Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 5

[ApoNOOB]

Then please let my displeasure with the design be known. ^^ As it is now, it feels like a full time job. I said it before, but doing fuel runs for hours doesn't feel like we accomplished anything. They are empty one restart later anyway.

 

Also, to be honest a refueling run in a helicopter is simply not enjoyable at all. 40-55nm simple straight flying, no real danger since it's mostly way behind the frontline...

 

Also curious how the other trans pilots feel about that. There were a lot of rounds (3hrs cycle) that we did nothing but refuel in a bloody group and still it's never even close enough.

 

The longer the campaign goes on, the quieter it gets when you ask in TS who will be doing the refueling run...

 

edit to clarify: I think the system is a very neat idea, just in the current form it is very frustrating. I also recognize that some refueling (even if deemed boring by some nay sayers^^) should be necessary but I am having a hard time 'adjusting to the current numbers' :)

 

edit2: The idea mentioned in this thread about refineries/oil platforms was interesting, and it may be a lesser bitter pill to swallow if the enemy messed up your fuel situation.

Edited February 26, 2016 by ApoNOOB

[BadHabit]

Recommendation:

When an airbase needs fuel except the fuel system that exists we could spawn fuel truck convoys in some distance from the airport that will be vulnerable from attack planes. Also to make this have a point the convoy could be escorted by some AAA or strella and armor and ofc by players. Another fun mission for rotors and mig-21 and will reduce the work load.

Edited February 26, 2016 by BadHabit

[Sweep]

Recommendation: when an airbase needs fuel spawn we could trigger fuel truck convoys some distance from the airport that will be vulnerable from attack planes. Also to make this have a point the convoy could be escorted by some AAA or strella and armor and ofc by players. Another fun mission for rotors and mig-21

 

I heard somebody mentioning a refuel convoy idea the other night, someone else said it wouldn't work because of DCS's love for moving ground forces...

 

Why not have static convoys, like we have cities and farps, all over the map?

Edited February 26, 2016 by Sweep
>wording

[xcom]

Recommendation: when an airbase needs fuel spawn we could trigger fuel truck convoys some distance from the airport that will be vulnerable from attack planes. Also to make this have a point the convoy could be escorted by some AAA or strella and armor and ofc by players. Another fun mission for rotors and mig-21

 

cannot be done unfortunately, moving ground units create lag.

We really wish the net code could support moving units, they would allow us to do so much more.

[BadHabit]

cannot be done unfortunately, moving ground units create lag.

We really wish the net code could support moving units, they would allow us to do so much more.

That's unfortunate

[Darkwolf]

Also curious how the other trans pilots feel about that.

Same here.

 

Supply is a good idea, but has became so restrictive that we can't even enjoy CSAR or SAM deployment. And that, even during the low hours.

 

I think it would be better to just use the regular ED warehouse function, with limited Weapon / Fuel. You can even throw back in R27 Extendeds and Amraams in very limited quantitys. Then have Heli ops still being a corner stone of the system by being severe with life count, but with the more thrilling CSAR system.

 

Being a red heli driver is quite a pain, red airfield are really far appart and its not like a Refuel run takes 10min.

[Frostie]

The refuelling work has to be done or the frontline airbases suffer, this works well in my opinion, there is no hardship where you can't take an aircraft, period, it is more a hardship that you can't take an aircraft closer to the front. If fuel supplies were easier to manage this crisis of logistics probably wouldn't exist which would make it a trivial unnecessary role. Maybe it needs fine tuning though especially when you consider server crashes etc.

[Coxy_99]

Recommendations on the fuel system:

 

1) Add more fuel to the crates

2) If not 1, then please reduce the fuel used from aircraft spawn or whatever to 10

3) If neither 1 or 2, can you remove the fuel system?

 

I agree with sweeper add a little more fuel to crates.

 

For example i spent last Saturday from 8.30 until 3pm fuel running all day, By the time our guys took off the airfield's were empty, The server crashing also does not help either because, The guys have to re spawn back into an aircraft which takes more fuel.

[NaCH]

cannot be done unfortunately, moving ground units create lag.

We really wish the net code could support moving units, they would allow us to do so much more.

 

This is a huge disappointment!! having to manage troops with CA module could be awesome on this kind of campaigns.

[IASGATG]

I dunno if it's been posted before or what, but I'd like it confirmed that the repair crates don't actually repair airfields?

[BadHabit]

Right now the server is 15 blue to 40 red pilots. Is this OK? Shouldn't there be a limit of 30 on either side?

[Sweep]

I think blue could use more Euro players next round, but I don't think the player count limit is a good idea.

[Tibet]

And Red needs more US Players... its a cyclical argument at this point... I don't personally like the idea of player limits per side either... but if it drives people to contemplate switching factions in the following rounds it maybe something worth experimenting with.

[Crash_Horror]

Updated desktop app

 

Blue Flag desktop application updated to 1.212

 

 

Prior versions will soonish stop working due to server changes.

Update naou!

 

P.S. GO redfor GO! :chair:

[marluk]

Some ideas:

 

1) Refueling problem. Maybe it will be good to add some number of AI choppers that will do refueling runs? So there will be less need for chopper pilots. I tried few times and it is really boring.

 

2) Maybe little larger amount of preloaded amount of fuel could be convinient. Refueling Su-27 takes pretty long time to wait. Maybe 5 instead of 2 for Su27.

 

3) I would really love to see Tacview records in the end.

 

4) Also are you going to calculate score for every player? It would be cool.

 

Thanks guys for great MP campaign!

Edited March 2, 2016 by marluk

[ralfidude]

You guys had a very nice thing going but this warping around has absolutely ruined the AA aspect of it all. I can no longer do support in the air. It's just damn near impossible. AG is the only thing left because I'm at least shooting at a stationary target that won't warp as soon as I launch a missile at it. It is absolutely hideous right now and it's a real damn shame.

[D4n]

Yeah, terrible warping currently.

[Toxic]

Wrapping is still so bad it's hard to do any type of air to air

[Bearly Koalified Tu-95]

Wrapping is still so bad it's hard to do any type of air to air

 

Just sacrifice a goat to ensure your missiles stay on course :3c

[gregzagk]

Just sacrifice a goat to ensure your missiles stay on course :3c

 

[Frostie]

Felt it last night, having touched down the server crashed before I could unload fuel. :crash:

[Tello]

The warping sure is strong this Saturday morning. No joy for anyone.

[Bestandskraft]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but would it be possible to implement sling loading on the Blue Flag server?

 

For example, heli pilots could transport one crate inside the heli, and additionally another crate via sling loading.

 

This would at the same time make transport jobs more interesting, and might also serve to mitigate the fuel shortage.

[104th_Maverick]

The warping sure is strong this Saturday morning. No joy for anyone.

 

 

I've stopped flying Air to Air in the last 1.5 hours of the mission because of the Lag and warping.

 

It really is no understatement that it has ruined the A2A side of the event. You don't need skill anymore to make kills... its just a total lottery if you get hit or not.

The warping happens every single round without fail!

 

Many Blue A2A pilots have given up on the campaign simply because of the warping.

[Hansdampf]

Also curious how the other trans pilots feel about that. There were a lot of rounds (3hrs cycle) that we did nothing but refuel in a bloody group and still it's never even close enough.

 

I definitely share your frustration with the current fuel supply system. In the current campaign it feels like I spent more than 50% of my time doing fuel transports and I am really tired of it. There is so much more exciting stuff one could do instead of these flights…

 

However, what bugs me the most about the current system is the extreme imbalance which results from the distances between red and blue airbases especially in pak3 and pak6. It is easy for blue to keep Tibilisi/Soganlug/Vaziani refueled and keep pushing into pak3. On the other side it takes quite a significant amount of choppers to keep the red airbases in pak3 refueled. Assuming reasonably balanced teams red will always lose pak3 because a: we run out of fuel and cannot field any defense or b: too many people have to do fuel transports and we get outnumbered.

 

Of course I am aware that also blue has to refuel the bases in pak3 after conquering them. However, since blue cannot spawn F15s from there the fuel consumption is probably far lower and the airfields play a less crucial role…

 

 

Some things which could improve the current system would be:

 

- Allow Su25s and A10s to do fuel transports (as mentioned earlier by someone else). Just temporarily until C130s and Antonovs will be introduced as flyable aircrafts… (would be awesome... but will it ever happen?)

 

- Make the amount of fuel being transported depend on the distance travelled (for example 50 fuel/km). So if you bring a fuel crate to an airbase 10 km away you transport 500 fuel while a transport over 100 km gives 5000 fuel. I don’t mind flying back and forth between Krasnodar C and P ten times to get them refueled fully… but doing the same between Nalchik and MinVody would definitely drive me nuts…

 

 

Anyway, I would prefer a different fuel supply system which does not depend on chopper flights as main source of fuel. A while ago I posted the idea of a static fuel supply but unfortunately only ApoNOOB recognized the beauty of this system (thx mate!). Still want to promote the idea once again:

 

Since fuel transports by AI convoys or planes are apparently not an option how about some kind of “static fuel supply”:

Distribute a certain amount of refineries (or oil rigs or whatever) over the map (say 5 for each coalition). Every working refinery in the hand of on side provides a certain amount of fuel (e.g. 1/min) to all airports of the corresponding coalition. That means at the beginning of the campaign every airport has an income of 5 fuel per minute (equal to one new plane every 10 minutes). By destroying the enemy’s assets one could reduce their income (and by conquering increase the own income).

Additional fuel transports from refineries or less used airports to the front should be possible in case an airport on the frontline runs out of fuel. But these fuel transports should be some emergency measure rather than the main fuel income…

 

I think it could really add to the whole campaign. Besides of having additional objetives to defend/conquer/destroy it also allows the tactic of denying fuel and drying out the enemy team (which I think played a role in every modern age conflict since ww2).