service was blooded in '81 and '89 in the Gulf of Sidra and saw combat in Desert Storm. It was a pretty active element of the US Navy throughout the 90's.

[NeilWillis]

They did use the F-14s in the Lybian incident, and Iran used them in anger too.

 

Yes, we do need to have better matched opponents as far as we can manage, but in a real world, unless there is a visible mismatch, then the majority of nations wouldn't go to war in the first place, so which is more realistic? Occasions like the Falklands war, you had very uneven technology, with the British fielding Harriers against Argentinian Skyhawks. Before that happened, who'd have come up with a game featuring them as opponents?

 

In the early days of the Korean war, P-51s were up against MiG-15s. There were biplanes against Bf-109s in the Norway campaign, Biplanes raiding Taranto, and helping to cripple the Bismark before it was eventually sunk by warships,

 

Why is it necessary only to fight like with like?

 

That said, we do need to have this issue addressed by the developers, but it will, sadly, take some time, and just because you are outnumbered, outfought, or just out of luck, does that mean you give up? Given that logic, then perhaps fighting against insurmountable odds should never be an excuse for giving up. And just think how much more satisfying it is to win despite having the odds stacked against you. For example, who'd ever consider sailing half way round the world to take back an insignificant speck of land in the South Atlantic while outnumbered, and in hostile airspace?

 

Real life just rarely matches similar weapons, you just have to point whatever you have at the enemy and get on with it.

[QuiGon]

...

 

It is not as easy as you might think to develop advanced multirole aircraft. It is a highly demanding task, so it is quite reasonable for 3rd party devs to not develop a 4th gen multirole as their first DCS module. I too have no use for trainers, but they are a pretty nice first project to get used to DCS development. So I would expect more advanced aircraft in the future.

 

Another thing is available documentation. It's especially a problem with modern multirole aircraft which are still in use and classified.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Real life just rarely matches similar weapons, you just have to point whatever you have at the enemy and get on with it.

 

QFE. In addition, some aircraft prove to have the uncanny ability to keep adapting and stay relevant to an extent.

 

The MiG-21 is a perfect example. Another would be the A-1 Skyraider of the Vietnam conflict. We look back on the Skyraider and feel "Oh, it's an aircraft of that period, so it belongs!" What if we were to make that particular time period modern, again?

 

People would be claiming that the A-1 is "too old" and the like. They'd probably say similar things about the MiG-17, despite both aircraft making themselves quite relevant to the conflict.

[OnlyforDCS]

For example, who'd ever consider sailing half way round the world to take back an insignificant speck of land in the South Atlantic while outnumbered, and in hostile airspace?

 

The Iron Lady apparently did ;)

[TIGER]

Another thing is available documentation. It's especially a problem with modern multirole aircraft which are still in use and classified.

 

With all due respect I dont think that these aircraft are classified.

SU-27SM edition / Mig-23 / F-4E / TornadoIDS&ECR / Mil MI-24 / AH-64A / F-117 / F-5E / A-7E / A-6

[OnlyforDCS]

With all due respect I dont think that these aircraft are classified.

SU-27SM edition / Mig-23 / F-4E / TornadoIDS&ECR / Mil MI-24 / AH-64A / F-117 / F-5E / A-7E / A-6

 

With all due respect you would be wrong about that.

[sobek]

SU-27SM edition

 

Fat chance. :(

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

With all due respect I dont think that these aircraft are classified.

SU-27SM edition / Mig-23 / F-4E / TornadoIDS&ECR / Mil MI-24 / AH-64A / F-117 / F-5E / A-7E / A-6

 

The downed F-117 was in pretty poor shape. Funny how a SAM kind of ruins things. So a lot of it is still classified

 

As for the Su-27SM, which particular one? The SM3?

 

And, there's things attached to these aircraft that remain classified, even after they leave service. IFF is a good example.

[Silver_Dragon]

Actual Russian aircraft's as under the Russian secrets act law, very problematic see one of them at hardcore level into DCS: W without a agreement. Remember ED team has in Russia.

 

The multi-role aircraft require some technology improvements into DCS: W (multi-crew with L-39 test-bed, the ground radar with F/A-18C test-bed), and a long etc not present actually into the main engine. Other problems has some weapon functionality and system no present / implemented, as the IFF, and other long etc issues not present.

 

For that, require a long patience by the community.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Silver_Dragon

[QuiGon]

With all due respect I dont think that these aircraft are classified.

SU-27SM edition / Mig-23 / F-4E / TornadoIDS&ECR / Mil MI-24 / AH-64A / F-117 / F-5E / A-7E / A-6

 

With all due respect you may think so, but you don't know.

Especially the Su-27SM is still pretty new and given the general secrecy in russian military I doubt that they aren't classified. The Tornado ECR is an EW-aircraft and those are highly classified usally.

 

But that's not the point anyways. I just wanted to say there are more reasons to it why a developer chooses a certain aircraft type. It's not just about what we or they want to have.

[Kozmyk]

I don't consider the F-5 to be a true counterpart of the MiG-21.

Although F-5s were used in Vietnam, it was more as a showcase to potential customers, intended as they were for foreign sales.

Proper Vietnam era counterparts would be the F-4, F-105, F-8, planes that had more than a passing acquaintance with the MiG-21.

[lanmancz]

Personally I'm still waiting for my DCS: X-Wing :lol:

[Ultra]

I don't consider the F-5 to be a true counterpart of the MiG-21.

Although F-5s were used in Vietnam, it was more as a showcase to potential customers, intended as they were for foreign sales.

Proper Vietnam era counterparts would be the F-4, F-105, F-8, planes that had more than a passing acquaintance with the MiG-21.

 

Except we don't have the Vietnam era Mig-21, we have a later variant. So I think capabilities-wise the F-5E was a good choice as a rival.

[mattebubben]

I don't consider the F-5 to be a true counterpart of the MiG-21.

Although F-5s were used in Vietnam, it was more as a showcase to potential customers, intended as they were for foreign sales.

Proper Vietnam era counterparts would be the F-4, F-105, F-8, planes that had more than a passing acquaintance with the MiG-21.

 

Mig-21Bis and F-5E has seen plenty of action against eachother both in wars/conflicts aswell as in peace time encounters during interceptions and should very much be seen as counterparts / rivals.

 

And also the Mig-21Bis was never used in Vietnam to start with...

 

But the F-5E was... so one of those is a Vietnam war aircraft and the other one is not...

 

And also the F-5Es that saw action during the late stage of the vietnam war where by the Vietnam Air Force (south vietnam)

 

And the F-5A was the most numerous fighter of the South Vietnam airforce with around 150 F-5A/B fighters.

 

The First F-5Es for South Vietnam where delivered in 1973 and where brand new aircraft diverted to vietnam from an export order intended for iran, Those 18 F-5Es where the first F-5Es delivered with the of the F-5Es made for Vietnam being entering service in 1974

Its hard to find definitive numbers of the ammount of F-5Es South Vietnam received but the number should be between 40-70 aircraft (including the first 18

Even more F-5Es orderd by Vietnam never arrived as by the time they where completed South vietnam had already fallen.

(those F-5Es would become the first F-5Es used as Agressor aircraft in US service)

Edited January 20, 2016 by mattebubben

[Pman]

With all due respect I dont think that these aircraft are classified.

SU-27SM edition / Mig-23 / F-4E / TornadoIDS&ECR / Mil MI-24 / AH-64A / F-117 / F-5E / A-7E / A-6

 

You may not know, But I can assure you that I do

 

At least 5 of those aircraft are classified or have classified systems

 

Pman