Community A-4E

[Gladman]

Now that looks like fun!!!

[SkateZilla]

I just wanna super echo to shoot down tomcats in a top gun campaign :-)

[Farlander]

I just wanna super echo to shoot down tomcats in a top gun campaign :-)

 

It's gonna try it's best to make you fail. AIM-9B's and a gun that isn't known for reliability. Maybe we should just model the gun constant jammed for realism.

[Hook47]

Love me some gun pods! Finally some on the BluFor side!

[Pikey]

forgot to say seasons greetings to the A4 team and lots of success for the new year! Great looking progress, ASM is looking wicked!

[gospadin]

forgot to say seasons greetings to the A4 team and lots of success for the new year! Great looking progress, ASM is looking wicked!

 

Thank you!

--gos

[mattebubben]

Has there been any confirmations so far about what Weapons we will and wont see with the A-4E?.

 

For example how big is the chance of us getting the AGM-45 Shrike?

[SirBunker]

Has there been any confirmations so far about what Weapons we will and wont see with the A-4E?.

 

For example how big is the chance of us getting the AGM-45 Shrike?

 

The way I've understood it is that the DCS SDK is required to create guided weapons, and that's only available to the licensed 3rd party devs.

[gospadin]

Has there been any confirmations so far about what Weapons we will and wont see with the A-4E?.

 

For example how big is the chance of us getting the AGM-45 Shrike?

 

I will publish a full list of supported weapons in the next few weeks.

 

As SirBunker said, we do not expect players will be able to use the AGM-45 Shrike. It should, however, work for AI pilots.

 

--gos

[Tirak]

Gos, you said that without the full SDK you can't allow for lock on indications, so things like a Sidewinder growl and the like. I want to ask though, does that prevent lock on in general? Even without the growl, would a sidewinder be able to lock to a target if fired from the Skyhawk? And on a slightly similar vein, would the Shrike be able to lock onto a radar even if there was no growl for it?

 

I ask because if I recall correctly, Shrikes had to be set up on the ground to go after a specific target, and even then the only indication was a growl like the Sidewinder gives. If the weapon can lock on, even without indicating that it has, or could lock on after launch, that would still be very worth it on the player side, even if it would mean making quite a few Shrikes coded to attack different kinds of targets.

 

Now of course this wouldn't be very accurate, but Shrikes weren't useful outside of like, 10 miles anyway, and if the RWR works, then that'd be more than enough... Speaking of which, have you guys figured out if the RWR will work?

[gospadin]

We're still experimenting with the SSM targeting limitations. I don't know yet what we'll be able to get functional, and we've made no RWR progress at this time.

 

It's safest to expect that the Shrike will not function properly. If we have a breakthrough, believe me, we'll let people know.

[cubanace]

you guys have done an amazing work! with this Mod, ED should grant you guys the SDK to make this even more Epic.

[NineLine]

you guys have done an amazing work! with this Mod, ED should grant you guys the SDK to make this even more Epic.

 

I like how they are starting out, they are probably learning a ton, and maybe they can get to a point where its at a level to approach ED.

[uboats]

Gos, you said that without the full SDK you can't allow for lock on indications, so things like a Sidewinder growl and the like. I want to ask though, does that prevent lock on in general? Even without the growl, would a sidewinder be able to lock to a target if fired from the Skyhawk? And on a slightly similar vein, would the Shrike be able to lock onto a radar even if there was no growl for it?

 

I ask because if I recall correctly, Shrikes had to be set up on the ground to go after a specific target, and even then the only indication was a growl like the Sidewinder gives. If the weapon can lock on, even without indicating that it has, or could lock on after launch, that would still be very worth it on the player side, even if it would mean making quite a few Shrikes coded to attack different kinds of targets.

 

Now of course this wouldn't be very accurate, but Shrikes weren't useful outside of like, 10 miles anyway, and if the RWR works, then that'd be more than enough... Speaking of which, have you guys figured out if the RWR will work?

 

Without SDK, you cannot lock the target even with the IR missile. But fortunately, with IR missile, you can put the target around the longitude axis of your aircraft, and enforce a shot. Subsequently, if you are lucky, the missile will automatically find and track the target. Something similar to Su-25T Mode 8 for R-60 without the locking buzzing

[cubanace]

I like how they are starting out, they are probably learning a ton, and maybe they can get to a point where its at a level to approach ED.

 

 

True,you make great point!.

[Tirak]

Without SDK, you cannot lock the target even with the IR missile. But fortunately, with IR missile, you can put the target around the longitude axis of your aircraft, and enforce a shot. Subsequently, if you are lucky, the missile will automatically find and track the target. Something similar to Su-25T Mode 8 for R-60 without the locking buzzing

 

Could such a LOAL system also work for Shrikes?

[gospadin]

Could such a LOAL system also work for Shrikes?

 

LOAL?

 

We don't know what we will or will not be able to make work without any documentation. All we know is what we know. =P

 

--gos

[SkateZilla]

LOAL = Lock On After Launch.

 

The Best Path is to Continue to Develop as Normal, and Round off a Stable Complete Module to Use as Proof of Concept to Apply for a 3rd party License w/ E.D.

 

By "Complete" I mean:

-External Model

-Cockpit Model

-Flight Model

-Systems Coding

 

That would be a "Complete" Proof of Concept, and a great starting point for applying for 3rd party access/status, etc.

[Tirak]

LOAL = Lock On After Launch.

 

The Best Path is to Continue to Develop as Normal, and Round off a Stable Complete Module to Use as Proof of Concept to Apply for a 3rd party License w/ E.D.

 

By "Complete" I mean:

-External Model

-Cockpit Model

-Flight Model

-Systems Coding

 

That would be a "Complete" Proof of Concept, and a great starting point for applying for 3rd party access/status, etc.

 

As far as i know there's no intention on making this project an official 3rd Party Module. It's a passion project and a bit of an audition piece, but I would assume they don't have the funds set aside for a new company, sought legal counsel for licensing the project, how or advanced flight model coder to do so. It would be nice if ED made the SDK a little more flexible to encourage projects like these, but those of us interested are just spitballing ideas to see how much can be fudged with what is available.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Tirak

[cubanace]

i have an idea and it is actually stupid but i rather say it and see if its possible, is it possible to use a missile data lets say the aim-120 and code it in a way to make it behave like the shrike and hit ground targets? was the shrike fire and forget or did the radar needed to be pointed at the target? with out the SDK we are all limitedm i still dont know how i am going to make my new missiles work on the pak fa, i can use the r-77 and normal missiles,but theres are other types that are not in game.

[uboats]

Could such a LOAL system also work for Shrikes?

 

not tried yet. It depends on how DCS kernel is implemented.

[archimaede]

i have an idea and it is actually stupid but i rather say it and see if its possible, is it possible to use a missile data lets say the aim-120 and code it in a way to make it behave like the shrike and hit ground targets? was the shrike fire and forget or did the radar needed to be pointed at the target? with out the SDK we are all limitedm i still dont know how i am going to make my new missiles work on the pak fa, i can use the r-77 and normal missiles,but theres are other types that are not in game.

 

Yes you can use the code of a missile for another missile. The problem is the targetting code (the one that specifies the seeker head).

 

Right now, if using an anti radiation head, it doesn't work when fired by the player, it only works with the AI. It seems that you have to have a lock on before launch, which is not realistic for the A-4. Meanwhile the AI uses a fake SU 25T avionics to give it that lock before launch capability that is sadly necessary to fire an anti radiation missile.

 

IRL, the shrike was more or less pointed in the general direction of the target and hopefully it would find its target itself and hit it (and that didn't happen often, the success rate was fairly low). This is not something we can simulate in DCS right now.

[cubanace]

Yes you can use the code of a missile for another missile. The problem is the targetting code (the one that specifies the seeker head).

 

Right now, if using an anti radiation head, it doesn't work when fired by the player, it only works with the AI. It seems that you have to have a lock on before launch, which is not realistic for the A-4. Meanwhile the AI uses a fake SU 25T avionics to give it that lock before launch capability that is sadly necessary to fire an anti radiation missile.

 

IRL, the shrike was more or less pointed in the general direction of the target and hopefully it would find its target itself and hit it (and that didn't happen often, the success rate was fairly low). This is not something we can simulate in DCS right now.

 

understood.

[ESAc_matador]

Yes you can use the code of a missile for another missile. The problem is the targetting code (the one that specifies the seeker head).

 

Right now, if using an anti radiation head, it doesn't work when fired by the player, it only works with the AI. It seems that you have to have a lock on before launch, which is not realistic for the A-4. Meanwhile the AI uses a fake SU 25T avionics to give it that lock before launch capability that is sadly necessary to fire an anti radiation missile.

 

IRL, the shrike was more or less pointed in the general direction of the target and hopefully it would find its target itself and hit it (and that didn't happen often, the success rate was fairly low). This is not something we can simulate in DCS right now.

 

Wouldnt be possible to lock the target automatically, 1 second before firing?. I mean, you press the fire button, the calculations are made to see if is there any SAM in parameters, and then this is locked on, and fired. You only need to point at. I think, this could work. You can fire sidewinders without locking on the target too.

[gospadin]

Wouldnt be possible to lock the target automatically, 1 second before firing?. I mean, you press the fire button, the calculations are made to see if is there any SAM in parameters, and then this is locked on, and fired. You only need to point at. I think, this could work. You can fire sidewinders without locking on the target too.

 

No, they don't behave the same to my knowledge. Short-range IR missiles are always seeking, whether you tell them to or not. This is built into ED's engine.

 

Thus far, the anti-radar locking/targeting mechanism is unique to the Su-25T. Once the Hornet is available, we may see a more generic architecture. In all likelihood though, the capability would not be exposed to SSM (Lua) mods.

Edited January 10, 2017 by gospadin